WB Animation and Cartoon Network Studios merge; will remain as seperate labels

[Leviathan]

Are industry animators mad at Cartoon Brew for spreading false information, or are they mad that they
are publicizing an unpleasant truth they are in denial about?

Cause even if CNS is technically "alive" right now, the writing is so obviously on the wall.

If you don't want to believe Amid Amidi (and that's understandable), how about the guy who was there when CNS was built and help set it up?

 

[ThePharaohZ]

I think one problem is that they've marketed their network to skew too young when kids actually like to feel older than they are.

Honestly, a lot of these execs are so out of touch and underestimate the intelligence of children. I remember feeling absolutely insulted whenever an adult talked down to me.

 

[JMTV]

Synder regime really fought against the whole "cartoons are for babies" idea and aged up a lot of their marketing and shows as well. (Despite all the live-action stuff they tried to push).

You know that the folks in charge are messing things up when people start looking back fondly on the Snyder era. XD Chowder and The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack came from that era, but so did Out of Jimmy's Head and CN Real.

Okay, to be fair, I wouldn't call the Snyder era amazing either for...obvious reasons (that people already brought up for the millionth time, and I'm not interested in repeating that again), BUT at least I'll give Snyder credit for pushing the boundaries with its programming and help CN push to a much wider and broader audience. Stuff like that we hadn't seen since the 90's.

Didn't out of Jimmy's head come out in 2007 during the Jim Samples era though?

If you're talking about Re-Animated, then no. That's from 2006 (Jim Samples' tenure). Out of Jimmy's Head came out in 2007, during the Snyder era.

Although, the less said about that show, the better.

The misinformation is spreading, unfortunately. THAT, I truly find something to be weary of, at the end of the day, the most.

Don't even bother with those people, dude. They're only in it for clicks and clout. Plain and simple.

They had successful shows after she left and even beloved shows way after anything she would have had influence in existing. It was like the network sat there gathering dust. I do think there were some missteps, though I think the non-reality based CN live-action shows weren't bad, and they had a great 2010 to about 2016. I don't think it's been 21 years of bad management. Even if like 2007 Cartoon Network made some , in hindsight, odd and bad decisions, they were at least trying, merger era (2016- present) really is where the network just feels like it stopped having anything going for it. And every time it got back up it's just been kicked back down.

Okay, that's a fair point.

I’ve been thinking about how this particular controversy began. It might’ve been avoided if WB-D had put out a more extensive announcement in which they explained what exactly is going on. (This is assuming, of course, that they actually do know what’s going on.) Maybe they could've updated us on what CNS projects are currently in the works while they were at it.

Instead, they just casually mentioned that CNS is folding into WBA in a memo. They really didn’t say much more than that, and that created a big opportunity for speculation. And let’s not forget, people were already concerned about Cartoon Network due to other recent events (i.e. the HBO Max purge).

What I’m saying is, WB-D should’ve been more careful when announcing this. They should know what The Internet can do when you leave them with unanswered questions.

[This part is a general statement , not part of a reply]
Overall, I think the Discovery people should have listened to the people in the company they just bought to gage things then made a plan and talked to them on how they (the Discovery people) were thinking. Alot of the recent goings on feels more like they are just doing stuff with reckless abandon. It's a merger, so yeah there are going to be cuts, but I think this looks bad because it feels like last minute decisions being made on a whim.
Maybe having Warner Bros Animation and CN Studios be one thing makes sense, I can see the logic, they both make animation for TV, why should there be two units doing the same thing? I think things could have been handled better and it feels like there wasn't much communication. Earlier when they removed shows without telling anybody or not listening to anyone was a bad thing.

Exactly. This whole nonsense back in August could've been EASILY avoided if Zaslav and crew actually addressed and clarified about why they are removing shows from HBO Max, and tell the animators ahead of time about what is going on. That's all we ask for. All we want is answers. That way, a lot of people wouldn't have a problem with you right now.

 

[R Lopez]

Are industry animators mad at Cartoon Brew for spreading false information, or are they mad that they
are publicizing an unpleasant truth they are in denial about?

Cause even if CNS is technically "alive" right now, the writing is so obviously on the wall.

You know who could provide us with some clarity? WB-D.

But even then, if you are currently working on a series that will be released with the CNS logo on it, then couldn't you reasonably say that CNS is alive and well? I certainly don't expect the CNS building in Burbank to suddenly be emptied.

I really think that a lot of answers/explanations will come with time. But I'll just point out that a studio doesn't always have to shut down overnight. It can happen gradually. That's more or less what happened to Hanna-Barbera in the 90s. For a while, after Time Warner acquired Turner Broadcasting, HB was allowed to coexist with Warner Bros. Animation; they even shared the same building in Sherman Oaks for a while. Then the HB name became just a name, and it was gone.

 

[Checkerboard]

I don't mind management changes and cost cutting in general, but the selection itself and lack of communication is what is controversial. I imagine Zaslav running around the woods looking for trees he could chop off. He has to be cold, but he has no contact with reality and no taste.

Some people here might welcome something constructive. So, here is what I would do if I were them to save money where it makes sense and where can I avoid ticking people off. I would get rid of:

Destination America (sold off)
Oprah Winfrey Network (sold off)
Tru TV (shut down)
American Heroes Channel (rebranded as Discovery Military)
Cooking Channel (content merged with Food Channel)
HBO Signature (content shifted to new streaming service)
HBO Zone (content shifted to new streaming service)
Magnolia Network (content nerged with HGTV)
Movie Max (content shifted to new streaming service)
More Max (rebranded as Cinemax 2)
5Star Max (rebranded as Cinemax 3)
Action Max (content shifted to Cinemax 2)
Thriller Max (content shifted to Cinemax 2)
Outer Max (content shifted to Cinemax 3)
Philo (sold off)
Gunpowder and Sky (sold off)
Rooster Teeth (lay off 30 people)
Boing Italy (sold off)
Boing Spain (sold off)
Boing Africa (shut down)
Boing France (shut down)
Toonami Africa (content shifted to new streaming service)
Toonami France (content shifted to new streaming service)
9 Rush (sold off)
Bravo (sold off)
Eden (shut down)
Three (shut down)
Living (sold off)
Rush (content shifted to new streaming service)
JTBC (sold off)
K2 (shut down)
Real Time (shut down)
Frisbee (shut down)
Kanal 5 (shut down)
Kanal 4 (shut down)
Metro (shut down)
I.Sat (shut down)

These are assets I think WBD doesn't need and people wouldn't miss and I'd argue it would save they money they need, maybe more. And it would enable them to focus more on their key brands. Hopefully he gets to those eventually and leaves everything else alone.

 

[Eldorado]

I don't mind management changes and cost cutting in general, but the selection itself and lack of communication is what is controversial. I imagine Zaslav running around the woods looking for trees he could chop off. He has to be cold, but he has no contact with reality and no taste.

Some people here might welcome something constructive. So, here is what I would do if I were them to save money where it makes sense and where can I avoid ticking people off. I would get rid of:

Destination America (sold off)
Oprah Winfrey Network (sold off)
Tru TV (shut down)
American Heroes Channel (rebranded as Discovery Military)
Cooking Channel (content merged with Food Channel)
HBO Signature (content shifted to new streaming service)
HBO Zone (content shifted to new streaming service)
Magnolia Network (content nerged with HGTV)
Movie Max (content shifted to new streaming service)
More Max (rebranded as Cinemax 2)
5Star Max (rebranded as Cinemax 3)
Action Max (content shifted to Cinemax 2)
Thriller Max (content shifted to Cinemax 2)
Outer Max (content shifted to Cinemax 3)
Philo (sold off)
Gunpowder and Sky (sold off)
Rooster Teeth (lay off 30 people)
Boing Italy (sold off)
Boing Spain (sold off)
Boing Africa (shut down)
Boing France (shut down)
Toonami Africa (content shifted to new streaming service)
Toonami France (content shifted to new streaming service)
9 Rush (sold off)
Bravo (sold off)
Eden (shut down)
Three (shut down)
Living (sold off)
Rush (content shifted to new streaming service)
JTBC (sold off)
K2 (shut down)
Real Time (shut down)
Frisbee (shut down)
Kanal 5 (shut down)
Kanal 4 (shut down)
Metro (shut down)
I.Sat (shut down)

These are assets I think WBD doesn't need and people wouldn't miss and I'd argue it would save they money they need, maybe more. And it would enable them to focus more on their key brands. Hopefully he gets to those eventually and leaves everything else alone.

Zaslav clearly hates cartoons! So none of that is ever happening!

 

[R Lopez]

So, here is what I would do if I were them to save money where it makes sense and where can I avoid ticking people off. I would get rid of:

Is this a bad time to bring up Boomerang?

Actually, I don't know what to make of the Boomerang brand. It's kinda remarkable that both the streaming service and the on-air channel still exist.

My theory about them, is that they cost virtually nothing to program, and just enough people subscribe to it/have it in their cable package to bring in some money annually. What other explanation is there?

 

[JMTV]

I don't mind management changes and cost cutting in general, but the selection itself and lack of communication is what is controversial. I imagine Zaslav running around the woods looking for trees he could chop off. He has to be cold, but he has no contact with reality and no taste.

Some people here might welcome something constructive. So, here is what I would do if I were them to save money where it makes sense and where can I avoid ticking people off. I would get rid of:

Destination America (sold off)
Oprah Winfrey Network (sold off)
Tru TV (shut down)
American Heroes Channel (rebranded as Discovery Military)
Cooking Channel (content merged with Food Channel)
HBO Signature (content shifted to new streaming service)
HBO Zone (content shifted to new streaming service)
Magnolia Network (content nerged with HGTV)
Movie Max (content shifted to new streaming service)
More Max (rebranded as Cinemax 2)
5Star Max (rebranded as Cinemax 3)
Action Max (content shifted to Cinemax 2)
Thriller Max (content shifted to Cinemax 2)
Outer Max (content shifted to Cinemax 3)
Philo (sold off)
Gunpowder and Sky (sold off)
Rooster Teeth (lay off 30 people)
Boing Italy (sold off)
Boing Spain (sold off)
Boing Africa (shut down)
Boing France (shut down)
Toonami Africa (content shifted to new streaming service)
Toonami France (content shifted to new streaming service)
9 Rush (sold off)
Bravo (sold off)
Eden (shut down)
Three (shut down)
Living (sold off)
Rush (content shifted to new streaming service)
JTBC (sold off)
K2 (shut down)
Real Time (shut down)
Frisbee (shut down)
Kanal 5 (shut down)
Kanal 4 (shut down)
Metro (shut down)
I.Sat (shut down)

These are assets I think WBD doesn't need and people wouldn't miss and I'd argue it would save they money they need, maybe more. And it would enable them to focus more on their key brands. Hopefully he gets to those eventually and leaves everything else alone.

What about Discovery Family?

 

[lowell]

I don't mind management changes and cost cutting in general, but the selection itself and lack of communication is what is controversial. I imagine Zaslav running around the woods looking for trees he could chop off. He has to be cold, but he has no contact with reality and no taste.

Some people here might welcome something constructive. So, here is what I would do if I were them to save money where it makes sense and where can I avoid ticking people off. I would get rid of:

Destination America (sold off)
Oprah Winfrey Network (sold off)
Tru TV (shut down)
American Heroes Channel (rebranded as Discovery Military)
Cooking Channel (content merged with Food Channel)
HBO Signature (content shifted to new streaming service)
HBO Zone (content shifted to new streaming service)
Magnolia Network (content nerged with HGTV)
Movie Max (content shifted to new streaming service)
More Max (rebranded as Cinemax 2)
5Star Max (rebranded as Cinemax 3)
Action Max (content shifted to Cinemax 2)
Thriller Max (content shifted to Cinemax 2)
Outer Max (content shifted to Cinemax 3)
Philo (sold off)
Gunpowder and Sky (sold off)
Rooster Teeth (lay off 30 people)
Boing Italy (sold off)
Boing Spain (sold off)
Boing Africa (shut down)
Boing France (shut down)
Toonami Africa (content shifted to new streaming service)
Toonami France (content shifted to new streaming service)
9 Rush (sold off)
Bravo (sold off)
Eden (shut down)
Three (shut down)
Living (sold off)
Rush (content shifted to new streaming service)
JTBC (sold off)
K2 (shut down)
Real Time (shut down)
Frisbee (shut down)
Kanal 5 (shut down)
Kanal 4 (shut down)
Metro (shut down)
I.Sat (shut down)

These are assets I think WBD doesn't need and people wouldn't miss and I'd argue it would save they money they need, maybe more. And it would enable them to focus more on their key brands. Hopefully he gets to those eventually and leaves everything else alone.

Zaslav should really bring shedding real estate assets to the top of his priority.

That can easily bring in more cash to pay off the debt and bring him near his target of synergies.

If he's planning to centralize U.S. operations to only 3 campuses, Warner lot in Burbank, Techwood complex in Atlanta, and Hudson Yards headquarters in NYC, he should be planning that out already.

As for Cooking Channel and Food Network, I wouldn't be surprised if he's trying to get that 31% stake from Nexstar now given they got control of the CW now.

The New Zealand channels were something he greenlighted to get so I think he cares about them in some fashion but things could change.

Gunpowder & Sky could just be folded into WB Television at this point.

It makes sense to actually integrate the remnants of Otter into the company at this point than distance themselves.

Even AT&T left Zaslav their regional sports channels to continue to extract revenue from.

What about Discovery Family?

Discovery Family should be on that list unless he wants to remake it something else.

 

[Checkerboard]

Zaslav clearly hates cartoons! So none of that is ever happening!

I mean he is a bit old to appreciate them. He's a businessman. But I'm optimistic slightly.

Is this a bad time to bring up Boomerang?

Actually, I don't know what to make of the Boomerang brand. It's kinda remarkable that both the streaming service and the on-air channel still exist.

My theory about them, is that they cost virtually nothing to program, and just enough people subscribe to it/have it in their cable package to bring in some money annually. What other explanation is there?

No, not at all. But I think those channels I listed have higher priority of getting axed. With Boomerang what I would do is rebrand it outside of America to Cartoonito eventually and in US use it to promote their on demand DVD/BluRay releases for a while before deciding what to properly do with it. Boomerang US has been so long on controversial autopilot that it can wait a bit longer. Definitely a more important brand with potential than some of the listed. Boomerang could still exist as a block somewhere as it originally was. In worst case I would hand over Boomerang's frequency to Adult Swim leaving them with 3 high quality kids youth channels.

What about Discovery Family?

Good question. I left that one out for now, because I find it relatively too big to axe right away. But I think I might update the list a bit with some Discovery branded assets eventually that I missed.

Zaslav should really bring shedding real estate assets to the top of his priority.

That can easily bring in more cash to pay off the debt and bring him near his target of synergies.

If he's planning to centralize U.S. operations to only 3 campuses, Warner lot in Burbank, Techwood complex in Atlanta, and Hudson Yards headquarters in NYC, he should be planning that out already.

As for Cooking Channel and Food Network, I wouldn't be surprised if he's trying to get that 31% stake from Nexstar now given they got control of the CW now.

The New Zealand channels were something he greenlighted to get so I think he cares about them in some fashion but things could change.

Gunpowder & Sky could just be folded into WB Television at this point.

It makes sense to actually integrate the remnants of Otter into the company at this point than distance themselves.

Even AT&T left Zaslav their regional sports channels to continue to extract revenue from.


Discovery Family should be on that list unless he wants to remake it something else.

Yeah, I didn't look into the estates yet, because I don't understand those, but it's true those can save a lot. Rent is skyrocketing. Nothing against less workspaces if it doesn't sabotage work.

There's also the games division where they could come up with something as well.

Yeah, don't have anything against any channels really, but some I question their rentability. Looking into that division I was surprised how much "filler" they own now.

 

[PinkieLopBun]

If you don't want to believe Amid Amidi (and that's understandable), how about the guy who was there when CNS was built and help set it up?

Personally, I’d rather listen to someone that still works there.

 

[lowell]

I mean he is a bit old to appreciate them. He's a businessman. But I'm optimistic slightly.


No, not at all. But I think those channels I listed have higher priority of getting axed. With Boomerang what I would do is rebrand it outside of America to Cartoonito eventually and in US use it to promote their on demand DVD/BluRay releases for a while before deciding what to properly do with it. Boomerang US has been so long on controversial autopilot that it can wait a bit longer. Definitely a more important brand with potential than some of the listed. Boomerang could still exist as a block somewhere as it originally was. In worst case I would hand over Boomerang's frequency to Adult Swim leaving them with 3 high quality kids youth channels.


Good question. I left that one out for now, because I find it relatively too big to axe right away. But I think I might update the list a bit with some Discovery branded assets eventually that I missed.

Yeah, I didn't look into the estates yet, because I don't understand those, but it's true those can save a lot. Rent is skyrocketing. Nothing against less workspaces if it doesn't sabotage work.

There's also the games division where they could come up with something as well.

Yeah, don't have anything against any channels really, but some I question their rentability. Looking into that division I was surprised how much "filler" they own now.

He's in his 60s so I don't think he's even going to be sticking around by the end of this decade.

Once he's done all he needs to do, it's time to call for a sale.

Given the Discovery Family name has been around less than the Boomerang name, that should be more likely to get the axe.

And I still see the Boomerang channel lasting longer than the streaming service.

The real estate assets just makes sense to trim down given the financial standing the company is on. If you can get rid of wasteful building space and move into existing campuses, the rental obligations can just be put back into the savings.

The Warner lot is actually getting an expansion so I would expect Zaslav to take advantage of the space that the new buildings offer.

Surprisingly, the revenue earned by the games division did better than Zaslav's expectations so he's pretty much happy with it but I would expect some minimal changes if every department is going to be looked through for any streamlining.

The bulk of the filler channels is on the Discovery side, they've basically continued to run them because of the revenue that comes in. They're basically going to be milked until it's completely dry.

 

[Leviathan]

Personally, I’d rather listen to someone that still works there.

Is this like how Netflix animators insisted it was still a great place for animation, weeks before their own projects got canned?

Their ox just hasn't been gored yet.

 

[R Lopez]

Personally, I’d rather listen to someone that still works there.

That tweet from the employee has inspired me to quote myself:

...if you are currently working on a series that will be released with the CNS logo on it, then couldn't you reasonably say that CNS is alive and well? I certainly don't expect the CNS building in Burbank to suddenly be emptied.

I really think that a lot of answers/explanations will come with time. But I'll just point out that a studio doesn't always have to shut down overnight.

 

[Ace]

I don't mind management changes and cost cutting in general, but the selection itself and lack of communication is what is controversial. I imagine Zaslav running around the woods looking for trees he could chop off. He has to be cold, but he has no contact with reality and no taste.

Some people here might welcome something constructive. So, here is what I would do if I were them to save money where it makes sense and where can I avoid ticking people off. I would get rid of:

Destination America (sold off)
Oprah Winfrey Network (sold off)
Tru TV (shut down)
American Heroes Channel (rebranded as Discovery Military)
Cooking Channel (content merged with Food Channel)
HBO Signature (content shifted to new streaming service)
HBO Zone (content shifted to new streaming service)
Magnolia Network (content nerged with HGTV)
Movie Max (content shifted to new streaming service)
More Max (rebranded as Cinemax 2)
5Star Max (rebranded as Cinemax 3)
Action Max (content shifted to Cinemax 2)
Thriller Max (content shifted to Cinemax 2)
Outer Max (content shifted to Cinemax 3)
Philo (sold off)
Gunpowder and Sky (sold off)
Rooster Teeth (lay off 30 people)
Boing Italy (sold off)
Boing Spain (sold off)
Boing Africa (shut down)
Boing France (shut down)
Toonami Africa (content shifted to new streaming service)
Toonami France (content shifted to new streaming service)
9 Rush (sold off)
Bravo (sold off)
Eden (shut down)
Three (shut down)
Living (sold off)
Rush (content shifted to new streaming service)
JTBC (sold off)
K2 (shut down)
Real Time (shut down)
Frisbee (shut down)
Kanal 5 (shut down)
Kanal 4 (shut down)
Metro (shut down)
I.Sat (shut down)

These are assets I think WBD doesn't need and people wouldn't miss and I'd argue it would save they money they need, maybe more. And it would enable them to focus more on their key brands. Hopefully he gets to those eventually and leaves everything else alone.

I agree I think a lot of these reality network brands can easily be absorbed by Discovery's brands and with cable these days I bet many of these don't even have 10k concurrent viewers.

 

[lowell]

That tweet from the employee has inspired me to quote myself:

...if you are currently working on a series that will be released with the CNS logo on it, then couldn't you reasonably say that CNS is alive and well? I certainly don't expect the CNS building in Burbank to suddenly be emptied.

I really think that a lot of answers/explanations will come with time. But I'll just point out that a studio doesn't always have to shut down overnight.

Zaslav is likely waiting for the new buildings on the Warner lot to open to have them move in from the building in downtown Burbank.

DC Comics is supposed to do that as well.

I agree I think a lot of these reality network brands can easily be absorbed by Discovery's brands and with cable these days I bet many of these don't even have 10k concurrent viewers.

I think he keeps them because these rerun channels still bring in the dough for him. If they stopped doing so well, he would've axed a lot of them long ago.

 

[PF9]

All I am asking is that WBA tap into their vaults to reboot obscure properties in their possession, such as Marine Boy, Mighty Orbots, and The Pirates of Dark Water.

 

[JMTV]

I think he keeps them because these rerun channels still bring in the dough for him. If they stopped doing so well, he would've axed a lot of them long ago.

Yeah, that is true. That's the main reason why Discovery Family is still going strong. As long as the channel still brings ad revenue, it's good to stay.

 

[lowell]

Yeah, that is true. That's the main reason why Discovery Family is still going strong. As long as the channel still brings ad revenue, it's good to stay.

Yup, if the channel underwent any changes again but the advertising doesn't, it can continue to keep running.

Going through 3 name changes barely affected the revenue generated so I don't think there will be any consequences if the network goes through another renaming.

 

[ThePharaohZ]

Is this like how Netflix animators insisted it was still a great place for animation, weeks before their own projects got canned?

Their ox just hasn't been gored yet.

Agreed. If I was a showrunner for Netflix or CN and I saw all these cancellations, that would literally put the fear of god in me. IMO, the whole "maybe we'll be safe" attitude is a naive albeit hopefully outlook when dealing with a company.