Another "Should Toonami end?" thread

[Space Cadet]

Nah, let the block run as much as it can. At this point, it's probably the only block that's lasted this long. If my math is right, if the block lasts past March 2024, it will actually have been on AS longer than when it was on CN, which is crazy to think about. I understand what wonderfly is saying about going out on a high note but I have a feeling that if Toonami ever ends, then anime may or may not have a future on the network, which would suck if that would happen. It's the only block at this point on American tv that still airs anime on a consistent basis and non-toyetic ones too.

Also, The Simpsons being on so long means that there are people who prefer the newer stuff compared to the old stuff, lol.

 

[Ace]

Funny how we've come full circle here.

but I think the reason they have One Piece and Naruto is because they're some of the most popular anime. Lots of people grew up watching this stuff and they're some of the most recognizable ones and there's like hundreds of episodes of each so there's certainly plenty of people out there who still haven't seen all of them yet.

 

[Space Cadet]

Funny how we've come full circle here.

but I think the reason they have One Piece and Naruto is because they're some of the most popular anime. Lots of people grew up watching this stuff and they're some of the most recognizable ones and there's like hundreds of episodes of each so there's certainly plenty of people out there who still haven't seen all of them yet.

I'm not expecting a big increase or anything but with the One Piece live-action show now out on Netflix, it would be cool to see some people getting interested in the series and watch the episodes on Toonami.

 

[Daikun]

Perhaps I'm just musing: "Why can't they keep the exact same block of programming - keep airing exactly what's on the block right now on Saturday nights - but remove TOM and SARA?"

Then it wouldn't be Toonami anymore. It would just be...Adult Swim Action again. A step backward.
Remember how ASA's lineup became extremely stale during its final few years, being just hour-long blocks of Big O 2, FLCL, Cowboy Bebop, GitS:SAC, and whatever lingering leftovers AS had running nonstop for a decade? Do we really want that again?

 

[miraimike]

I wonder if it would benefit from being a more “live” social experience. Streaming has everything, but it doesn’t have the same sense of shared community. Integrate certain live tweets (if possible) into the bottom scroll of the show.

Ultimately, there needs to be a community that latches onto this block.

 

[harry580]

so, it is a joke?, or just some controversial opinion

 

[wonderfly]

Then it wouldn't be Toonami anymore. It would just be...Adult Swim Action again. A step backward.
Remember how ASA's lineup became extremely stale during its final few years, being just hour-long blocks of Big O 2, FLCL, Cowboy Bebop, GitS:SAC, and whatever lingering leftovers AS had running nonstop for a decade? Do we really want that again?

I was advocating keeping largely the same 3 to 4 hours of "action/anime" programming on Saturday nights, just removing the Toonami bumpers.

If the reason people are watching is the programs themselves, not the bumpers, then it wouldn't hurt. This would allow the TOM and SARA (and Absolution spaceship) to get a finale to their storyarc, which is partly what I'm craving.

On the other hand, this thread was partially driven by fear of the collapse of cable and wanting Toonami to end on a high note, before things get REALLY bad for Cable TV. In a "Best case scenario" situation, I'd want Toonami to continue as a streaming block on Crunchyroll. With new episodes premiering every Saturday night on the streaming service (kinda like how new episodes of Ahsoka are premiering every Tuesday night right now on Disney Plus).

In that scenario, with Toonami freed from the grasp of cable, it can continue for years (and I can watch it again, with a Crunchyroll subscription). It could be the 3rd lease on life for the programming block (and maybe under Crunchyroll directly, they can have access to a better selection of anime).

But perhaps we'll just see what Toonami looks like a year or two after "Attack on Titan" ends. Maybe it can continue to draw from Western Animation, and it'll be less of an "Anime" block and more of a "Action" block. I'll have to wrap my head around that, but that might be the way to go. Unless cable continues to collapse.

 

[SuperSuck64]

I thought Toonami would be among the first to go after the disastrous merger, but to my surprise it's still here, and I think I know why: it's a whole block of shows Warner/AS don't have to spend a single penny making. They can just license anime for a substantially lower fee and rake in the ratings and advertising money. It's hardly the first time it worked; once Pokemon became a massive hit, they immediately shuttered all of Spielberg/Ruegger and Kids WB's output because replacing it with anime was a low risk, high reward alternative.

I don't have faith that TOM and the beloved bumpers are going to stick around forever, though. I can just hear Zaslav asking why they're wasting so much money making commercials when everyone just fast forwards through those and all that money would be better spent on awful reality shows and more desperate attempts to keep their floundering cinematic universe relevant.

 

[Golden Geek]

I wonder if it would benefit from being a more “live” social experience. Streaming has everything, but it doesn’t have the same sense of shared community. Integrate certain live tweets (if possible) into the bottom scroll of the show.

Ultimately, there needs to be a community that latches onto this block.

The most dedicated communities for Toonami probably exist here, Reddit, UnevenEdge, and 4chan. I don't think scrolling tweets would make this any better, especially with the current state of Twitter (I'm not calling it you-know-what).

 

[harry580]

this thread is just like this image over here:

 

[[classic swim]]

UnevenEdge

<3

I’ve heard rotten things about /co/ but that’s probably still the one with the most Toonami fanfare.

 

[Light Lucario]

I was advocating keeping largely the same 3 to 4 hours of "action/anime" programming on Saturday nights, just removing the Toonami bumpers.

If the reason people are watching is the programs themselves, not the bumpers, then it wouldn't hurt. This would allow the TOM and SARA (and Absolution spaceship) to get a finale to their storyarc, which is partly what I'm craving.

People may not be watching the block for the bumpers, but I don't think that removing them would be an improvement either. I think I have a hard time understanding the need for TOM and SARA to have a finale to their storyline. I can understand wanting closure for something that you've watched for a long time, but like I said before, I think that's taking the characters who are basically hosts of a weekly block aimed at teenagers/young adults a bit too seriously.

On the other hand, this thread was partially driven by fear of the collapse of cable and wanting Toonami to end on a high note, before things get REALLY bad for Cable TV. In a "Best case scenario" situation, I'd want Toonami to continue as a streaming block on Crunchyroll. With new episodes premiering every Saturday night on the streaming service (kinda like how new episodes of Ahsoka are premiering every Tuesday night right now on Disney Plus).

In that scenario, with Toonami freed from the grasp of cable, it can continue for years (and I can watch it again, with a Crunchyroll subscription). It could be the 3rd lease on life for the programming block (and maybe under Crunchyroll directly, they can have access to a better selection of anime).

The state of cable TV is certainly beyond their control, so they can't really just end the block just because things might get worse. Toonami continuing to exist on Crunchyroll would be a nice option under the best case scenario though.

But perhaps we'll just see what Toonami looks like a year or two after "Attack on Titan" ends. Maybe it can continue to draw from Western Animation, and it'll be less of an "Anime" block and more of a "Action" block. I'll have to wrap my head around that, but that might be the way to go. Unless cable continues to collapse.

Toonami has always been an Action block though. Even after it was revived on Adult Swim, I thought DeMarco said that it was still an action block instead of just being seen as an anime block. Anime is a big part of the block's history, but I think that's due to anime being relatively easier to acquire and there aren't a lot of animated action series that would be appealing to Adult Swim audiences.

 

[harry580]

makes me wonder, what if toonami was relaunched on cartoon network 1 year earlier (like in 2011?)

 

[wonderfly]

Don't have too much more to say, but:

Toonami has always been an Action block though. Even after it was revived on Adult Swim, I thought DeMarco said that it was still an action block instead of just being seen as an anime block. Anime is a big part of the block's history, but I think that's due to anime being relatively easier to acquire and there aren't a lot of animated action series that would be appealing to Adult Swim audiences.

It seems to me that Toonami was at a pivotal moment back in 2013/2014, when they were including on their block stuff like "Star Wars: Clone Wars", "Thundercats", "Sym-Bionic TItan" and "Samurai Jack" (and those were reruns).

They could've expanded on that, but then came the big reduction in the block in 2015, and they focused on bringing back Dragon Ball Z Kai and then eventually Dragon Ball Super. From 2015 to 2020, I thought they had settled in to being just an anime block.

Since 2020 though, they've slowly started shifting back to airing Western animation stuff (starting with "Primal", and I only recently became aware they were airing "My Adventures with Superman" and "Unicorn: Warriors Eternal").

I've think I've previously mentioned I think the ideal balance would be:

1/3rd of the block is "new" anime premieres, 1/3rd is "Western Animation", and 1/3rd is "Toonami Classics" (a retro block). Maybe we can get close to that going forward.

 

[Light Lucario]

Don't have too much more to say, but:



It seems to me that Toonami was at a pivotal moment back in 2013/2014, when they were including on their block stuff like "Star Wars: Clone Wars", "Thundercats", "Sym-Bionic TItan" and "Samurai Jack" (and those were reruns).

They could've expanded on that, but then came the big reduction in the block in 2015, and they focused on bringing back Dragon Ball Z Kai and then eventually Dragon Ball Super. From 2015 to 2020, I thought they had settled in to being just an anime block.

The fact that both Thundercats and Sym-Bionic Titan were written off did not help matters for them. It's also just harder to pick up western animated series that would fit the block when there isn't a ton that would work for the block and most of the ones that are around are exclusive to streaming sites. Young Justice would be perfect for Toonami, but WB would rather keep it exclusive to Max.

Since 2020 though, they've slowly started shifting back to airing Western animation stuff (starting with "Primal", and I only recently became aware they were airing "My Adventures with Superman" and "Unicorn: Warriors Eternal").

I've think I've previously mentioned I think the ideal balance would be:

1/3rd of the block is "new" anime premieres, 1/3rd is "Western Animation", and 1/3rd is "Toonami Classics" (a retro block). Maybe we can get close to that going forward.

It's hard for me to see those shows as Toonami series or that they're slowly shifting back to Western animation when the block is airing reruns instead of premiers. I don't know if I could see them devoting that much to Toonami Classics, if only because of how expensive it would be to get them, but using a slot to give exposure to an older series wouldn't be bad.

 

[wonderfly]

Maybe my ideal block is more like this:
1st hour: The New Anime
2nd hour: Western Animation (newer stuff)
3rd hour: The never ending series (One Piece and Naruto Shippuden)
4th hour: Retro block (pick from stuff like Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell, Big O, Samurai Jack)

It's hard for me to see those shows as Toonami series or that they're slowly shifting back to Western animation when the block is airing reruns instead of premiers. I don't know if I could see them devoting that much to Toonami Classics, if only because of how expensive it would be to get them, but using a slot to give exposure to an older series wouldn't be bad.

Isn't "My Adventures with Superman" airing on Toonami a day later after it airs on Adult Swim? That's still in the "premiere week" window, it's not like Toonami is getting them 6 months later. I'm considering it and "Unicorn: Warriors Eternal" as just one step away from "Toonami originals", personally.

But I'm getting off my original point (which was a concern for the state of Toonami on cable, and "when is it an appropriate time to end?"), to which I've seen some good responses.

 

[Light Lucario]

Isn't "My Adventures with Superman" airing on Toonami a day later after it airs on Adult Swim? That's still in the "premiere week" window, it's not like Toonami is getting them 6 months later. I'm considering it and "Unicorn: Warriors Eternal" as just one step away from "Toonami originals", personally.

I think it's more like a couple of days later. I've never really heard of a premiere week window before. They are still reruns as opposed to premieres. It doesn't matter if it's six months or a couple of days later in that regard. Maybe I'm just being too focused on the details here, but I don't remember people considering Primal to be a Toonami series when it was airing reruns on the block, so I don't see why those series should be considered so close to Toonami originals, especially when Toonami is not involved with the production of any of those three series either.

 

[Trueblade74]

We don't know if Cartoon Network is still going to exist by the end of next year. We're all counting down the days until Zaslav sells Time Warner to Disney.
I'd really like Toonami to live, but it needs to be worth watching again and not be a nest of reruns.

 

[Jeff Harris]

We don't know if Cartoon Network is still going to exist by the end of next year. We're all counting down the days until Zaslav sells Time Warner to Disney.
I'd really like Toonami to live, but it needs to be worth watching again and not be a nest of reruns.

Okay, first of all, Zaslav is not going to sell Warner to Disney. Disney has its own set of problems and doesn't have enough money to buy them (and even if they did, the government won't allow them to buy that company), so get that idea out of your head.

Second, in case you all haven't been paying attention, cable is about 97% reruns, and guess what?

It always has been.

We're just now realizing that because we have all of these shows available on streaming outlets, the linear networks don't showcase a variety of shows as they used to because they're trying to pimp streaming as the next big thing.

Streaming doesn't make enough money, but these big companies are pushing it so hard because they want to stop paying cable fees (the whole Disney-Charter fight could make or break the industry). Of course, fees would easily transfer to broadband access, so, they're not going away so easily.

There is no reason why linear cable lineups are so horrible and limiting in an era where these companies own tons of walled gardens and convince themselves they can grow their businesses outside the greenhouses that birthed them. The media spin of "Almost half of the audiences are watching streaming services" could easily be read as "More than half of audiences are watching linear networks," and the agenda they're trying to push is the headline they go with and consumers believe.

There's still a place for a block like Toonami on television. Even with all the cutbacks and cancelations that have occurred throughout Warner Bros Discovery, Toonami is still considered a valuable brand and priority not only for the Adult Swim block but for WBD globally. Unfortunately, there's a near-monopoly that has limited what could be shown on the linear block itself.

That's why you're seeing more investments in original programming happening, and they've been preparing for the future. Warner knows they have to create and hone their own original titles in the marketplace. On the flip side of the same coin, they have to make money outside of their walled gardens, which is why you see Warner Bros Japan-produced fare like Food Wars, Eizouken, and Jojo on other outlets and streamers.

So, why should Toonami exist? Because there's literally nothing else like it on linear television anymore. Folks still watch it. Granted, it's not in the millions the original incarnation used to get, but then again, what DOES get that kind of rating outside of sports and news these days?

If YOU'RE not watching it, that's okay because somebody else is.

And even if it's gone, do you know what will be in that slot?

More King of the Hill and American Dad reruns, at least while Disney still offers them. More of the same old things Adult Swim airs outside of Toonami. And that's it.

You get rid of Toonami, you get rid of action cartoons, and a regularly-scheduled anime showcase on American television. You'd probably get a few random premieres on a Thursday night, but nothing like what Toonami has offered for the past 11+ years on Adult Swim.

I know Toonami could be a lot more than it is. I honestly think it should expand beyond its weekly slot. But do I think it should end?

Hell no.