Does anyone else miss syndication animation...

[Pokejedservo]

Does anyone else miss syndication animation as it was?

Over the recent years its been wondered why FOX went from a known name in animation to barely even there when it comes to that anymore. One of the biggest theories is that things really went downhill when the movie "Titan A.E" bombed in 2000. (And the fact that the Digimon movie also bombed in 2000 didn't help either.) However I also am beginning to think that there is one other reason why FOX hasn't really been themselves lately is because of this...

The weaken state of the concept that is Syndication.

Over the recent years animation has been in syndication a lot less while Cable Channels especially CN get more. However FOX never truly came up with a backup plan for an alternative to Syndication unlike Warner Brothers did with CN. FOX is not even the only one with those kind of problems. Ever noticed that nowadays blocks for CBS and ABC/Disney are just simply reruns of shows you can get on cable. Heck aside from Kids WB during the weekday afternoons the most you'll be seeing in afternoons nowadays are either Talk shows or Soap Operas and the like. (While UPN is nowadays just simply showing Blaxploitive sitcoms unless there one of the UPN channels that actually have the Fox Box.)

Some might say that Syndicated animation deserves to die. And to be honest I can understand that. What with infamously inaccurate dubs like Escaflowne and the like. Heck not even NA animation was completely safe. For starters when Beast Wars became a regular part of Fox Kids' line-up they did all sorts of REALLY stupid edits and thats not even the worst of it. Not too long after the 1st 2 TMNT movies were out CBS had to do all SORTS of foolish alterations to the old TMNT series in its later years.

However do not forget that many highly praised animated shows went on syndication. Before it had its rather foolishly altered version on Fox, Beast Wars used to be indepenedently shown in US syndication and has been highly known as one of the best thing to have happened to Transformers in... well ever. Comic book-based animation also had a great history as well while some flopped such as the one for Fantastic Four others were far from it such as Super Man, Spider Man, X-Men and ESPECIALLY Batman. And keep in mind that not all anime english dubs did poorly after all while fans debated over the dub quality in the 1st 2 seasons of Digimon, many agree that the dubbing in the 3rd season was genuinely good. (Even though a LOT of fans lost intrest by around the 3rd season.) And other a decade ago Saban did a surprisingly great dub of the Dragon Warrior anime series. (And of course there is the satirical classic that is Samurai Pizza Cats.)

There are many reasons why syndication is in its rather unhealthy state. Some may say that FOX relied far too much on Saban but there are plenty more. And of course there is Kids WB that is actually still alive though some wish it isn't nowadays. Astro Boy met with a sadly quick end. The only NA animation with a good fanbase that is still there is Jackie Chan Adventures but the intrest has been considerably dwindling. Shows like Xialon Showdown and Mucha Lucha are not doing that great. And as for anime well there are dubs with mixed feelings like Pokemon and Mega Man NT warrior and the lesser said about the dub for Yu-Gi-Oh! the better.

Oh yes and Prime-time syndicated animation has been going a lot less as well. Which is most likely why Fox still clings on to the Simpsons despite that many fans even a great portion of the cast & crew of the show want it to end. At least the editting done in Family Guy has been significantly less lately recently. (Fortunately in the recent suprise showing of "When you wish upon a Weinstien" had very minimal edits.) The only thing that has been going pretty good lately there is NBC's "Father of the Pride" but even that is rather uncertain.

One could almost wonder if the lack of syndication has been a negative factor to certain Cable Channels. Oh sure for the most part CN seems to be handling it well but ever wondered why Nick is no longer considered to be a truly great channel? Now that a lot more people are more going with Cable then syndication they have to be more "marketably mainstream". Back in the older days Cable use to be considered as a special alternative to syndication. I mean whom could forget the likes of Nick with its original programmings? And various nostalgic treats and new delights from those like the Sci-Fi Channel, USA and the like. Heck a good portion of those "Classic" shows many of us praised are mostly only availible in certain Digital Cable Channels and there is a pretty good amount of them that have been wiped out from US television at all. (At least ABC Family is showing their formerly Fox Kids programs more often.)

So we still have Kids WB but in a more weaker state and there is the good attempt that is the Fox Box. While its not a complete flop it still has a way to go until it can become a true success. Its only on in Saturday mornings (and Sunday Mornings in some areas) and while the anime dubs there are deemed to be better than the one for Yu-Gi-Oh! their still generally deemed to be rather mediocre. For the most part the only show that people really look forward to is the the new TMNT series. And as for time slots well its not great but at least its better than most of Saban's earlier programming in the 6 AM hours. *Shudder* It seems that the only syndicated animation that is for the most part still going strong is PBS animation.

So overall this is my belief on the subject that is Syndicated animation. I dunno about you but things like this make me miss it, how about you?

 

[Terrence Briggs]

A few points to consider:

*Syndicated animation was in the toilet after UPN and WB turned most of the remaining independent stations into affiliates. WB provided their own afternoon lineup. UPN affiliates apparently let the talk and court shows occupy their schedules. Ditto for Fox affiliates, who found their lineups losing out to their cable competition.

*No afternoon slots available? Morning slots on the UPN and WB affiliates were slated for E/I shows in many markets, but the most important factor was the shrinking quantity of available series. Most producers, sensing the trend, opted to sell their stuff to less cluttered broadcasters. Enter Cartoon Network and them.

*Pokemon was the last major syndie hit, and WB swallowed that one up. Strangely enough, it aired as part of many WB affiliates' morning lineups, so no channel chaning was required. Before Pokemon, Timon & Pumbaa was the big syndie show, and even that one had to compete with Nickelodeon. That competition simply wasn't a factor when Aladdin, VR Troopers, and Captain Planet were the most popular shows on syndication.

Fact is: Cable lineups outdraw pretty much every free TV lineup right now, save KWB Sat AM. There's no reason to develop Free TV syndication when cable guarantees you a time slot that no affiliat ever could.

Obviously, my analysis isn't based on picadillos realted to quality, as yours seems to be. For instance, Nick outdraws everyone else in the ratings, regardless of how crappy any of us feels the lineup is.

 

[JDWeil]

Syndication is pretty much a dead issue now. First run syndication was intended for stations that had no network affiliations ut that's all in the past now. Here, in the New York area there are 7 VHF stations and 5 UHF stations and all of them are affiliated with a network. That leaves only cable as an outlet for producers.

 

[Pokejedservo]

Hmmmm.... Very valid points...

But still it cannot be truly denied that the Animation Industry hasn't gone through the near death of syndication unscathed.

However this is all the more proof that one should be grateful towards CN. Just about everyone else has been losing focus on animation their style of it has remained to be very true to the genre itself. Some such as Nick are trying to regain their composure on the subject but still one cannot deny how CN is a good asset to the genre that is Animation itself...

 

[Hordesman]

Cable is a great way to attract households with disposable income. I suspect that's why nearly everything on toy shelves runs on both cable and the networks.

 

[Peter Paltridge]

Here's the biggest loss and it's a gigantic one. Companies REALLY need to think about this:

Every "huge phenomenon" show had its beginnings five days a week. He-Man, TMNT, Power Rangers AND Pokemon made their debuts at enough times per week that kids could easily get into them. Yu-Gi-Oh didn't really take off until Kids WB started running the reruns 5 days a week. Same with Rugrats and Spongebob.

"Just on Saturdays" is NOT good enough and the only REAL way to get kids hooked is to give them weekday afternoon original programming! It may be a long, long time before we ever see a truly fanatical hit again.

 

[RayChuang]

I think the trend away from syndicated cartoons really accelerated when Time Warner was able to get Cartoon Network into the primary Extended Basic cable packages on most cable systems in the late 1990's.

Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised that Disney pushes for the Toon Disney channel to be on Extended Basic service on most cable systems over the next 18 months, too.

 

[Quagmire]

Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon are the key channels to blame for this. Most of America owns a cable box, and most of America will watch these channels more than syndicated ones.

I grew up watching the Disney Afternoon, but that aired on a station in NYC (and probably many other stations across the country) that became affiliated with the WB and would eventually air Kids WB programming.

Power Rangers was a key staple to the syndicated Fox programming and was usually surrounded by some good cartoons, but Disney got the rights, and that pretty much killed Fox because they had grown tired of the poor ratings and switched to talk/court shows.

Just look at what Cartoon Network has done. They got kids hooked into their cartoon cartoons. First Dexter, then the Powerpuff Girls, and now just about any character that you see on Friday nights. Putting those shows on 200 times a day builds a following and got rid of the dependancy for syndication.

Same for Nick, starting with the Rugrats, Doug and Ren and Stimpy during the syndicated era, and then hitting gold over the last 5 years with the Wild Thornberries and Spongebob allowing for a new replacement to morning and afternoon syndication just like the CN has done.

If not for those two channels, we'd probably still be seeing quality animation in syndication.

 

[Pokejedservo]

Very truthful points...

However one way or another I believe such a thing has already bit them back in a way...

Ever noticed that the less syndication has went the more "Marketably Mainstream" Nick has gone? Now that people are giving them a lot more attention than in previous years they've been trying a lot harder to be more "Mainstream" with the viewers.

Now CN on the other hand is doing a very good job keeping up with the viewers with quality programming. However having them being the seemingly only good spot for animation can also be a problem. There is so much animation out there that too much of it can be too much for even CN to properly handle...

 

[Hordesman]

CBS Sat Am- run by Nickelodeon

NBC Sat Am- run by Discovery Kids

ABC Sat Am- Disney Channel/Toon Disney shows

WB- shows also running on CN and non-marketed series with minority leads (secondary minorities are a standard nowadays for marketing but leads are unproven).

Fox Box- Anime and Eurome dubs and the TMNT revival. Think TMNT's the only one with a cable timeslot right now.

 

[livingfruitvirus]

I'm not going to miss it much. Syndicated animation was sub-par quality to be honest. Sure a gem came out every now and then, but some of the stuff that got churned out...Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, Street Sharks, Eagle Riders, BABY HUEY.....not to mention a lot of the syndicators have moved to other methods or have been bought out. One big syndicator, Saban, got bought by Disney and therefore now had access to Toon Disney, Disney Channel AND ABC Family, so they didn't need terrestrial television anymore. DiC tried by teaming with Bohbot Entertainment but that only lasted so long. Remember their Amazing Adventures package? USA picked up some of it. Later then Bohbot tried their own package with BKN with some new original shows, but overall bad promotion and not sticking with a consistant timeslot on multiple stations. For example, our BKN affiliate in Miami WAMI (which has since flipped formats to Spanish TV) played the BKN block starting at 5 freaking AM. Of course it's going to do bad. And WAMI never bothered to promote it on the rest of the network or anywhere else. Now DiC has DiC Kids, one more attempt baby, and I'll bet that's going to die out. Oh, and Pokemon was once syndicated too until WB bought it out of syndication and made it exclusive to Kids WB.

So mostly thanks to cable television's growth, syndicated animation is dead. Terrestrial television is watched by more older adults than kids anyway and stations are realizing they'd do better with more news coverage or syndicated primetime shows or talk. You know how many stations don't play the Fox Box? A LOT.

 

[Chris Wood]

I'm not going to miss it much. Syndicated animation was sub-par quality to be honest.

I must disagree. Syndication always had the coolest shows while most of the network stuff was crap.

Sundicated classics include:
Speed Racer
Star Blazers
Galaxy Rangers
Batman:TAS
Battle of the Planets
G.I. Joe
etc.

 

[Ickis]

I must disagree. Syndication always had the coolest shows while most of the network stuff was crap.

Sundicated classics include:
Speed Racer
Star Blazers
Galaxy Rangers
Batman:TAS
Battle of the Planets
G.I. Joe
etc.

I miss Speed Racer,I wish cartoons were still syndicated.

 

[Tobias]

Syndicated cartoons were the best. They didn't have as many restrictions as a network show had, show you could have REAL fight scenes (G.I. Joe, Transformers, Ninja Turtles are good examples), REAL villains who could actually give REAL death threats (G.I. Joe, Thundercats, Hell, even early My Little Pony eps had villains threatening death and destruction.), and the occasional bloodshed (I just noticed in 'The Traitor, Part 1' on G.i. Joe that Duke's actually bleeding after getting into an accident).

Syndication had more freedom, as evidenced by the 'editing' and 'banning' that's going on over at Toon Disney on their DA shows.

 

[Hordesman]

Syndication had more freedom, as evidenced by the 'editing' and 'banning' that's going on over at Toon Disney on their DA shows.

I think that's just a change in standards and such. Ok, the DA was winding up when tv ratings first popped up.

 

[livingfruitvirus]

Batman:TAS

That was a FOX Kids show.

 

[AdamYJ]

I miss Mighty Max. That's mainly it.

 

[Chris Wood]

That was a FOX Kids show.

It aired on a couple Sunday evenings, then quickly moved to weekday afternoons with the syndicated crowd. I don't remember there being an afternoon Fox block in those days like WB has today.

 

[Conan-san]

The problem is that in Sindication, the likes of Draonball and Sailor Moon utterly suffered (Ok, in the case of Dragonball Z that might arguabley be a good thing). I meen, otherwise, yea. How many stations was POkemon playing before it became WB exclusive?

 

[KarlOlson]

It aired on a couple Sunday evenings, then quickly moved to weekday afternoons with the syndicated crowd. I don't remember there being an afternoon Fox block in those days like WB has today.

There was. Fox Kids started out as SatAM, but then added a weekday afternoon line up to compete with DiC and Disney syndicated afternoon packages. Fox Kids was partially composed of Saban stuff, but also of stuff they had put the money up for like Batman.

Meanwhile, until CN came along and co-opted HB's productive capacity and talent, HB was making stuff for syndication. Heck, Tartokosky, McCracken, Renzetti and Hartman cut their teeth on Hanna Barbara syndicated stuff like Two Stupid Dogs and Tom n' Jerry Kids. Disney was doing afternoon syndication until they merged with ABC, which gave them a solid spot for their first run stuff (which made their syndicated package less interesting,) and it only got worse when they put together Toon Disney and bought Fox Family and the Saban animation library to back it up. Basically, a bunch content and content creators that once had to go to syndication were bought/merged with outlets that could air it directly. Add to that the death of the independent, non-affiliated TV station, and syndication, animated and otherwise, is effectively dead. Even Live-Action syndication is falling in the face of greater affiliation and more cable networks.

Personally, I think were the better for it. CN's has been very bold in some ways with what they've produced in house (Cartoon Network Studios/Williams Street Productions,) what they've funded (IE: a.k.a Cartoon, Soup2Nuts) and what they've aquired (anime, some of which had initially failed in the haphazard world of Syndication, but exploded via CN's consistant, national outlet,) and the general quality of that material is clearly better than the old syndication's average. Further still, their blocked programmming, Toonami, Miguzi and Adult Swim, has not only given a home to home what would either be neglected syndicated material (Family Guy is getting another chance because of AS, Funimation owes CN it's existance because it took on DBZ when no else would) but put forth some very interesting properties that simply never would have turned up on TV in America period (Outlaw Star and Tenchi sure as heck aren't programs Saban, DiC or any other syndication house would have looked at, let alone Cowboy Bebop or GitS:SAC.) The Saban/ABC/Disney combo, though bland, is certainly more reliable in it's ability to provide exposure for series than the random world of syndication at the least. Overall, I think the consistant and national arena of cable allows for a lot more innovation (Samurai Jack is not the kind of property that would have been created in a syndicated environment,) a lot more development of properties (Ed, Edd and Eddy got to where it is today because CN gave them the time to learn the craft and make it all come together, and the result is, is that it's gonna run longer than it probably would have on syndication) and in general, the quality of what's available is of a higher average calibre (there are much less in the way of outright terrible animated series. Crap like the New Kids on the Block Cartoon, Wish Kid and Denver, The Last Dinosaur just don't get made any more. Well, I guess Disney TV animation has actually declined since the 1980s, but everyone else has had to pull their socks up and make atleast passable programs or go out of business.)