Miraculous Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir - Series Talkback (Spoilers)

[LUNI_TUNZ]

Another thing we finally learned from today's episode: Chloe's "sidekick" is named Sabrina. That's a long time to go without a name.

There are huge problems from using the "monster of the day" formula. The first question I have is how can the villains come back? For a show that relies so heavily on stock footage, one would think recurring villains would be a given, to save money and time in production especially. And because Hawk Moth only uses one akuma at a time (except for TImebreaker), multiple villains showing up at the same time is out too. All the episodes so far are named after the villain of the day. And even in an episodic series, I feel it is possible for Hawk Moth to narrow down who Ladybug and Cat Noir are, especially after all the repeated battles. But unfortunately, he'll be the standard fare "Dr. Claw" type, the guy who is always behind-the-scenes but doesn't do much of anything, only here he doesn't know the identity of the two superheroes going up against him.

Sailor Moon relied heavily on Stock Footage, and outside of the people siccing the monsters on the people, none of them recurred.

 

[Tommy Lawson]

Sailor Moon relied heavily on Stock Footage, and outside of the people siccing the monsters on the people, none of them recurred.

But this isn't Sailor Moon, and IMHO, there is no faster path to irrelevance for a new IP than to imitate something else without offering anything new to differentiate it from what came before. Why should anybody watch Miraculous if Sailor Moon did it before? Recurring villains then would instantly make it different from Sailor Moon then, and we've already heard about this show's similarities to Pretty Cure. In this show, if they chose to, the Ladybug fix at the end might not actually be a fix at all, but only a temporary "Band-Aid" solution, because the underlying problems that caused it in the first place are still there. For example, I could still see Aurore from Stormy Weather getting upset again in another contest, becoming jealous of the next contestant, and getting re-akumatized because her upset emotions from losing the contest were not dealt with the first time.

 

[Neo Yi]

Okay, caught both "The Pharaoh" and "Lady Wifi." There is one problem both of these episodes share and it adds to the major flaw of the show: there is no feeling of danger. Whenever Alya is in anyway incapacitated (kidnapped and transformed into a villain respectively this time), Ladybug never feels any emotional angst that her best friend is in peril. There's a point in "Lady Wifi" where Tippi ominously tells Marinette that she has to fight her best friend. Marinette doesn't sulk and take this, but declares she's going to save her friend. A noble attitude, but one rifled with the wrong kind of emotions. I wished we had scenes where Marinette feels bad that her friend has been kidnapped/turned into a baddie, I wished Marinette tried to reach out to her friend, I wished for some kind of emotional reaction instead of the same song and dance. Instead Alya is treated like any other random Person Of the Day and that really kills both these episodes.

That said, "The Pharaoh" is intense. There is a genuine sense of emergency as Ladybug and Chat Noir work their way to stop Alya from being sacrificed (through a portal that I am honestly baffled if it would have revived the Pharaoh's dead lover.) I am also in love with Alya's entire attitude throughout the whole thing ("I am totally kidnap-worthy!") Both episodes show she's a very tenacious fellow and her go-getter personality can have some interesting clashes with Marinette when it comes to her and Chat Noir's secret identity.

I also respect Chat Noir's decision to leave Ladybug's civilian identity alone as much as he wants to know. I'm not particularly sure why either kids don't reveal who they are to each other, but presumably it's just to play the ol' superhero appendage of "Don't Give the Villains Leverage To Use Over Them." It would give Hawkmoth a harder time to score the Miraculous Stones if either one didn't know who they were outside of their superhero forms.

EDIT: Oh, right. And I really like the Pharaoh's look. Having him change mask based on what Egyptian God he's calling is a neat detail.

 

[Light Lucario]

That's a really good point about the lack of danger. While it's probably good that Marinette didn't get too depressed over fighting Alya, mainly due to how we haven't really known these characters long enough for that kind of conflict to really be effective as it could be, it was pretty bad that she was treated just like all of the other villains of the week. It should be a bigger deal for Marinette, but it really wasn't. Talking about how she's going to save her best friend instead of fighting her does show how upbeat and positive Marinette can be, but it also just made the situation lack drama and intensity. That's another huge drawback of the episodic format. There's very little conflict and danger because everything, aside from the romance, is tied up nicely by the end. There's just no long lasting consequences from each episode. That can work for awhile, but a whole series or season like this really won't work too well.

I could kind of go with not wanting to give the villain leverage against them if they were in the dark about their secret identities, but they never explained why that was the case. They just said that no one can know who they are. I would have been more okay if they explained why since otherwise, it just seems like they're doing so to keep the romance drama in tact.

 

[Mr. Daniel]

I find it interesting what most of posts on this forum are from moderators. Not saying that it's a bad thing, just pointing that out.

 

[Destiny of Awe]

I've been following Miraculous quite some time now, and I watched many of the episodes in the original French (with English subs) way before the series aired on Nick. For the longest time I put the show on a pedestal, mostly based on the pretty exceptional CGI and the romance dynamic ( <_< >_>) Now, I tend to avoid dubs and Miraculous was no exception. I watched two episodes in English and the line delivery and the actual dialogue range from meh to pretty bad (Bryce Papenbrook as Adrien/Chat Noir? Seriously?) However, I suppose the English dub did show me (or rather, convinced me of) some problems with the show, many of which were already brought up by people in the thread so forgive me for possible repetition. (Also I tend to switch from topic to topic without realizing so sorry if you have trouble following along)

Of course, the show is pretty much an offshoot of the magical girl genre of action cartoons so formulaic episodes are to be expected, and Ladybug definitely isn't an exception. I generally dislike shows with episodes that follow a formula so I guess prejudice plays a role in my overall dislike of the show's redundant nature. However, in the case of Miraculous, I feel like Chat Noir and Ladybug's interactions are the light on the horizon, because they don't fall into any general niches or archetypes as characters in my opinion. More on that later. Besides that, I think the true problem with the format of the show lies in the villains themselves.

I find the way villains are handled to be very lackluster. The powers bestowed upon them by Hawk Moth range ridiculously, from control over the Egyptian gods to control over...pigeons. Let's not even begin to talk about Hawk Moth himself. I mean, the guy stands in a dark room full of butterflies while waiting for someone to get their precious feelings hurt. I can't help but stifle a laugh every time he appears on screen. I like the idea that the Akuma can affect Marinette and Adrien's friends (Lady Wifi and The Bubbler, for example) but I feel like more like could've been done with it. For now I just eagerly look forward to the moment Ladybug and Chat Noir come to save the day, which leads me to probably my favorite part of the show.

Like I mentioned, Ladybug and Chat Noir's interactions hold my interest because for the most part, it's not the same thing every time. This may stem from the fact that I've seen episodes that haven't aired in the U.S. so I won't go into detail due to possible spoilers. I just feel like the way they act around each other isn't...limited by the overall formulaic nature of the show, you know? Ladybug doesn't let her disinterest in Chat Noir distract her from fighting the monster of the week, and the same goes for Chat Noir too. They are a competent team that recognize when it's time to act. I also enjoy seeing how their personalities change when they're superheroes. Marinette goes from klutzy and excitable to level-headed and responsible, and Adrien goes from shy and meek to brash and outgoing. Yeah, it does fit into that cliche where the heroic alter ego of a character is "better" than the character themselves in a sense, but the romantic subplot (if you can call it a subplot) brings this dynamic into a new perspective.

The animation is pretty stunning for a CGI-animated series aimed towards children. There is the problem of reusing stock scenes and whatnot (I don't count the transformation scenes since, you know, magical girl) The backgrounds and sets could use some work but for now I'm not complaining too much.

I do have some stray observations such as:
-STALKER MARINETTE. I DON'T LIKE STALKER MARINETTE. From the very beginning I was rather unnerved by her crazed obsession with Adrien. I mean, yeah, it's for kids but it's still creepy.
-The phrases are pretty cringey in the English dub, lol. "De-evilize?" "Spots on?" "Bug out?" Let's not forget "My Ladybug" as opposed to "My Lady."
-I hope something is done with Chloe. I can't stand popular girls being jerks for the sake of being jerks.

And there's my convoluted and pretty much incompete analysis of the show so far. I have a feeling that the series will improve in the (CONFIRMED) second and third seasons, so my fingers are crossed for the time being.

 

[Light Lucario]

I think that the dub cast is pretty fine. It probably helps that I've only seen clips of the series in French before, so I don't have anything to really compare it with, but the dub is at least passable. I kind of like hearing voice actors that I'm more familiar with through anime dubs here, even though it took me forever to recognize Adrian/Cat Noir's voice actor.

As for the dynamic between Ladybug and Cat Noir, I think that it can be nice and they are a good team, but I don't know if that would rank that high for me. It's a nice feature, but I'm not sure if it would be one of the highlights of the show. I agree that the villains can be pretty weak and they really need to do something more to make it the situations more dangerous. I'm really hoping that they'll change up the status quo before the second and third seasons. This show has potential, but keeping the episodic format for a long time is really going to hold it back, especially when it already feels like that not even ten episodes into the series.

 

[Tommy Lawson]

Nickelodeon can't seem to decide which other channel to air Miraculous reruns on. First, there was TeenNick for the first 4 episodes, then today they aired episode 5 on Nicktoons. Only a "coming up next" graphic was used to promote the Nicktoons airing in the Fairly Oddparents episode before it.

Additionally, I don't think there was any promotion last week on the main Nickelodeon channel for Miraculous in the Rabbids episode that aired before it. Could Nick be losing interest in Miraculous already?

 

[Light Lucario]

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. They've never had a good track record with third party shows and they were pretty quick to put it on Teen Nick. I haven't seen promos for it on Nickelodeon, but I don't watch the channel that much anymore either.

 

[Mandouga]

So, I just saw the real second and third episodes (according to The Futon Critic*), and while I don't know about "The Evilustrator", I felt that with "Lady Wifi", they weren't even trying. Oh sure, I knew that Chloe was "The Libby", but did they have to go in the "My father is your boss, and if you don't do what I say, I'll have him fire you" direction. In other words, this never should have happened. The frustrating part is that if it did, we wouldn't have an episode. I really hope this doesn't become a problem later on in the show. Oh yeah, I also didn't like that sarcastic non-reveal they tacked on at the end.

In any case, as episodic as this show is, one way or another, something has got to give:

-Marinette and Adrien learning each others identities?
-Hawk Mouth having a large role
-Learning his origins?

Whatever happens, I really hope they don't "tease" something only to turn it into an unreveal later. There's no two ways about it. Either they want to go somewhere with those possibilities, or they want us to decide for ourselves what happens. I don't know about anyone else, but I personally don't like having a show's collective tongue being stuck out at me. IMO, it's not cleverness or wittiness or anything like that, it's just hypocrisy, and possibily even sarcasm, but I digress. The point is, this show does have potential, but I feel that if it teases (major) plot development only to go to back to the status quo*, it might not be so much "wasted" potential as it might be potential that's simply ignored (for lack of a better word). Oh, and of course, assuming that everyone is supposed to be French, the English dub better not portray Marinette (or any other characters for that matter) as being "exchange students" (i.e., from America), or else, that's it...

*For instance (spoilers just in case):

Spoiler

Marinette and Adrien learning about each other's identities only for some kind of mind wipe to happen to them.

I also think The Futon Critic messed up. I think that "The Evilustrator" is the third episode since it references Lady Wifi at the beginning.

 

[Ghostbuster]

According to Nick.com, The Evilustrator is episode two:

http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/miraculous-tales-of-ladybug-and-cat-noir-102-full-episode.html * (the number (102) represents the episode number)

 

[Tommy Lawson]

I also think The Futon Critic messed up. I think that "The Evilustrator" is the third episode since it references Lady Wifi at the beginning.

That opening scene by Nathanael (as captioning spells his name) with Stormy Weather and Lady Wifi teaming up was far more creative than anything Hawk Moth has done so far with his "one at a time" akuma formula! Why can't the main villain be smart enough to figure out maybe he should try more than one akuma at a time to see if it gives him an edge? He only did that in the Timebreaker episode to essentially duplicate an existing power. Two separate villain powers would make more sense. It's too bad it didn't "really happen" though in the context of the show.

In the newest episode, Rogercop, we have a flying car complete with Back to the Future Part II horizontal wheels. That was very odd to see that, since the horizontal wheels weren't really necessary for that scene. And the villain looked like one of those "bad box art Mega Man" characters.

 

[Neo Yi]

"Rogercop" is another run-of-the-mill episode, but it does seem to say Sabrina's submissive personality is something she got from her old man, what with the way Chloe's father rags on him. However I felt the episode's Aesop was a little on the wonky side. They were grasping at straws with the idea that Marinette was accusing the other kids of petty thievery. Yeah, she could have chosen some of her sentences better, but she legitimately was trying to get to the bottom of this and the whole affair felt rushed. Good continuity with Adrien's daddy issues though. It's not the centerpiece of the episode, but little sprinklings like that do add a lot. I dig it.

"The Evilustrator" almost feels like a companion piece to Sabrina's character after. While it isn't anything deep, it does add layers to her character by showing how warped Sabrina's perspective is when she's stuck with Chloe. Poor girl.

I really, really liked "The Evilustrator." The biggest compliment I can give is that it finally went out of its way to mix up the tedious pacing. The average Ladybug episode tends to focus its first half on Marinette's civilian life and any Life Lessons she's going through at the moment; the second half switches to the Ladybug and Chat Noir action with any issue resolved at the last minute. So I loved that "The Evilustrator" attempted to wash away that formula by giving Art Boy (his name escapes me at the moment) his powers super early and forcing Marinette to deal with him without hers. It provides something different and still makes room for some character interaction and development. Though how did Hawkmoth know about Evilustrator's clothing when it was only on his dream prior? Does every individual under his spell subconsciously chose the outfit that best suits their rage? I mean, real answer is "because animation is expensive", but still.

Also, yeah, it's pretty cute Art Boy has a crush on Marinette, but I'm more impressed that Marinette mustered several sentences to Adrien. There is a genuine growth to her time with Adrien because she never would had the courage to talk to him in the early episodes.

There are definitely signs of personal journeys and story arcs, it's just overwhelmed by the bland formula. But it's good seeing little growths in-between.

Also, the drawing of Ladybug at the end is a lovely Easter Egg; they're references to creator Thomas Astruc's early doodles of Ladybug. Sadly, a lot of the covers are genuinely more enticing than the actual show.

 

[Mandouga]

According to Nick.com, The Evilustrator is episode two:

http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/miraculous-tales-of-ladybug-and-cat-noir-102-full-episode.html * (the number (102) represents the episode number)

Nevertheless, it references a villain from another episode, so it's the third episode either way.

 

[Light Lucario]

I did enjoy the Evilustrator for shaking up the status quo a bit more. Marinette having to deal with both the villain and Cat Noir without her powers was interesting and the villain had more unique powers. Plus, I kind of liked how she and Adrian were able to interact a bit near the end. I don't know how he couldn't realize that she was crushing on him hard with that conversation, but it was still some progress.

Rogercop really bothered me because of how easily the conflict could have been avoided. I don't know how the government works in Paris, but I'm pretty sure that the mayor can't fire police officers like that, especially when he was ordering the police officer to search through someone's bags without going through legal channels. I just kept thinking he should have sued for wrongful termination and kicked the mayor out of power. He clearly shouldn't be in charge when he's threatening to cut off school funds just over a missing bracelet. There's a difference between being a caring father and being a power-mad dictator throwing your weight around to get anything you want. And he has witnesses and someone video taping the entire event, so it probably would have worked. At this point, the mayor is a more threatening villain than Hawk Moth is, if only because he actually has power over the city instead of turning people in villians.

Marinette accusing her friends of being potential thieves also seemed a bit out of character. It wasn't her intent as she just wanted to make it clear that she wasn't automatically the only one to blame, but it felt like it could have been worded a lot better. It was also confusing how the police suddenly turned on them after Rogercop came into power. I don't think that they were under mind control, so it just seemed strange to have them suddenly turn on Ladybug and Cat Noir like that. The ending also made me wonder how Marinette would explain her disappearance to her parents since it was night by the time she left the scene.

 

[Mandouga]

Just saying, Light Lucario, but that should be "Adrien" (with an "e"). The characters are supposed to be French after all...

 

[Light Lucario]

Just saying, Light Lucario, but that should be "Adrien" (with an "e"). The characters are supposed to be French after all...

I don't see what difference it makes with the characters being French or why you felt the need to make a post just to respond to my typo, but whatever. It takes me awhile to remember how to spell characters' names when I'm watching a new show. Just don't get on my case if I type Adrian instead of Adrien.

 

[Tommy Lawson]

Toy News and The Toy Book both are reporting that Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir toys will be presented at Toy Fair this month in New York City. They are scheduled for a fall 2016 release. I am worried that this will become another "Digimon Fusion" for Bandai, as it is possible Nick may either not be airing Miraculous on the main channel in the fall, or move it to a lower-rated Nickelodeon network like Nicktoons or TeenNick.

There is a new episode tomorrow, Dark Cupid, making its U.S. debut on Super Bowl Sunday, while Miraculous won't air on Valentine's Day itself, which is what the episode description says the episode will be about. The episode has already aired in other places like France, which does make you wonder how much networks care about debuting themed holiday episodes close to the actual holiday they are using? According to Wikipedia, this episode debuted in France on October 29, 2015, completely out-of-season and just before Halloween!

 

[LUNI_TUNZ]

There is a new episode tomorrow, Dark Cupid, making its U.S. debut on Super Bowl Sunday, while Miraculous won't air on Valentine's Day itself, which is what the episode description says the episode will be about. The episode has already aired in other places like France, which does make you wonder how much networks care about debuting themed holiday episodes close to the actual holiday they are using? According to Wikipedia, this episode debuted in France on October 29, 2015, completely out-of-season and just before Halloween!

Nick's airing a "2-day Spongebob and Alvin Marathon" starting on Valentine's day, so CLEARLY there's no room on the schedule for anything else.

That said, I don't think Valentine's is really high on the "Holiday's we care about" scale for networks. It's not a major one like Christmas, or even Halloween.

 

[Mikurotoro92]

what i want to know reguarding this show is why is toei not listed in the credits despite helping out on the show? it just lists the french companys who worked on the show! perhaps it's because toei didn't do enough substantial amount of work to be credited? other then that im not really into this show i don't like "goes to high school & has a double-life" types of shows especially with cartoons or anime!