4Kids Talkback: A New Dawn Begins - The 4Kids Discussion V3

[Radical Raven]

Pessimist. Just because Saturday morning cartoons on network programming have gone down the tubes, you assume that an entire hundred-year old medium will collapse?

 

[D Dubbs]

Perhaps 4kids should have just renewed 4kidsTV for 5 years and never bought the CW block.

I'm interested to see how this plays out. Most people expected 4kids to do better, but now it seems they're doing worse, if that's even possible.

At this rate you get the impression...what's the point? Starting a new block with all these new shows is pointless if nobody is going to watch. You might as well say Saturday mornings are dead and just call it quits.

Gee, so one off-day in the ratings means the end of Saturday morning cartoons? The Nielsen ratings system doesn't really give you an accurate sense of how a block is doing if you only look at one week. You need to look at the big picture. Last year, 4Kids TV had plenty long-term slumps in the ratings, but now they're doing fine. The same thing will most likely happen with the CW4Kids.

Also, the main advantage of the CW block is that it doesn't cost as much to 'rent' the time. Even with lower ratings, 4Kids is still probably making more money of their CW block than their FOX block.

 

[chdr]

I hate to say it" Saturday morning cartoons are dead. We might all need a new passion. Cartoons are done.

If the end of Saturday morning cartoons heralded the end of animation, shouldn't it have ended years ago?

My opinion is that Saturday mornings have had their time in the sun, but they're obsolete now. They were useful when the average kid only had access to the basic broadcast stations, but the cable market exploded and that was that. Now instead of waking up on Saturday mornings, they can watch cartoons whenever they want, on channels like Nick and CN. Even now, streaming cartoons online is picking up steam.

Cable rendered the very existence of Saturday morning cartoons useless, and now it's starting to feel the pain. Hard.

 

[CyberCubed]

Gee, so one off-day in the ratings means the end of Saturday morning cartoons? The Nielsen ratings system doesn't really give you an accurate sense of how a block is doing if you only look at one week. You need to look at the big picture. Last year, 4Kids TV had plenty long-term slumps in the ratings, but now they're doing fine. The same thing will most likely happen with the CW4Kids.

What if ratings don't improve? Next year when 4kidsTV is gone and 4kids no longer has that block to fall back on, they're really going to enjoy having all their shows not even break a 1.0?

If kids aren't watching, there is just no point. Let's face it, there's a reason why FoxKids and KidsWb died, and it'll only be a matter of time before the same thing happens to 4kids.

Kids of this generation don't care about Saturday mornings anymore, its sad when even a 1.0 is considered "good" nowadays when a few years ago they used to get 3.0's and 4.0's in KidsWb's prime.

4kids always had a problem being in tune with their audience, that's why some of their past experiments failed, and unless there is a major turn around I don't know how this will go.

Some kids don't even know the CW exists, there's a reason why reruns of TMNT Fast Forward are doing better than the new TMNT season on CW, and its sad that 4kids can't even get their own fanbase to switch channels.

Things are not looking good so far, and 4kids will only this block for another 4 years? How will they manage?

 

[D Dubbs]

Well, even if the rating for CW4Kids stay that low (which I really doubt they will), 4Kids still has their website to fall back on. They get approximately 15 million streams on the 4Kids.tv website every month, and that number continues to grow. I believe 4Kids has mentioned that their website was their biggest source of income, outside of Chaotic. It's not to the point where they can survive by only being on the Internet, but it could realistically happen within a few years.

Cable rendered the very existence of Saturday morning cartoons useless, and now it's starting to feel the pain. Hard.

It's not that bad. Over the past year, 4Kids TV has been doing about as good as CN's Saturday morning block and has even beat Nick in a few instances.

 

[chdr]

That's not the point. Cable networks in general have been performing better. They are beyond having to compete with the Saturday morning lineups.

 

[Golfkid]

I hate to say it" Saturday morning cartoons are dead. We might all need a new passion. Cartoons are done.

As hard as it is to say, I think you're mostly right. Cable has been the main problem, but I think the loss of a Weekday line-up has hurt too. It doesn't give anyone a chance to see part of a line-up. It's easy for kids to know about a line-up, if it's advertised 6 days a week (sometimes maybe even 7 days, but really early on Sundays). I just wonder if this was a bad week or a sign of things to come.

 

[D Dubbs]

That's not the point. Cable networks in general have been performing better. They are beyond having to compete with the Saturday morning lineups.

Nick is, but Cartoon Network is more or less at the same level as 4Kids. The premieres in Har Har Tharsdays and You Are Here get around a 3.0, right? That's about equivalent to a 1.3 or 1.4 on broadcast, which isn't out of 4Kids' ballpark at all.

But if we're talking about all of Saturday morning in general, then yeah, cable has the advantage because all the low-rated E/I stuff on CBS, ABC and NBC.

 

[Spideyzilla]

If the end of Saturday morning cartoons heralded the end of animation, shouldn't it have ended years ago?

My opinion is that Saturday mornings have had their time in the sun, but they're obsolete now. They were useful when the average kid only had access to the basic broadcast stations, but the cable market exploded and that was that. Now instead of waking up on Saturday mornings, they can watch cartoons whenever they want, on channels like Nick and CN. Even now, streaming cartoons online is picking up steam.

Cable rendered the very existence of Saturday morning cartoons useless, and now it's starting to feel the pain. Hard.

Will Saturday morning cartoons ever come back?

 

[Light Lucario]

Gee, so one off-day in the ratings means the end of Saturday morning cartoons? The Nielsen ratings system doesn't really give you an accurate sense of how a block is doing if you only look at one week. You need to look at the big picture. Last year, 4Kids TV had plenty long-term slumps in the ratings, but now they're doing fine. The same thing will most likely happen with the CW4Kids.

Also, the main advantage of the CW block is that it doesn't cost as much to 'rent' the time. Even with lower ratings, 4Kids is still probably making more money of their CW block than their FOX block.

I know what you mean. I agree with you. I honestly think that people are being pretty harsh on the CW4Kids block ratings and overreacting. Sure, its not that good, but it really isn't that horrible either. Especially when you consider that they just started a month ago, the block was completely changed from how it was during the summer and the kids need to get use to it. I doubt that people mourning the lost of Kids' WB would have that much effect on the ratings. The 4KidsTV block is probably doing better because they hardly changed any of their shows from the summer and the kids are more used to the schedule anyway.

I doubt that these ratings will continue to be like this next year. If that does happen and its bad enough to not renew their contract with the CW, that would be a shame, but I also agree with D Dubbs that they could possibly survive on their website in a few years if it comes down to that. I'm not sure what are the odds of that happening, but still.

Will Saturday morning cartoons ever come back?

The last time I checked, there are still Saturday morning blocks, such as CW4Kids and 4KidsTV and a few other ones. I don't think that Saturday morning cartoon blocks will get the same treatment that they did in the past, at least not without some more promotion or possibly a weekday afternoon slot.

I hate to say it" Saturday morning cartoons are dead. We might all need a new passion. Cartoons are done.

The status of Saturday morning cartoons doesn't affect cartoons in general. There are still other channels that still play cartoons, like Nick, CN and even Disney, though few at the moment. Still, cartoons are not done. Not even close. No offense, but that just feel like melodramatic worrying over nothing to me.

 

[CyberCubed]

I don't know if this was asked, but does 4kids air commercials advertising the CW block on 4kidsTV?

It would be a good way to let kids know what they're missing.

 

[PC!]

I don't know if this was asked, but does 4kids air commercials advertising the CW block on 4kidsTV?

It would be a good way to let kids know what they're missing.

No. I'm sure they'd love to, but I doubt FOX is keen about them advertising a competing network.

 

[Silverstar]

Will Saturday morning cartoons ever come back?

Uh, they haven't gone anywhere. Cartoons still air on Saturday mornings. 4Kids, KEWLopolis, Qubo, Dynamite Action Squad, Discovery Kids, PBS Kids, Nick, Boomerang, Toon Disney/Jetix, etc, etc. The cartoons that these blocks feature may not be your personal cup of tea, but they're still very much around.

 

[Goldstar!]

I hate to say it" Saturday morning cartoons are dead. We might all need a new passion. Cartoons are done.

No offense, but please. If I dug a grave every time someone predicted that cartoons were dying, I'd be in China by now.

Saturday morning cartoons may not serve the same purpose that they once did, and they may not be as significant now that we have cable/satellite channels and kids can now watch cartoons whenever they want, but you'll notice that Saturday morning cartoons still haven't gone anywhere. The medium is still very much alive.

 

[mumbo]

I don't know if this was asked, but does 4kids air commercials advertising the CW block on 4kidsTV?

It would be a good way to let kids know what they're missing.

I'm sure they'd love to but they can't. The most they can do is push kids toward the website, which has stuff about the CW4Kids on it. What they should probably do is list the CW4Kids schedule ahead of the 4Kids TV one on their main page, since the site still kind of comes off as being more for the Fox block than the CW one.

It's the same thing with the CW dumping WWE Smackdown in possibly the dumbest move in network TV history. WWE couldn't actually mention MyNetworkTV during the CW broadcasts so they just had to say that the show was "moving" - they were allowed to mention MyNetwork TV during their Raw and ECW airings though, since those are on USA and Sci-Fi instead.

 

[CyberCubed]

Oh I see, didn't know that.

I guess we'll have to wait till 4kidsTV ends before the CW4kids gets better ratings.

Those kids have no incentive to change channels if they don't really know. Hell from the looks of things they prefer shows like Sonic and Kirby over Spiderman and Yu-gi-oh?

Anyone else find that funny?

 

[D Dubbs]

What I think is interesting is that 4Kids TV is doing the best that it has in years...and over half the block is reruns. It shows how 4Kids is stretching themselves out thin, but I still think it's kind of cool how in the block's final year on TV, it's basically "The Best of 4Kids TV." Not a lot of networks can recycle material and still get decent ratings, but I guess it's a little different when you're dealing with kids.

 

[Golfkid]

It's the same thing with the CW dumping WWE Smackdown in possibly the dumbest move in network TV history. WWE couldn't actually mention MyNetworkTV during the CW broadcasts so they just had to say that the show was "moving" - they were allowed to mention MyNetwork TV during their Raw and ECW airings though, since those are on USA and Sci-Fi instead.

I'm a little confused on how this was "The Dumbest Move in Network TV History". Does the WWE Smackdown get really good ratings and that's why the CW dumping it was a real dumb move?

 

[bigddan11]

I'm a little confused on how this was "The Dumbest Move in Network TV History". Does the WWE Smackdown get really good ratings and that's why the CW dumping it was a real dumb move?

WWE Friday Night SmackDown! was the most watched show on CW. It typically drew higher ratings on Friday Night than FOX, NBC, and sometimes ABC allowing CW to finish third or fourth when they typically are always fifth. RAW is typically watched more than even Monday Night Football (unless it's a Cowboys/ Eagles game), ECW is still one of Sci-Fi's top 5 shows in terms of ratings and quite possibly #1 in viewership, and SmackDown! has shattered the highest rating for MyNetwork over the last three weeks. Anything that is associated with the WWE typically succeeds, just like Kids' WB! was, but because it didn't fit "their programming" or because it "cost them too much money despite being the #1 kids network at the time", then CW President Dawn Ostroff dumped them all together. This is also why Sunday Night is being leased by another company.

 

[D Dubbs]

November 1st, 2008 (4Kids TV)
08:00 AM Di-Gata Defenders - The Cycle (#21) NEW
08:30 AM Biker Mice from Mars - Driver's Ed (#8) NEW
09:00 AM Sonic X - Pure Chaos (#27)
09:30 AM Sonic X - A Chaotic Day (#28)
10:00 AM Chaotic: M'arrillian Invasion - Mega Match (#48) NEW
10:30 AM Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Fast Forward - Clash of the Turtle Titans (#125)
11:00 AM Kirby: Right Back at Ya! - Fitness Fiend (#61)
11:30 AM Winx Club - The Voice of Nature (#4)

November 1st, 2008 (The CW4Kids)
07:00 AM Will and Dewitt - On Olden Pond; Total Eclipse of the Frog (#8)
07:30 AM Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - Attack of the Mousers (#3) NEW to CW4Kids
08:00 AM Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - Meet Casey Jones (#4) NEW to CW4Kids
08:30 AM GoGoRiki - Woe is Wolli; Scary Stories; A Hair Scare (#6) NEW
09:00 AM The Spectacular Spider-Man - The Uncertainty Principle (#9)
09:30 AM The Spectacular Spider-Man - Persona (#10)
10:00 AM Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Back to the Sewer - Identity Crisis (#150) NEW
10:30 AM Dinosaur King - Ninja Nightmare (#34) NEW
11:00 AM Chaotic - Fire Fighters (#31) NEW to CW4Kids
11:30 AM Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's - Fire It Up! (#8) NEW

Hmm...we seem to be burning through these Back to the Sewer episodes rather quickly. After this week, over half the season will have aired already.