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  1. #1
    OriginalGagBonke's Avatar
    OriginalGagBonke is offline Fan of 2-D animation.
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    The creator driven era is dead for TV animation according to Cartoonbrew

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    I dont tend to go onto cartoonbrew much but however I got a text message from my older brother who showed me this.
    http://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-com...riven-era.html

    What do you think? Can this mark the end of TV animation for creativity? I got no comment on this.

  2. #2
    CookieS's Avatar
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    Doesn't this always happen? We get bogged down with commercial success stories and many cartoons start to be based off of toys, films, of TV shows. This hits a boiling point until we discover a show that is truly unique.

    I think the concept of the Hub is kind of alarming. It's back to the 1980s when shows were produced to push products. This doesn't mean that the shows themselves have to be terrible.

    I think the article is a bit alarmist.
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  3. #3
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    From what I understand, MLP:FiM is actually pretty good.

    The Hub isn't the end of an era, it's just one channel. Now, if Cartoon Network up and cancelled Adventure Time, Generator Rex, Symbionic Titan, and Regular Show only to replace them with shows like 'Diary of Wimpy Kid: TAS', 'Legoland Adventures', 'Halo The Series', and 'Twilight: Vampires Are Pretty', I'd be a little more worried.

  4. #4
    Dr.Pepper's Avatar
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    Even though I have noticed more TV show/toy based cartoons now then there was 5 or so years ago, I think that it is a bit premature to say that it is the end of an era.
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  5. #5
    GWOtaku's Avatar
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    To be fair, the writer doesn't lay everything at The Hub's feet but rather puts it in the context of a wider narrative, with live action on Cartoon Network being another aspect of it for instance.

    What bothers me about the meta argument is that Amid seems to overlook creator-driven cartoons that do exist like the ones Tobias listed, hand-waving this reality away with the the idea that "idealists" and creators venturing to do original things are only going to decline from this point onward. But the troubling idea as presented there is just an idea, assertion masquerading as fact. To believe this I'm asked to embrace not evidence per se (which is impossible to provide), but a supposedly clear vision of where things are obviously going. Supposedly The Hub, the new kid on the block, heralds a fad that will wash over all the cable networks like an unstoppable tsunami. That's quite an ambitious prediction.

    I also reject the implication that reviving an old property means that by default, little to no creativity can exist. What about Batman Beyond's toyetic origins and what the creators pulled off within that mandate? What about Young Justice taking a very familiar DC Universe and reimagining it in its very early days? Yes, it takes more effort to come up with something brand new, but I think it's very unfair to assume that working on an old property must mean that the staff is just going to phone it in.
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  6. #6
    Spaceman's Avatar
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    Apparently they know nothing about The Hub's upcoming Dan Vs?

    Also, I really dislike how they label Adventure Time as a "hold out" when CN is clearly heading towards the off-beat path with their new comedy originals; they conveniently forgot to mention Regular Show and the upcoming Robotomy.

  7. #7
    the greenman's Avatar
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    This isn't news to me. The first nail driven was the demise of most Saturday morning cartoons by the major networks. Then soon enough the weekday cartoons followed.

  8. #8
    KarlOlson's Avatar
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    To me, it seems like he's complaining that a few people who have done super-creator controlled stuff are taking some pay-the-bills work, and ignoring the reality that the past year has almost been a rebirth of aggressively creator controlled work after a light doldrum in the middle of the past decade. It's no longer a game where either creator controlled or commercial driven animation exists. The bandwidth just on TV is so large now you can have a toyetic network, a creator-oriented network, an anime network and so on. The HUB doesn't kill CN or Nick, and if anything takes the pressure off them by toy companies to run their toy cartoons. Nick and CN can hone in on being more creator-oriented by not being tempted to run the occasional cash in show.

    Besides, having some brilliant animators on those shows is a two-fold benefit to animation. 1. They won't just be crappy toy ads with people like Renzetti and Faust at the helm. They'll be shows for a purpose, but they won't just be 22 minute ads. As it stands, the reaction from our Hub forum has been surprisingly positive so far, and we do have some pretty tricky to please critics. 2. They will foster the next generation of animators, some of whom will get fed up with the creative constraints of the particular genre of animation they're working on, and break out like Timm, Tartokovsky, Antonucci and countless other products of the 1980s did, and this time, rather than having to join a no-budget fledgling network or syndicated block to get heard, they can jump right into a powerhouse with international reach.

    Yes, it's be cool if all art was super creator controlled, but as long as you have toy companies, you have toy cartoons. I'd rather them be directed by skilled animators than talentless hacks.

    Also, I swear that CB loves to call animation dead. For people who care about it so much, they look for any excuse to hold a funeral.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieS
    Doesn't this always happen? We get bogged down with commercial success stories and many cartoons start to be based off of toys, films, of TV shows. This hits a boiling point until we discover a show that is truly unique.

    I think the concept of the Hub is kind of alarming. It's back to the 1980s when shows were produced to push products. This doesn't mean that the shows themselves have to be terrible.

    I think the article is a bit alarmist.
    The point isn't quality of show, but the fact Amid points out that it is pssible that if current trends of studios continue, meaning either "safe shows" or relying on already established franchises, then the creator driven era of TV will die.
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  10. #10
    Kiddington's Avatar
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    The thing that get's me about this article is that he fails to really criticize the biggest roadblock for creator driven animation in the business right now; Nickelodeon.

    I'd place the blame at their feet, before anyone else. Almost every new show they have slated to premiere in the coming months is based off of an existing franchise, with about 50% of that being from Dreamworks. That kind of stuff, right there, is killing creator driven animation, more so than anything CN or the Hub is doing. Heck, CN actually has a lot of creator driven animation going at the moment (AT, Regular Show, Sym-Bionic Titan). He's just mad about the fact that they insist on showing live-action (and really, he has a right to be; that portion of the network doesn't belong), so his opinion of CN is a bit jaded.

    Still though... it's premature and hasty to suggest that creator driven animation is "dead", by any stretch. There are plenty of original ideas in the animation industry that aren't selling toys; he just needs to look harder to find these things.

  11. #11
    Dudley's Avatar
    Dudley is offline <- Watch the cartoon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post
    Apparently they know nothing about The Hub's upcoming Dan Vs?
    Someone did, and said that the show is "script-driven", not "creator-driven".

    People are now splitting hairs, and In my opinion, Amid is, and has often been, full of crap.
    Everyone knew that Hasbro's Hub was going to make shows based on Hasbro's toy property. Anyone with half a brain could've seen that coming. And I personally don't mind either way so long as the show is good. And their airing plenty of shows not based on toys, like Atomic Betty and Batman Beyond. One channel is not going to kill off creator-driven shows. There's still Cartoon Network, and Disney Channel. I'd list Nick, but they are getting a lot of Dreamworks shows.

    Either way, even if it does die, the future's looking bright for animators wanting to make their own thing thanks to the many venues available on the internet. I look forward to the day that becomes a more lucrative venture.


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  12. #12
    Peter Paltridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the greenman View Post
    This isn't news to me. The first nail driven was the demise of most Saturday morning cartoons by the major networks. Then soon enough the weekday cartoons followed.
    Bwa? Saturday Morning was very VERY anti-creator-driven, and it always was, because it was run by network execs whose true interests were in prime time. The ratio of cartoons based on movies on SatAM compared to how many cable's come up with is crazy. There's no comparison. SatAM was WAY worse with this kind of thing.

    Anyway.....it's by Amin Damoola, so it doesn't deserve this much attention. Creator-driven cartoons have been the biggest successes in recent animation history. There's no way they can ignore that entirely.

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  13. #13
    Desensitized's Avatar
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    Batman The Animated Series was made to sell toys. How is that any different than any of the Hub shows? As long as it's good, who cares? Something isn't magically better because one person (but not a writer, they don't count, right?) came up with it. It matters what is put into it.

    Heck, I'd watch The Brave & The Bold before Ren & Stimpy any day.

  14. #14
    Nexonius's Avatar
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    This is yet another reason why I barely even visit Cartoon Brew, which has become a complainin' haven for stuff such as this. I mean sure, a lot of 80s stuff is coming back, but from what I've seen so far with the 80s remakes,is that they're not cheesy as the original series, and if properties like G.I. JOE, Thundercats, My Little Pony and Transformers are still successful enough to have an audience and their respective shows are in a ultra need of updating, then so be it. I'm all for shows getting a reboot, as long as the powers that be get the right people to handle the project.

    Lauren Faust's update of MLP is actually good and not just a guilty pleasure IMO. The 2007 Care Bears series (while not from Hasbro) was a good series as well. The Penguins of Madagasgar (based on the movies) is one of Nickelodeon's best series right now. Scooby Doo!: Mystery Incorporated is the best Scooby Doo series I've ever seen as it takes that acid taste of Get a Clue and WNSD off of my tongue. Transformers: Animated is currently the only Transformers series I ever got into, as I wasn't really fond of the original 1984 series. While Warner Bros. Animation is currently making updates (great updates, by the way), there's Cartoon Network Studios, Walt Disney Television Animation, Nickelodeon Animation Studios, Williams Street, Cookie Jar, Nelvana, and more studios who's churning out lots of original cartoons. The point is, there's been spinoffs and remakes of old characters, comic books and movie franchises since the 1960s, and it's not going to stop anytime soon, whether we like it or not.

    And this is coming from the same guy who praised Cartoon Network Studios back in 2000 for making original "creator driven" cartoons. And I guess that Adventure Time, Regular Show, Generator Rex, Ben 10 and Sym-Bionic Titan aren't original/creator driven?

    Ok, Ben 10 is out of question since Man of Action isn't part of the newer series.

  15. #15
    Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martianinvader View Post
    Bwa? Saturday Morning was very VERY anti-creator-driven, and it always was, because it was run by network execs whose true interests were in prime time. The ratio of cartoons based on movies on SatAM compared to how many cable's come up with is crazy. There's no comparison. SatAM was WAY worse with this kind of thing.
    .
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    Although I'd love to see what they could do with some of the more WTF concepts with creators/writers who weren't under the network's stranglehold to produce a show that's G rated, inoffensive, AND moves products/sells movie tickets.

  16. #16
    CaptainHero's Avatar
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    What about the Adult Swim original animated series?

    Shows like Aqua Teen, Superjail and the like seem to let their creators run amok with creativity.

    And there's shows like Archer on FX that are left pretty much untouched by the network.
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  17. #17
    Leaping Larry Jojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainHero View Post
    What about the Adult Swim original animated series?

    Shows like Aqua Teen, Superjail and the like seem to let their creators run amok with creativity.

    And there's shows like Archer on FX that are left pretty much untouched by the network.
    Yeah, there are still a lot of creator controlled animation.

    It's just that Amid doesn't like any of them.

  18. #18
    Tobias's Avatar
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    All of McFarlane's shows are creator controlled, since Fox pretty much lets him get away with anything and everything between his three shows.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desensitized
    Batman The Animated Series was made to sell toys. How is that any different than any of the Hub shows? As long as it's good, who cares? Something isn't magically better because one person (but not a writer, they don't count, right?) came up with it. It matters what is put into it.

    Heck, I'd watch The Brave & The Bold before Ren & Stimpy any day.
    The reason it matters is because it limits the possibility of creativity from creator driven shows. He never said it's dead, but that if current trends continue, it could die. Meaning that the animation industry could revert itself back to the dark ages of the seventies and eighties where there is no artistic control or imput, and that it would be fueled completely by writers. Not necesarilly bad, but no more memoreable shows. Only ones based off of properties we've seen before with no individual views or creativity, only views that are framed safe by the studio.

    I see this as a strong possibility, especialy with the fact that studios are only looking for flat, edgy, non-cartoony art. I also see the Internet as the future of creator driven shows and properties.
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  20. #20
    Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cognitofalcon View Post
    The reason it matters is because it limits the possibility of creativity from creator driven shows. He never said it's dead, but that if current trends continue, it could die. Meaning that the animation industry could revert itself back to the dark ages of the seventies and eighties where there is no artistic control or imput, and that it would be fueled completely by writers. Not necesarilly bad, but no more memoreable shows. Only ones based off of properties we've seen before with no individual views or creativity, only views that are framed safe by the studio.

    I see this as a strong possibility, especialy with the fact that studios are only looking for flat, edgy, non-cartoony art. I also see the Internet as the future of creator driven shows and properties.
    I'm all for the majority of cartoon shows to be creator driven, but everyone's making it sound like that ALL 80's cartoons were bland and forgettable just because they were network products.

    Some of the 'toyetic' cartoons such as The Real Ghostbusters (The first 78 episodes at least), Pound Puppies (The first season), Jem, Muppet Babies, and a few others were shows meant to push toylines, but those were VERY well written shows that didn't even require toylines to get me to watch them.

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