Dr. Doom's scars: Your preference

[GregX]

Now, as most of you know, there are contradictory opinions from Marvel over the exact nature of Dr. Doom's scars.

Jack Kirby, Doom's co-creator, was very specific in what he personally had in mind, even though he felt it should never be shown. At one point in the Seventies, Kirby drew his interpretation of what Doom would look like under the mask, giving Doom only "a tiny scar on his cheek." Due to this slight imperfection, Doom hides his face not from the world, but from himself. To Kirby, this is the motivation for Doom's vengeance against the world; because others are superior due to this slight scar, Doom wants to elevate himself above them.

Here is a piece drawn by Kirby himself of Doom's face.

Then, later on, along came John Byrne, who had Doom place the mask on his face before it had cooled, thus truly disfiguring his face. I'll be honest. I never liked this retcon, as I just truly cannot believe Doom would be stupid enough to do that.

Doom is such a fascinating character because of the psychology surrounding the character. He is such an arrogant perfectionist, that this tiny scar ruined him. I think that says it all about his personality and his view of the world.

Ed Brubakker seems to have wisely gone back to Kirby in his "Books of Doom" origin story.

 

[Wonderwall]

I always like the small scar version. Gave him more depth and its always a surprise when someone boasts how they were hideously scarred and it turns out its just a little thing. Makes them even more disturbed.

 

[The Overlord]

Now, as most of you know, there are contradictory opinions from Marvel over the exact nature of Dr. Doom's scars.

Jack Kirby, Doom's co-creator, was very specific in what he personally had in mind, even though he felt it should never be shown. At one point in the Seventies, Kirby drew his interpretation of what Doom would look like under the mask, giving Doom only "a tiny scar on his cheek." Due to this slight imperfection, Doom hides his face not from the world, but from himself. To Kirby, this is the motivation for Doom's vengeance against the world; because others are superior due to this slight scar, Doom wants to elevate himself above them.

Here is a piece drawn by Kirby himself of Doom's face.

Then, later on, along came John Byrne, who had Doom place the mask on his face before it had cooled, thus truly disfiguring his face. I'll be honest. I never liked this retcon, as I just truly cannot believe Doom would be stupid enough to do that.

Doom is such a fascinating character because of the psychology surrounding the character. He is such an arrogant perfectionist, that this tiny scar ruined him. I think that says it all about his personality and his view of the world.

Ed Brubakker seems to have wisely gone back to Kirby in his "Books of Doom" origin story.

I heard that Doom's face was ruined in the initial explosion and the idea of him just having an scar was kinda a later retcon. Besides haven't a few people seen his true face and were horrified by what they saw, which wouldn't be the case if he just had a scar.

Either way, he is still more interesting then Ultimate Doom.

 

[Spideyzilla]

The accident gave him one scar, while putting on his mask before it cooled ruined his face.

 

[GregX]

The accident gave him one scar, while putting on his mask before it cooled ruined his face.

Not according to Jack Kirby.

 

[The Overlord]

Not according to Jack Kirby.

But haven't some people seen Doom's face and were horrified? I think Donald Blake saw his face and based on his reaction it wasn't just a scar.

 

[Shawn Hopkins]

Why'd you make a poll if you are going to take issue with people who prefer the non-Kirby option? You should have just made a topic about how Kirby's version is awesome and Byrne completely sucks.

I do like the tiny scar thing a little better. It fits perfectly with the vanity and jealousy of the second smartest man on earth. But I can buy that once Doom felt his face was "ruined" by that small imperfection, that mark of shame at a failure he knows is but can't accept is his own, he wouldn't care about it anymore and would destroy it further as an act of forever sealing himself off from his humanity in his iron suit. It's not really stupidity, it's that if he can't have it perfectly the way he wants it, he doesn't want it at all or care about it enough to wait for his mask to cool.

 

[AlgeaX]

I think it should be left to the reader's imaginations personally; a few
unanswered questions are good, they give the characater an air of mystery and give the fans something to debate.

 

[Russkafin]

I'm with AlgeaX. I prefer not knowing how bad it is.

 

[Kazuya Prower]

Why does Marvel continue to hide his disfigured face? It can't be worse than Baron Helmut Zemo's horribly disfigured face (which was occasionally shown).

 

[The Overlord]

Why does Marvel continue to hide his disfigured face? It can't be worse than Baron Helmut Zemo's horribly disfigured face (which was occasionally shown).

Because somethings are better left to the imagination.

 

[Jon T]

Not according to Jack Kirby.

The original Lee/Kirby depiction of Doom's origin had Doom putting on the still-hot mask, which might tend to support Cartoonlover's post. Plus, Kirby drew the back of Doom's now clearly scarred head in Fantastic Four #10.

I do like the original single scar idea though, even if it was mostly ignored in later years until John Byrne came along and re-popularized the concept. Someone over at Comic Book Resources started a thread about this very same subject a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Miyamoto Musashi]

Long before Byrne did his retcon there was an issue of what if published showing Doom as a hero who instead believe in Reed. The Watcher starts by giving Earth616 (for those who don't know; Marvel named the world that introduced most/all of their major characters Earth616) origin of Doom as done by Lee & Kirby wearing the hot mask on his face.

In recent issues where Doom learns sorcery; Victor has a couple of scars but his face isn't completely disfigured. Deadpool's face was originally too horrifically disfigured but now it just have some spot's on his skin, so possibly this is what they did with Dr. Doom.

The version I know of Doom is the too brilliant a scientist to make such a mistake. More often believing the one scar and all psycho-logical

 

[GregX]

I heard that Doom's face was ruined in the initial explosion and the idea of him just having an scar was kinda a later retcon. Besides haven't a few people seen his true face and were horrified by what they saw, which wouldn't be the case if he just had a scar.

Not necessarily, I believe if you brace yourself to expect something horrifying and then see nothing, you would be horrified in a "THIS GUY IS GOD DAMN NUTS!!!" kinda way. It would be a shock.

 

[The Overlord]

Not necessarily, I believe if you brace yourself to expect something horrifying and then see nothing, you would be horrified in a "THIS GUY IS GOD DAMN NUTS!!!" kinda way. It would be a shock.

Not really given the context of the scene. Blake is really Thor so its unlikely he would shocked if Doom just had a scar, he wouldn't be the type. . Doom had kidnapped Blake to see if he could repair his face and when he removed his masks Blake exclaimed "its horrible, there's nothing medical science can do for you", he wouldn't have said that if Doom just had a scar.

 

[GregX]

Not really given the context of the scene. Blake is really Thor so its unlikely he would shocked if Doom just had a scar, he wouldn't be the type. . Doom had kidnapped Blake to see if he could repair his face and when he removed his masks Blake exclaimed "its horrible, there's nothing medical science can do for you", he wouldn't have said that if Doom just had a scar.

Again, I believe when Kirby was asked about that, he said Blake was referring to it in a psychiatric way. He said this in an interview once.

Sorry, but Kirby knew what he wanted, and what he was going for. But then, he only created Doom, what does he know.

 

[Ed Liu]

Sorry, but Kirby knew what he wanted, and what he was going for. But then, he only created Doom, what does he know.

Steve Ditko reportedly wanted Spider-Man to be a teenager forever, sort of like a superhero Archie Andrews, which would have robbed us of a number of excellent Spider-Man stories over the years. The differences between Batman as conceived by Bob Kane and what ended up on the page thanks to Bill Finger, Jerry Robinson, and others is also well-documented elsewhere.

And as much as I like Jack's Fourth World comics, I have to admit that he has so many dumped ideas, abandoned plot threads, almost non-sensical elements, and plot twists that seem to have been made up on the spot that it borders on complete incoherence. Kirby was brilliant, no question, but just because he wanted it doesn't automatically mean it was the right thing to do. Sometimes, creators are wrong, but it's no slight against them or the strengths of their work to say so.

The idea that it's just a tiny scar that Doom blows up in his mind into a blemish that he won't allow anyone to see ever again is an interesting wrinkle, and one that's in keeping with a massively and undeservedly over-inflated ego. However, that's really all that a tiny scar would do, and Doom does plenty to establish that massively over-inflated ego in the comics without that particular plot element.

I'm also on the side of, "it's kind of fun not to know." I like the fact that we have no idea who the Phantom Stranger is or who the Hanged Man is in Astro City, and I like the idea that we really have no clue what characters like Doom or G.I. Joe's Snake Eyes really look like under their masks.

-- Ed

 

[Shawn Hopkins]

I love Jack Kirby, but sometimes people can fall too far over into the "Kirby is God" thing and start to think everything he ever did was right and all his own and ignore the positive contributions of his co-creators. Would you, for instance, prefer Kirby's standard superhero vision of the proto-Spider-Man to what we eventually got? This is from an essay on the subject by Ditko.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JpznoEUR-...a7fSU-GWcI/s1600-h/Kirbys_Spiderman_page2.jpg

I've also read that Kirby envisioned the Silver Surfer as basically a cool-looking robot and that it was Stan that gave him a tortured philosopher's soul.

I think things that are added to a character's background should be judged on their own merits. It's not as simple as Kirby=right here, even if he was one of the primary creators.

Besides, as others have said, even though he thought it should have been that way there was clearly evidence before Byrne, even from the Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four, to support the "hideously scarred" theory. If they had really meant to imply that Blake was taken aback that Doom had let such a minor scar warp him, he would have verbalized something clearly to that effect. Old Marvel comics might have been a little more realistic, but they weren't -that- subtle.

 

[Spideyzilla]

Why'd you make a poll if you are going to take issue with people who prefer the non-Kirby option? You should have just made a topic about how Kirby's version is awesome and Byrne completely sucks.

I do like the tiny scar thing a little better. It fits perfectly with the vanity and jealousy of the second smartest man on earth. But I can buy that once Doom felt his face was "ruined" by that small imperfection, that mark of shame at a failure he knows is but can't accept is his own, he wouldn't care about it anymore and would destroy it further as an act of forever sealing himself off from his humanity in his iron suit. It's not really stupidity, it's that if he can't have it perfectly the way he wants it, he doesn't want it at all or care about it enough to wait for his mask to cool.

True. You should just wait, not rant.

 

[Russkafin]

Haven't there been some issues in recent years that show a closeup of Doom where you can see, through the eyeslits of his mask, that his skin is pretty badly burned and disfigured?

Also, someone correct me if I am wrong about this, but didn't they make two versions of the Marvel Legends Dr. Doom figure, with removable mask... one with horrible burns and one with a simple scar?? I can attest to the burned one because I have it, but I am pretty sure there is a small scar version as well.