Unconventional or unpopular opinions you have (re: animation)

[AngusTinMan16]

RE: LT:BIA; bear in mind when a film flops it's not because people didn't like it, it's because they didn't see it. Reviews were OK and so was audience feedback as far as I can tell.

I believe the following were all factors in its underperformance, in addition to those already mentioned:
- The first Golden Collection, and with it the first Spotlight Collection, was released a couple of weeks prior. I believe they comfortably outperformed expectations. A fair number of people probably decided they'd rather buy "the real thing" to keep than take a chance on a seeing a film once. DVD Box Sets were quite expensive back then, but it probably worked out to pretty similar to the cost of say two parents taking three kids.
- That big success aside, the (ugh!) brand had already been in decline for a few years; broadcast wise the Cartoons had been restricted to Cartoon Network for a few years, and merchandise sales had tailed off, both partly leading to and ultimately exacerbated by the Warner Bros Studio Stores closing in 2001. When Space Jam was released in 1996, by comparison, the characters had possibly never been as popular, or at least as profitable
- In the human cast, no Jordon or Lebron-like superstars. Brendan Fraser had been away from mainstream films for a couple of years, and even at his peak, he was a hit and miss proposition; the year of The Mummy he made Dudley Do-Right, a big flop, the year of The Mummy Returns he made Monkeybone, one of the biggest flops ever. To be fair Steve Martin was in a couple of big hits that year, but I guess by 2003 people wanted to see him in bland dad roles rather than over the top comedic performances.
- The teaser was truly awful, and the trailer wasn't great.
- Traditional animation was falling out of favor on the big screen, at least in the US. Those who did still like it might have gone for Brother Bear instead, which, while not on par with 90s Disney hits, still made over 4x as much as BIA.
- Obviously not direct competition but The Matrix Revolutions was also in release and had taken up a lot more of Warners' marketing budget and resources.
- Probably nothing but Dante and Fraser openly talked about not liking Space Jam which may have rubbed some people the wrong way, who knows.

Dante has rarely talked about the film since because it was such an unpleasant production. He has noted that the beginning, middle and end all changed dramatically over the course of production but not necessarily in that order. If you play the PS2/Gamecube tie-in game it actually more closely follows the original plot.

I liked it a lot on my first viewing or two, but a little less after that. Some bits drag and some of the humor feels closer to Animaniacs than vintage LT/MM to me.

Yeah, with all the reasons you posted, it’s no wonder Looney Tunes: Back in Action is considered to be the rise of the decline of Looney Tunes.

 

[Dantheman]

I bet some people didn't realize that Steve Martin's character acting the way he did was supposed to be a callback to the Dover Boys, but that's audiences for you.

 

[John Pannozzi]

I have not seen Enchanted, but I'll take your word for it.

But yeah, I agree with all your points. Thanks a lot, AOL and Jamie Kelner.

Jamie Kelner had nothing to do (directly) with Back in Action AFAIK. There's other bad decisions he's made (mostly regarding Kids' WB and Cartoon Network), but I wouldn't blame this on him.

You may be right about AOL (or more specifically, AOL Time Warner) management having a hand in the executive meddling, though. It's funny that shortly before BiA premiered, AOL Time Warner changed its name back to Time Warner in attempt to refresh its image in light of then-recent corporate upheaval. Though, AFAIK, management stayed the same at the time and it wouldn't be until a few more years later that AOL was spun off from the company.

 

[JMTV]

Jamie Kelner had nothing to do (directly) with Back in Action AFAIK. There's other bad decisions he's made (mostly regarding Kids' WB and Cartoon Network), but I wouldn't blame this on him.

You may be right about AOL (or more specifically, AOL Time Warner) management having a hand in the executive meddling, though. It's funny that shortly before BiA premiered, AOL Time Warner changed its name back to Time Warner in attempt to refresh its image in light of then-recent corporate upheaval. Though, AFAIK, magaemnet stayed the same at the time and it wouldn't be until a few more years later that AOL was spun off from the company.

Okay fair enough.

 

[Fone Bone]

I love Disenchantment. Fully and whole-heartedly. I think it wound up better than Futurama.

 

[Goldstar!]

Sometimes I wish that more fans would be willing to let the shows they like just end. If said show was unceremoniously canceled after a single season or something like that, then sure. Start a campaign or a Kickstarter to bring it back. However, if a show has already been running for 4 complete seasons or longer, has over 100 episodes under its belt and the creator(s) is ready to call it quits, then don't beg for a revival. Futurama doesn't need any more revivals. Teen Titans TAS got 5 seasons (including that sucky 5th season) when it was only supposed to get 4, and yet there are still fans who want another season. Just let it end, already.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

Ironically, it seemed to me that ThunderCats 2011 was trying hard to mimic Avatar: TLA.

Really? I actually thought the 2011 reboot was more like the 2002 reboot of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe if I'm being honest with you.

 

[Silverstar]

Really? I actually thought the 2011 reboot was more like the 2002 reboot of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe if I'm being honest with you.

Hmm, it might have been, I've never seen that show. I just remember fighting off the sandman while trying to watch Thundercats 2011.

 

[Darklordavaitor]

Sometimes I wish that more fans would be willing to let the shows they like just end. If said show was unceremoniously canceled after a single season or something like that, then sure. Start a campaign or a Kickstarter to bring it back. However, if a show has already been running for 4 complete seasons or longer, has over 100 episodes under its belt and the creator(s) is ready to call it quits, then don't beg for a revival. Futurama doesn't need any more revivals. Teen Titans TAS got 5 seasons (including that sucky 5th season) when it was only supposed to get 4, and yet there are still fans who want another season. Just let it end, already.

Some characters and series have the ability to last longer than others. I personally thought that Futurama had a satisfying run on Fox and what I’ve seen of its later episodes never excited me, but at the same time, Mike Judge clearly still has the juices flowing for Beavis and Butthead- the Paramount+ run is nearly as good as the original show and he can keep it going as long as he wants to for as far as I’m concerned.

I do agree that not every franchise needs to run forever. There’s a reason that it’s more likely and practical to see new Looney Tunes content than Terrytoons, for example.

 

[Red Arrow]

Extending others' criticism of obnoxious Western fans of Anime, I'd like to admit that I actually somewhat dislike using the word "anime", at least when using it in English. Use of the term outside of Japan has made it seem like animation from the Land of the Rising Sun is its own genre, which is a rather skewed point of view.
Like, "anime" isn't even a word that originated from Japan or its neighboring countries, it's just a contraction of a Western term.
I said similar things nearly twenty years on a different thread on these forums, and I remember another member (John Paul Cassidy, who I think had the username "Ryuseipro", he doesn't seem to have posted here in forever, but I know him on other platforms), responded by noting that before "anime" took off in Japan, terms like "dōga" and "TV Manga" were commonly used instead.

So, yeah...

I don't see the problem here. In Dutch, comics are called "strips", American superhero comics are called "comics" and Japanese comics are called "manga's". Nice and clear. Pretty much everyone here understands English, but that doesn't stop us from changing the meaning of an English word (comics) while speaking Dutch.

Similarly, the word anime now means Japanese animation in a lot of languages. There are many other examples like this. Salsa refers to Mexican sauce, but it's just the Spanish word for (any) sauce. Chai refers to Indian-style tea, but it's just the Hindi word for tea. The word raisin comes from French, but in French it means (any) grape. This is called semantic narrowing.

It doesn't really matter that the Japanese word anime itself is a loanword from English. That also happens all the time in languages. For example, the French word guardien comes from English ward (at the time it was loaned, French didn't start words with a w sound). And now English has the word guardian, from French guardien.

 

[Goldstar!]

I wouldn't be against the idea of a Terrytoons revival. If the people in charge of it had a clear vision and the money and resources to make it work, why not? That would be like if someone at Universal Studios decided to make some Looney Tunes Cartoons style shorts featuring the Walter Lantz characters. If said shorts were good and well made, I'd be down for that.

 

[aegisrawks]

I wouldn't be against the idea of a Terrytoons revival. If the people in charge of it had a clear vision and the money and resources to make it work, why not? That would be like if someone at Universal Studios decided to make some Looney Tunes Cartoons style shorts featuring the Walter Lantz characters. If said shorts were good and well made, I'd be down for that.

I loooooooooooooooooooooove this opinion. The only thing I would say is that this is not an unpopular opinion but rather an underrated one. You wont get shunned or laughed for it. But it is VERY MUCH important to voice. I love Terrytoons.

 

[Darklordavaitor]

I wouldn't be against the idea of a Terrytoons revival. If the people in charge of it had a clear vision and the money and resources to make it work, why not? That would be like if someone at Universal Studios decided to make some Looney Tunes Cartoons style shorts featuring the Walter Lantz characters. If said shorts were good and well made, I'd be down for that.

yeah, fair, good things could be done with the Terrytoons, I just used them as the first example I could think of for a series of cartoons that isn't currently active.

But I had better examples to use all along- some series can seemingly last forever, like The Simpsons, which remains popular, or Beavis and Butthead, which I think continues to make its best material today. Meanwhile, other works from the same creators, like Futurama or King of the Hill, I think are better left untouched from their original eras.

 

[Fone Bone]

I hate Max Modell from Marvel's Spider-Man. Peter's genius and experiments do nothing but bring major bank to his school and Modell is ALWAYS on Peter's back for being behind in paying his tuition. A less assy person than Max would be offering the kid a free scholarship ride considering all that he brings to that school.

Not sure that's an unpopular opinion or not, but I'm the only person I've ever heard bring it up, or express hatred for that specific character, so maybe?

 

[JMTV]

Sometimes I wish that more fans would be willing to let the shows they like just end. If said show was unceremoniously canceled after a single season or something like that, then sure. Start a campaign or a Kickstarter to bring it back. However, if a show has already been running for 4 complete seasons or longer, has over 100 episodes under its belt and the creator(s) is ready to call it quits, then don't beg for a revival. Futurama doesn't need any more revivals. Teen Titans TAS got 5 seasons (including that sucky 5th season) when it was only supposed to get 4, and yet there are still fans who want another season. Just let it end, already.

I agree. Especially coming from someone like me who is getting sick and tired a lot of reboots and revivals. On the other hand, if there are shows that was never given the chance to conclude their stories, then I don't think fans wanted to see the shows coming back was a bad thing.

 

[JoeMabbon]

The people calling for more Teen Titans (2003) would have a point if DC had completely given up on modern, teencentric reimaginings of classic characters. But they're still cranking out new shows that scratch that itch even now (My Adventures with Superman). What more do people want at this point?

 

[harry580]

a new the zeta project or static shock cartoon?

for me, ice age 7 (hopefully be the last movie that could end on a high note because if they ending it with ice age buck wild, when that's be a sour note) & rio 3

someone said the funny company could have continued if theres are no dark age for cartoons in the 60s/70s

 

[The Overlord]

Sometimes I wish that more fans would be willing to let the shows they like just end. If said show was unceremoniously canceled after a single season or something like that, then sure. Start a campaign or a Kickstarter to bring it back. However, if a show has already been running for 4 complete seasons or longer, has over 100 episodes under its belt and the creator(s) is ready to call it quits, then don't beg for a revival. Futurama doesn't need any more revivals. Teen Titans TAS got 5 seasons (including that sucky 5th season) when it was only supposed to get 4, and yet there are still fans who want another season. Just let it end, already.

Would you say the same thing about a spiritual successor rather than a direct continuation? The new Batman cartoon on Amazon Prime is going to be made by the people who made Batman the animated series and will tell BTAS style stories, with a little less censorship than in the 90s, but it will be its own continuity. Meanwhile X-Men 97 is a direct sequel to X-Men TAS, so I am not sure if you would judge both of those shows in a similar fashion.

I got one, GI Joe Renegades was an underrated show in 2010 that has been forgotten nowadays, but I thought it was good. People didn't like it because it ripped off the A-Team, but lets face it, GI Joe since the 80s was a bunch of Nick Fury comics lore Marvel borrowed to give the GI Joe their own lore. Seriously, Duke is Nick Fury, Cobra Commander is Baron Strucker, Madame Hydra is the Baroness, the GI Joes are SHIELD and Cobra is Hydra. GI Joe rips other properties off, so its fine that they borrowed from the A-Team. Putting the GI Joes in an underdog position makes them more compelling and that show had a pretty menacing Cobra Commander.

 

[Zanneck]

I love Disenchantment. Fully and whole-heartedly. I think it wound up better than Futurama.

Funny, I thought most of it kinda sucked. Especially how it started out.....
To be fair, thankfully enough that I can almost agree with you - Disenchantment actually did at least have a spectacular enough last season & ending to make up for it. Begrudgingly because of THAT for me, even though I didn't like most of it - Disenchantment ended up ultimately being a Better Star Vs Her Own Obnoxiousness than that actual show itself ever was - Especially, AGAIN - Because it has a satisfying build-up to its ending, unlike anything I just compared it to, at the end of the day.

Then again, I've said it before, I'll say it again - it's not hard to be better than Star Vs Her Own Obnoxiousness, when you ultimately do have characters I can at least grow to like, which Disenchantment begrudgingly does, too, in the end!

I could agree with you that Disenchantment is better than Futurama, simply because it feels like an actual story with a beginning, middle, and end worth giving a chance. It just isn't nearly as funny compared to the masterpiece actual humor that is Futurama's classic first four seasons.

However, thinking about it now, most of Futurama's humor, especially after Season 4 (and in some cases, even between the first 4 classic seasons!) DOESN'T hold up much anymore, now does it???

 

[Zanneck]

..... I guess that brings me to my own Unpopular Opinion: I'm not a fan of Western shows that try too hard to mimic (what we've come to classify as) anime and are chock full of anime tropes. Let anime be anime. Similarly, Disney Channel's teen leaning stuff has never appealed to me, but it's worth mentioning that I didn't like teen-centric stuff even when I was a teen.

What is it with you guys knowing how I feel about anime as of late, even if not 100% of the time??? I'd say I love it, but I don't want to come off like too much of a suck-up to you guys, honestly enough.

With all this discussion, let me give two more unpopular opinions.

1. I agree with @Silverstar and @JMTV that recent cartoons rely too much on an anime artstyle, and I miss the days where cartoons didn't need to have this huge overlaying plot. That's why I feel that The Cuphead Show was a breath of fresh air for me, as being something that was inspired by the Golden Age of American animation, it did not need to follow the tropes that 2010s cartoons used.

2. I feel that people have been giving Disney's recent cartoons too much animosity. Look, I get it, TOH was an lofty show and it didn't need to get a shortened third season when it was in its prime, but come on.

Kiff and Hailey's on It, in my opinion, don't need to be put under the dust because they're not lore-driven.

Thank You. And I'm not Hailey's On It's biggest fan, neither - but we could use more stuff like Kiff for proper escapism, right about now. I've seen some episodes and, even though I need to watch more of it, it's overall actually something that's needed to balance things out more, not less.

Add Teen Titans Not Go to that list as well. Ironically, it seemed to me that Thundercats 2011 was trying hard to mimic Avatar: TLA.

All's I know is that because of the West's anime obsession, we now have an entire generation of poseurs on Tumblr and YouTube who act like anime is the Food of the Gods, the Gold Standard of animation and should replace oxygen as the thing we need to breathe in order to stay alive, think that because they've seen Yu-Gi-Oh! and Naruto that they're now experts on all things Japan and "actually" you all the time like they just got back from vacationing in Tokyo and whenever you dare to suggest that other animation influences like the Golden Age or the 90's-00's American style are good too or if you say that you're a fan of a non-anime cartoon or one with a decidedly Western aesthetic and sensibilities, they make a face like someone farted (as @Goldstar! likes to say) and give you this haughty "Congrats on being basic, brah" attitude.

And no, I'm not trying to bash anime or its' fans (every fanbase has its' embarrassing fringe, but they're not indicative of the base as a whole); anime is fine for what it is, but it's not the Be All, End All of animation, nor is it the standard by which all other cartoons should be judged.

-Here's an unpopular opinion: it may not seem like it right now, but getting bought by Disney was the best thing that could've happened to Marvel. Prior to the Disney acquisition, the company was nearly broke and the rights to all of their IPs were scattered across multiple studios and companies. Marvel may well have gone under if the Mouse hadn't offered to become the Avengers' Sugar Daddy.

What kills me about this attitude is when anime fans claim that Japanese animation is the ONLY good animation, and that all Western animation is trash. I mean, seriously, have these people not seen any TV shows or movies made in the last 30 years? If you don't think that Pete Browngardt's Looney Tunes Cartoons wasn't an achievement in animation, I don't know what to tell you.

And (bolded) yeah, I do say that.

Extending others' criticism of obnoxious Western fans of Anime, I'd like to admit that I actually somewhat dislike using the word "anime", at least when using it in English. Use of the term outside of Japan has made it seem like animation from the Land of the Rising Sun is its own genre, which is a rather skewed point of view.
Like, "anime" isn't even a word that originated from Japan or its neighboring countries, it's just a contraction of a Western term.
I said similar things nearly twenty years on a different thread on these forums, and I remember another member (John Paul Cassidy, who I think had the username "Ryuseipro", he doesn't seem to have posted here in forever, but I know him on other platforms), responded by noting that before "anime" took off in Japan, terms like "dōga" and "TV Manga" were commonly used instead.

So, yeah...

Again, thank you for seeing what I'm seeing - trying to make everything like how the Japanese do it leaves something to be desired when all I want are more good American & European joints anyday over anything Japanese, please & thank you very much. Then again, I notice why this is the way it is, now - too many Americans are ashamed to be American. And that sucks! America's got problems, yeah - but no one should be that ashamed, let alone be wasting all that time being that ashamed, after awhile!

I think that Kid Cosmic and Wander over Yonder are stronger shows than Foster's Home and PPG.

Those two have the right amount of humor, ham-fisting aciton, and heart that Foster's can only wish it can have.

Once Again, thank you. Glad to see someone else gets it. Wander Definitely deserved to last longer than Foster's ever did, because Wander was actually good. Kid Cosmic was an actually relatable masterpiece for the short amount of time it was around - and I will take that with me to my grave!

As for PPG - at least in its actually classic years, of course, it should have only been 4 seasons long and nothing else after that. Seasons 5 & 6 were hot mediocrity to unfortunate trash. If I were McCracken, I would've done what I can to move on from that and prevent any reboots from ever getting made. Ever.