Adult Swim's New Kid-Friendly Direction

PicardMan

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No, he's right. AS is a bunch of sellouts.

Well, Adult Swim has arguably sold out since their inception, being known by mainstream audiences from the beginning as a Fox rerun farm. Checkered Past is at least more interesting than Fox reruns. Acme Night is the sellout block. Adult Swim should never air mainstream live action cinema.
 

JMTV

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Well, Adult Swim has arguably sold out since their inception, being known by mainstream audiences from the beginning as a Fox rerun farm.
Now, to be extremely fair here, Adult Swim wasn't really a Fox rerun farm when it first started out in 2001. It was originally a Cartoon Network After Dark block featuring shows for older audiences that CN wouldn't even dare put on the daytime. For better or for worse, Family Guy and Futurama wouldn't be getting a fair chance if it wasn't for Adult Swim. Same thing with Home Movies, The Oblongs, etc.

I get that Adult Swim is being well known for Fox reruns, but I just want to make it clear, it's not just a Fox rerun farm, at least to me. Honestly, broadcast networks like Fox deserves to blame for not giving Futurama and Family Guy a fair chance back when they first came out, and now people using Adult Swim as some sort of a scapegoat.
Checkered Past is at least more interesting than Fox reruns.
True. No argument there.
Acme Night is the sellout block. Adult Swim should never air mainstream live action cinema.
Honestly, I don't understand why ACME Night, a family block, has to be part the adult side of the spectrum? If I was in charge of Adult Swim, I would either a) move back to Cartoon Network or b) get rid of ACME Night altogether and replace with Adult Swim Rewind.
 

PicardMan

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I get that Adult Swim is being well known for Fox reruns, but I just want to make it clear, it's not just a Fox rerun farm, at least to me. Honestly, broadcast networks like Fox deserves to blame for not giving Futurama and Family Guy a fair chance back when they first came out, and now people using Adult Swim as some sort of a scapegoat.

Good point that Family Guy wasn't originally the one of the biggest adult cartoons ever and it wasn't until the mid 00s when it became this super mainstream, overexposed show. Adult Swim has been known for being artistically riskier than Fox when it comes to animation. Stuff like the Boondocks, Venture Bros, and the like are some of the most acclaimed adult cartoons out there. Fox would also never do a non comedy like Adult Swim has. Probably what makes them known as sellouts is the fact that the Fox stuff dominates the schedule and their originals tend to rerun in later slots.

Really Adult Swim has suffered from having so many different faces and identities. Mainstream audiences know it primarily as the place where you can watch super mainstream Fox reruns like King of the Hill, American Dad, and Bob's Burgers. It's other identity is the place where stoners can watch weird cartoons like Aqua Teen Hunger Force (granted, there are sober people who watch these, adult comedy cartoons that are especially surreal just had that stigma). It's third identity was the place for edgy adult drama anime, often stuff seen as either deep and profound stuff that proved anime's capabilities as a medium, or boring and pretentious crap. When Jason Demarco took over the anime block from Kim Manning, Adult Swim basically phased out this type of content. The fourth identity is teen oriented action anime like Bleach or Naruto. It's fifth identity is the place for "artistic" adult comedy like Venture Bros, Boondocks, and the like that have deeper characterization, stronger social commentary, more continuity, and the like. It's sixth identity is the place for childhood nostalgia. Since Superman and Genndy are nostalgic, Unicorn Warriors Eternal and My Adventures with Superman, and Checkered Past fall under identity six. I guess Invincible Fight Girl is part of identity six if its not a seventh distinct personality.

Okay, Adult Swim has five (!!) distinct personalities right now and one personality that was phased out. Personally, I have been into Adult Swim for personalities four and to an extent five. It is just so hard for Adult Swim to please all five of its current audiences when their tastes are so drastically different from each other. Ever since Crunchyroll's monopoly, they have really struggled with teen/adult action anime
programming. Smiling Friends has been keeping the ship afloat with regard to comedy after the public seems to have turned on Rick and Morty. Aside from reruns, I guess Smiling Friends is what is keeping Adult Swim relevant in any way as the 2020s have not been kind to the network after it reached its commercial peak in the 2010s with Rick and Morty.
 

JMTV

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Probably what makes them known as sellouts is the fact that the Fox stuff dominates the schedule and their originals tend to rerun in later slots.
Yeah, and I can understand that sentiment. To be fair, I was one of those people who was not a big fan of Fox shows overtaking Adult Swim's schedule. I wouldn't say the shows themselves are the problem since I actually do like shows like American Dad, it just that the Fox shows were the only thing that AS has to offer did cause a very bad stigma.

Personally, I rather have a good balance. You can keep the Fox shows, but thrown some shows like Superman, Samurai Jack, or heck some classics like Mission Hill or Home Movies. Granted, those were unlikely, but variety would've been nice. I may have unpopular opinions about Checkered Past and Toonami Rewind, at least it's better than airing more King of the Hill at 5pm every day. If they did that, then I agree they're freaking sellouts lol

I don't know. The Fox reruns were the only thing that keep Adult Swim's lights on currently, and considered "comfort food for primetime" that made adults actually watching Cartoon Network than the actual Cartoon Network.

When Jason Demarco took over the anime block from Kim Manning, Adult Swim basically phased out this type of content.
Oh, that's interesting. Kim Manning was in charge of Adult Swim Action? Cool. I guess maybe because OG Toonami died in 2008, Jason DeMarco took over Adult Swim Action, and for what I've heard, it did falter in the early 2010's. Now that Toonami came back on Adult Swim, AS themselves felt that there's no point of airing anime outside of Toonami, or something.

I don't know. Please educate me on this since you know the whole story a lot better than I do.
Personally, I have been into Adult Swim for personalities four and to an extent five. It is just so hard for Adult Swim to please all five of its current audiences when their tastes are so drastically different from each other.
Yeah, I can see what you mean. People grew up with different personalities and different eras of AS. With me, I love all of their personalities of Adult Swim, and it does shows that they cared about creativity, great storytelling, and have a wide range of diverse programming and see animation as a art form. Unlike Cartoon Network where they just fall heavily back on the market research and focusing on stuff what kids would like. Sure there's Adventure Time, Regular Show, and Steven Universe, but those were only just the exception rather the rule. Regardless how you feel about the shows, at least Adult Swim respect, understand, and cared about its audience consistently, and have fun what they're doing. If they don't, they would not be in business a long time ago.
Smiling Friends has been keeping the ship afloat with regard to comedy after the public seems to have turned on Rick and Morty. Aside from reruns, I guess Smiling Friends is what is keeping Adult Swim relevant in any way as the 2020s have not been kind to the network after it reached its commercial peak in the 2010s with Rick and Morty.
Yeah, thank god for Smiling Friends. If it wasn't for that show, then I wouldn't got into Adult Swim and its retro programming. Sure, I acknowledged Adult Swim's existence for a long time, but I was heavily focus on Cartoon Network. Now, Cartoon Network virtually have nothing else to offer, and seeing what Adult Swim was doing and with the success of Smiling Friends, I've gotten to Adult Swim more than Cartoon Network, all because of Smiling Friends.
 

PicardMan

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Oh, that's interesting. Kim Manning was in charge of Adult Swim Action? Cool. I guess maybe because OG Toonami died in 2008, Jason DeMarco took over Adult Swim Action, and for what I've heard, it did falter in the early 2010's. Now that Toonami came back on Adult Swim, AS themselves felt that there's no point of airing anime outside of Toonami, or something.

I don't know. Please educate me on this since you know the whole story a lot better than I do.

Jason Demarco took the reigns over from Kim Manning when ASA rebranded to Toonami in 2012. ASA was in terrible condition in the late 2010s and it looked like ASA was dying its last breath. Granted, there were gems that hardcore anime fans liked like Durarara!, but casuals didn't dig early 2010s ASA. It wasn't just the Toonami rebrand that made anime a big deal on Adult Swim again. Jason Demarco basically gave the block an overhaul and had more action content than when the block was called Adult Swim Action, basically jettisoning dialogue based drama anime from the block that used to be ubiquitious during Manning's tenure. I see Demarco get so much hate now, but considering how much of an improvement Nu Toonami was to ASA's final years he absolutely was a hero. I know some are upset about phasing out adult drama anime for teen action titles, but considering how much the ratings raised when he did that, it was obviously the correct decision.
 

JMTV

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Jason Demarco took the reigns over from Kim Manning when ASA rebranded to Toonami in 2012. ASA was in terrible condition in the late 2010s and it looked like ASA was dying its last breath. Granted, there were gems that hardcore anime fans liked like Durarara!, but casuals didn't dig early 2010s ASA. It wasn't just the Toonami rebrand that made anime a big deal on Adult Swim again. Jason Demarco basically gave the block an overhaul and had more action content than when the block was called Adult Swim Action, basically jettisoning dialogue based drama anime from the block that used to be ubiquitious during Manning's tenure. I see Demarco get so much hate now, but considering how much of an improvement Nu Toonami was to ASA's final years he absolutely was a hero. I know some are upset about phasing out adult drama anime for teen action titles, but considering how much the ratings raised when he did that, it was obviously the correct decision.
Okay. Thank you so much. :)
 

J'onn J'onzz

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I’ve read Manning was hired to work on programming at CN in 2002 and later AS after working at a comic shop where she recommended anime rentals to customers. A lot of her picks are niche stuff that probably appealed to Atlanta hipsters, but didn’t do well with TV audiences.

I wouldn’t be surprised if she had a role in deciding to air .hack//sign on Toonami, just because she thought it was cool. It lasted a month on Saturday afternoons, then moved to midnight on SVES. .hack//sign is a beautiful show with great music, characters, and art. But it was never going to be a success with ratings, because it is slow, talky, continuity driven, and impenetrable. These are all the hallmarks of a Manning license.

From a 2004 interview with Sean Akins, one of the Toonami creators:

TZ: New episode of Cyborg 009 and .hack have been premiering on Friday nights at 1AM. Why are they premeiring unadvertised, and how come they're not on Toonami?
SA: They don't get a number is the real answer to that. I could probably come up with some other flowerly language, but they don't get a real number. .hack is a beautiful show, Masuma-san, the director of that, actually directed the IGPX pilot. That show is difficult to understand, and really hard for the layman to get into. It's tough to be surfing around and get to that show and watch it, just because it's very complicated. So that hurts it's importance. Cyborg never really performed well, and I don't know why.

 

aegisrawks

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Jason Demarco took the reigns over from Kim Manning when ASA rebranded to Toonami in 2012. ASA was in terrible condition in the late 2010s and it looked like ASA was dying its last breath. Granted, there were gems that hardcore anime fans liked like Durarara!, but casuals didn't dig early 2010s ASA. It wasn't just the Toonami rebrand that made anime a big deal on Adult Swim again. Jason Demarco basically gave the block an overhaul and had more action content than when the block was called Adult Swim Action, basically jettisoning dialogue based drama anime from the block that used to be ubiquitious during Manning's tenure. I see Demarco get so much hate now, but considering how much of an improvement Nu Toonami was to ASA's final years he absolutely was a hero. I know some are upset about phasing out adult drama anime for teen action titles, but considering how much the ratings raised when he did that, it was obviously the correct decision.
I am one of the people that criticizes him the most but this is an absolute truth. Under his watch new Toonami reached 2 million viewers which nowadays is pretty much not possible.
 

PicardMan

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One thing I do ponder is what Toonami should do now that Crunchyroll has cut off their supply of teen centric shonen and MHA and Dr. Stone are about to end. It might be possible that Crunchyroll has found a loophole in whatever contract is helping Toonami get future seasons of MHA, so even season 7 has no guarantee of airing. The stuff they have aired recently includes a seinen zombie comedy and a girls with guns title. The tremendous success of Frieren seems to suggest that maybe the modern anime audience is more receptive to dialogue heavy anime than they were in the 00s. Being a Crunchyroll title, Frieren is of course off limits. If Frieren came out in 2005, it would probably air on ASA and be received the same way as Wolf's Rain, beloved by hardcores and ignored by the casuals. Then again, having a cute elf woman was a major reason behind its popularity. I still think isekai from Aniplex/Viz/Sentai is the genre to turn to now that Crunchyroll is off limits. Most isekai is teen wish fulfillment, but it seems to be the second biggest genre of action anime behind battle shonen.

As for comedy, the most obvious answer to the question of how to save Adult Swim comedy is make better shows than Royal Crackers. The upcoming comedy list looks pretty stacked. Safari Heist has the Genndy hype and will be his triumphant return to the comedy genre. We're having an adult comedy created by the creator of Regular Show, We even have a cartoon based on a celebrity chef, which is a totally Adult Swim premise for a cartoon.

2024 Adult Swim's highlights consist of Smiling Friends season 2, My Adventures with Superman season 2, Lycoris Recoil and Zom 100. Royal Crackers and Ninja Kamui are the midlights, and Rick and Morty the Anime is expected to be the lowlight of the year. The future looks bright at least for Adult Swim's comedy, but nobody can deny this year was very hit and miss in terms of quality. Adult Swim's had better years, but there have probably been worse years too.
 

harry580

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I wondered what if the reruns of family guy & futurama did happened on fx instead of adult swim, I mean, the network was airing king of the hill at the time so, its made sense to air those 2 shows on the network instead of adult swim

and maybe adult swim would still be cartoon network at night instead of being the place for fox reruns
 

PicardMan

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and maybe adult swim would still be cartoon network at night instead of being the place for fox reruns

All things considered, the Fox shows probably paid the bills for all their originals and anime. In their early years, Adult Swim was famous for ultra low budget programming. Well, most Adult Swim comedies seem to get acclaim for their clever writing rather than high production values. Adult Swim needs Fox to keep the lights on.
 

JMTV

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As for comedy, the most obvious answer to the question of how to save Adult Swim comedy is make better shows than Royal Crackers.
FACTS!!!! Smiling Friends shows you that we need better comedies than Royal Crackers. Royal Crackers should've belong in 2014, it's seriously that bad.

and maybe adult swim would still be cartoon network at night instead of being the place for fox reruns
Isn't that what Adult Swim is currently?
 

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All things considered, the Fox shows probably paid the bills for all their originals and anime. In their early years, Adult Swim was famous for ultra low budget programming. Well, most Adult Swim comedies seem to get acclaim for their clever writing rather than high production values. Adult Swim needs Fox to keep the lights on.
Needed. It shouldn't anymore. They've made tens of hits over the years. Question is how they promote them.

As for Crunchyroll, screw them. Get a deal with Discotek! Or maybe Retrocrush.
 

PicardMan

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Needed. It shouldn't anymore. They've made tens of hits over the years. Question is how they promote them.

The thing is that Fox shows are designed to be the most commercial, wide appeal stuff out there. Ad space for a Fox show is probably worth a lot more money than Aqua Teen Hunger Force or Robot Chicken. Adult Swim likes money too much to cut down on Fox rerun spam.

As for Crunchyroll, screw them. Get a deal with Discotek! Or maybe Retrocrush.

Toonami does have a "nothing older than Cowboy Bebop rule," but considering how much the Funiroll merger hurt them, this rule might need to be broken. I know that right now, they are probably fighting tooth and nail for MHA season 7, but if we don't get it by August, they hopefully have a backup plan.
 

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They can use Discotek at least for ToonamiRewind, which gives them YEARS of content. And they do have a few newer shows iirc too. Imo would be mutually benefitial.
 

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One thing I do ponder is what Toonami should do now that Crunchyroll has cut off their supply of teen centric shonen and MHA and Dr. Stone are about to end. It might be possible that Crunchyroll has found a loophole in whatever contract is helping Toonami get future seasons of MHA, so even season 7 has no guarantee of airing. The stuff they have aired recently includes a seinen zombie comedy and a girls with guns title. The tremendous success of Frieren seems to suggest that maybe the modern anime audience is more receptive to dialogue heavy anime than they were in the 00s. Being a Crunchyroll title, Frieren is of course off limits. If Frieren came out in 2005, it would probably air on ASA and be received the same way as Wolf's Rain, beloved by hardcores and ignored by the casuals. Then again, having a cute elf woman was a major reason behind its popularity. I still think isekai from Aniplex/Viz/Sentai is the genre to turn to now that Crunchyroll is off limits. Most isekai is teen wish fulfillment, but it seems to be the second biggest genre of action anime behind battle shonen.
I mean, Aniplex might be just as difficult because Sony owns both it and Crunchyroll.

Crunchyroll is KINDA willing to work with AS again, but only on a delay for their shows. Or if they aired years ago, like DBZ Kai. The exception is One Piece, which I heard Toei themselves supplied to Toonami, not Crunchyroll.

And of course you’re forgetting their new focus on original and first run content. Ninja Kamui has done really well, Superman moved to Toonami for S2, Lazarus and the Uzumaki miniseries are still coming, I think the Rick and Morty anime was confirmed for Toonami, and don’t be surprised if we also see Get Jiro there.
As for comedy, the most obvious answer to the question of how to save Adult Swim comedy is make better shows than Royal Crackers. The upcoming comedy list looks pretty stacked. Safari Heist has the Genndy hype and will be his triumphant return to the comedy genre. We're having an adult comedy created by the creator of Regular Show, We even have a cartoon based on a celebrity chef, which is a totally Adult Swim premise for a cartoon.
I know this sounds extremely cynical, but haven’t you noticed how most of the new lineup is tied into an existing creator or property? Get Jiro is based on a DC comic made by a celebrity chef, Common Side Effects has Mike Judge at the helm, new series from Genndy and J.G. Quintel… even Oh My God Yes and Haha You Clowns were a previously aired pilot and an AS web short series respectively, and to me it seems like a rather blatant attempt to create Smiling Friends 2 without realizing Smiling Friends got picked up because its pilot went viral immediately. (Like, if you had to adapt one recent Adult Swim Small into a series, I’d have thought it would be Gassy’s Gas n Stuff, as that’s gotten surprising gangbuster views)
2024 Adult Swim's highlights consist of Smiling Friends season 2, My Adventures with Superman season 2, Lycoris Recoil and Zom 100. Royal Crackers and Ninja Kamui are the midlights, and Rick and Morty the Anime is expected to be the lowlight of the year.
I mean, I get why the R&M anime is a lowlight, but I’d have thought you’d put Royal Crackers as a lowlight too.
The thing is that Fox shows are designed to be the most commercial, wide appeal stuff out there. Ad space for a Fox show is probably worth a lot more money than Aqua Teen Hunger Force or Robot Chicken. Adult Swim likes money too much to cut down on Fox rerun spam.
Plus, it’s much easier to use as a buffer than going from Gumball straight to Rick and Morty. And since Checkered Past seems to be falling apart, it’s clear that CN retro reruns aren’t going to cut it in this regard.
Toonami does have a "nothing older than Cowboy Bebop rule," but considering how much the Funiroll merger hurt them, this rule might need to be broken. I know that right now, they are probably fighting tooth and nail for MHA season 7, but if we don't get it by August, they hopefully have a backup plan.
I’d imagine the pre-Bebop pickups would probably be existing Toonami shows for Rewind, like the OG Sailor Moon. Maybe lighter ASA shows as well. And maybe even western cartoons- air the old seasons of Samurai Jack, or license ReBoot from Shout Factory.

(Speaking of Sailor Moon, I think main Toonami might pick up Sailor Moon Crystal at some point, especially if they can’t get anything else)
 

PicardMan

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I mean, Aniplex might be just as difficult because Sony owns both it and Crunchyroll.

Aniplex title Lycoris Recoil aired.

And of course you’re forgetting their new focus on original and first run content. Ninja Kamui has done really well, Superman moved to Toonami for S2, Lazarus and the Uzumaki miniseries are still coming, I think the Rick and Morty anime was confirmed for Toonami, and don’t be surprised if we also see Get Jiro there.

I am fully aware of their originals and a lot of fans have been very upset about their transition from acquisitions to originals as the original anime titles have all been incredibly divisive. In the first half, fans were declaring Ninja Kamu the first good Toonami original, and then the series switched focus from fluidly animated 2D action scenes to clunky CGI mecha battles with a ridiculously low framerate. It may have done well on Max, but the anime community as a whole rejected it in favor of Frieren, Kaiju No. 8, and Solo Leveling on Crunchyroll. Adult Swim has been great at making comedy, but their anime titles have always been divisive. A good portion of fans view the shift from acquisitions to incredibly divisive originals as Toonami's downfall.
 

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I know this sounds extremely cynical, but haven’t you noticed how most of the new lineup is tied into an existing creator or property? Get Jiro is based on a DC comic made by a celebrity chef, Common Side Effects has Mike Judge at the helm, new series from Genndy and J.G. Quintel… even Oh My God Yes and Haha You Clowns were a previously aired pilot and an AS web short series respectively, and to me it seems like a rather blatant attempt to create Smiling Friends 2 without realizing Smiling Friends got picked up because its pilot went viral immediately
I mean, you're not wrong. But at least Adult Swim's upcoming programming were a lot more interesting than Cartoon Network was.
(Like, if you had to adapt one recent Adult Swim Small into a series, I’d have thought it would be Gassy’s Gas n Stuff, as that’s gotten surprising gangbuster views)
I haven't seen Gassy's Gas n Stuff until I saw your comment. For what I'd seen, it's cute, but nothing mind-blowing. I guess maybe because Ha Ha You Clowns had the most potential than Gassy, but I have no idea.
I mean, I get why the R&M anime is a lowlight, but I’d have thought you’d put Royal Crackers as a lowlight too.
As much as I don't like Royal Crackers all that much, at least I can say it's better than Mr. Pickles (and that's a pretty damn low bar).
Plus, it’s much easier to use as a buffer than going from Gumball straight to Rick and Morty. And since Checkered Past seems to be falling apart, it’s clear that CN retro reruns aren’t going to cut it in this regard.
(sighs) I don't know. As much as I'm not a big fan of where Checkered Past is heading, if AS get rid of CKP, then no more CN Classics on TV again. Then, where CN Classics supposed to go, especially a lot classics got removed from Max? Cartoon Network can't. Boomerang can't. At this point, we're stuck.
 

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Crunchyroll is KINDA willing to work with AS again, but only on a delay for their shows. Or if they aired years ago, like DBZ Kai. The exception is One Piece, which I heard Toei themselves supplied to Toonami, not Crunchyroll.
Kai is also being supplied by Toei. We have not had a non sequel Crunchyroll pickup since Gridman in 2020. Rewind also has no CR titles and had to fallback on Naruto which is kind of an odd duck next to SM and DBZ.
Speaking of Sailor Moon, I think main Toonami might pick up Sailor Moon Crystal at some point, especially if they can’t get anything else)
Let’s hope not because Crystal is terrible and it will be much more obvious airing at the same time as the original. If they can afford Crystal, they can afford some less popular shows from Sentai or Viz.
They can use Discotek at least for ToonamiRewind, which gives them YEARS of content. And they do have a few newer shows iirc too. Imo would be mutually benefitial.
The problem with that is most of the stuff Discotek has that aired on old Toonami isn’t that popular. Seeing today’s schedule change, the ratings are likely already slipping, so they are only going to look for powerhouse titles. Similar to how Checkered Past isn’t airing niche CN shows.
 

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