Muscular Heroines?????, How do YOU feel about it?????

[JTolliver]

Muscular Heroines???

This is something I really want to get to the bottom of,

Personally I kind of like it, y'know but only if the female character in question is drawn with the right amount of muscle, and I think that's something a lot of people just don't understand, because a woman can be noticeably muscular yet still feminine, I just think people are afraid really,

Y'know cause I really hate when somebody sees a muscular heroine and says something like: "Oh my god it's Arnold Schwarzenegger with boobs" that sort of thinking is just bull crap y'know because another thing about it is that a woman can be very muscular without appearing bulky or manly like govenor Arnold,

For example, I really liked the way Tim Sale drew Catwoman y'know because her muscularity was very much like a ballerina or better yet a female olympic gymnast y'know because she looked very toned and strong/powerful and muscular (delts, lats, six pack etc.) but in a lithe, sinewy way not a bulky way, y'know so she looked very physically powerful and like a woman who could genuinely kick your ass using strength alone, yet she was also distinctively lithe and graceful and feminine, so it was the perfect balance really, and it makes a lot of sense with that character, because I can tell you women in real life who do all the sort of gymnastic/acrobatic stuff that Catwoman does are totally ripped, just watch any women's competitive gymnast event and you'll see what I mean

Another thing about heroines having a bit of muscle tone (in the style of Tim Sale's Catwoman or otherwise) is that it is then GENUINELY convincing when they beat the crap out of a muscle bound thug, y'know everyone's always going on about realistic this and realistic that in comics and then you see some slender, small boned woman, with nothing but soft, half-toned muscles (at the most) beat the crap out of some totally muscular thug,

YEAH, REALLY REALISTIC, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOT

It's the reason I've never liked that Modesty Blaise character, Peter O'Donnel would always go on and on about how Modesty had to be and was really "Plausible", yeah Pete it's really plausible how she had to survive all that crap as a kid (living in the wilderness after WW2 etc.) and then grew up to be a woman who regularly beats the crap out of 200+pound muscle men and a bunch of other stuff despite only ever having the muscle tone of a 13 year old, YEAH that's REALLY plausible Pete NOOOOOOOOOOOOOT

And it's not just lithe muscle, y'know I don't mind when a female character has muscles of a somewhat larger variety, it all depends on the character really, y'know I kind of like Wonder Woman and She Hulk and those kind of Ultra strong femmes to have a bit more than just lithe muscle

So anyway, what's everybodys stance on Muscular Heroines?????

 

[rmarti3926]

I like heroines with petite shapes, like anime girls. As long as they wear the same tights and panties as the other heroines.

 

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

I think if it fits the character, they should be muscular. A character like She-Hulk, Wonder Woman, or Big Barda should have some defined muscle tone to them. A charcter like Kitty Pryde, the Invisible Woman, or Zatanna really shouldn't. Someone like Catwoman, the Black Canary, or Warbird/Ms. Marvel/Binary should probably fall somewhere between. The distinction between a muscular bodybuilder and a muscular ballerina or a gymnast is also a pretty good one, and one that's largely ignored by most superhero comic book artists (though, to be fair, it tends to be ignored on the male side as well).

Maybe later today, I'll go dig out more images, but Art Adams' Ann O'Brien and Matt Wagner's Wonder Woman are a good start for "how to make a woman muscular without making her a man with breasts." Wagner's Trinity has a few shots where you see a Wonder Woman who would slap you and you'd stay slapped.

-- Ed/Ace

 

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I think it depends on the character, as people said, although for Wonder Woman, she's the toughest to balance. She's supposed to be powerful yet still feminine. You can't overdo her and make her biceps bulge out too much. I think Alex Ross' depiction of her in "Kingdom Come" struck the perfect balance between power and femininity. HP Giger's original depiction is also a personal favourite . Lucy Lawless is a good real-life example of this type. She's got a strong, wide frame, but she also has curves and isn't bursting with 'ceps and veins.

I do like how Tim Sale drew Catwoman overall, but I can't say I dig the six pack abs on her. I liked her overall outline but I can see how people disliked her musculature.

What you have to remember is that while most of these heroines should be more like gymnast/ballerinas, gymnast/ballerinas aren't really "muscular". They are athletic, strong and flexible, but still rather lean and skinny on the outside. Their legs, especially their calves, are their strongest muscles, and their stomachs aren't six-packs but more flat and hard.

You also have to remember that most of these heroines have superpowers, with the exception of Catwoman in your list. In reality, Spider-Man should be built like a tank, because he can lift cars and stuff. But he isn't, he's still generally a skinny nerd. So for the most part you can keep these superheroes slim and attractive because, well, this is comics.

If artists want inspiration for athletic-but-not-bodybuilder female forms, they should study Edgar Degas' paintings.

 

[JTolliver]

.

I do like how Tim Sale drew Catwoman overall, but I can't say I dig the six pack abs on her. I liked her overall outline but I can see how people disliked her musculature.

What you have to remember is that while most of these heroines should be more like gymnast/ballerinas, gymnast/ballerinas aren't really "muscular". They are athletic, strong and flexible, but still rather lean and skinny on the outside. Their legs, especially their calves, are their strongest muscles, and their stomachs aren't six-packs but more flat and hard.

Actually I think you'll find that gymnast/ballerinas are in fact VERY muscular, all the muscles on their bodies are toned and defined to the point that you could genuinely call them "ripped" and "cut", it's just that "definition" can (for some people anyway) create the illusion of "bulk", and that's the thing that a lot of people don't understand, female gymnasts are ripped, ripped as hell!!!, six pack abs and everything, it's just that their musculature is lithe not bulky, so their frame and demeanour remains graceful and feminine despite all the cut muscle. Oh and do people also know of something called "female body sculptors" they compete like body builders but their not bulky, their actually built just like female gymnasts.

 

[Binker]

Hey, powerful strong women shows how much comic books don't overshadow females.

WOMEN RULE!

 

[JTolliver]

Oh yeah, and Lucy Lawless was NOT "muscular", she was just unusually tall and big framed for a woman

 

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I never said Lucy Lawless was "muscular", I said I liked her body type for the type of heroine Wonder Woman should be, physically, Keep in mind again she (WW) has super powers, her muscles need not be bursting because powers make it easier for her.

As for ballerinas, I'm close to people who teach them so I know where all the muscles are stressed for that activity. They are hard and compact but not "bodybuilder" types.

What you have to remember also is that when you overdo the muscles like giving them TOO MUCH of a six pack, it reduces flexibility. Being close to athletics, I've learned this. That's why bodybuilders really aren't athletes, because their musculature prevents them from performing acrobatics.

I think you're arguing with me for the wrong reasons. We're not that far apart in our views, but we have different definitions of musculature in comics. I agree with you about the bulk differences, but again, I think there is a limit to how "cut" a ballerina is.

The problem here is that many artists often DON'T draw heroines "lithe and cut" as you said, but more like "Arnold with breasts". I don't think anyone would have a problem if heroines were drawn more like this--http://www.refocus-now.com/Stock/Dance/images/002%20Ballet%20ballerina%20dance%20woman%20movement.JPG

That's what you're arguing for. Lithe, muscular (but not overdone) and strong, and I agree.

But what I see A LOT of in today's comics STILL is this--http://www.bestforminc.com/images/products/152_icon.jpg

And that just isn't what I like. Besides, she can barely move if she's like that! And she's an injury waiting to happen.