"Batman: Caped Crusader (Amazon Prime)" Animated Series News & Discussion Part 2 (Spoilers)

[Rick Jones]

Just because I'm the type to over-analyze minor things, I took notice of that scene of Selina in what looks like the backseat of a car in full Catwoman costume. Which could imply a few things:

- She has someone (Maven?) who drives her around and assists her with her crimes.

- She's changing out of her costume from the backseat of her car (hence her mask being off).

- She's been arrested (though it doesn't look like a GCPD squad car) .

Now I'm randomly remembering that the last time I saw Christina Ricci in a movie where she was admiring a guy's car was Speed Racer.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

...and Maxwell Collins/Gene Colon/Don Newton

Max Allan Collins. Gene Colan. But it was Gerry Conway and Doug Moench writing Batman when Colan and Newton were on the books, not Max Allan Collins.

I took notice of that scene of Selina in what looks like the backseat of a car in full Catwoman costume. Which could imply a few things:

- She's been arrested (though it doesn't look like a GCPD squad car) .

Arrested is my guess.

Four split screens in the space of 30 seconds is a LOT, IMO. I also have concerns over Batman intentionally hitting crooks with the Batmobile, but I'll see where they go with it.

 

[Otaku-sempai]

Max Allan Collins. Gene Colan. But it was Gerry Conway and Doug Moench writing Batman when Colan and Newton were on the books, not Max Allan Collins.

Yeah, I should have recalled that Gerry was one of the co-creators of Killer Croc. But Max Collins was one of the writers of '80s Batman as well (as was Mike Barr). In particular, Collins wrote the retcon of Jason Todd's origin.

 

[PicardMan]

Four split screens in the space of 30 seconds is a LOT, IMO. I also have concerns over Batman intentionally hitting crooks with the Batmobile, but I'll see where they go with it.

I do wonder if this is trying to portray a Batman who kills, or are they using the trope where regular unpowered criminals are able to survive things they realistically shouldn't survive? It seems like most superhero media contains scenes where heroes use force on regular thugs that realistically should permanently cripple, kill, or do serious permanent harm to them, yet they shrug it off and continue to fight the superhero or surrender with minor injuries.

 

[Medinnus]

In particular, Collins wrote the retcon of Jason Todd's origin.

Max Allan Collins is an amazing prose crime/mystery genre writer; his Nathan Heller and Elliot Ness series are fantastic, and as a bookseller I sold the heck of of them to my customers. Highly recommended, especially for fans of the whole Batman-Noir Gotham City.

 

[Otaku-sempai]

Max Allan Collins is an amazing prose crime/mystery genre writer; his Nathan Heller and Elliot Ness series are fantastic, and as a bookseller I sold the heck of of them to my customers. Highly recommended, especially for fans of the whole Batman-Noir Gotham City.

I do love the Nate Heller books. Max Collins' "disaster mysteries" are pretty terrific too!

End of digression.

 

[Millicay]

I do wonder if this is trying to portray a Batman who kills, or are they using the trope where regular unpowered criminals are able to survive things they realistically shouldn't survive? It seems like most superhero media contains scenes where heroes use force on regular thugs that realistically should permanently cripple, kill, or do serious permanent harm to them, yet they shrug it off and continue to fight the superhero or surrender with minor injuries.

Eh, I'm thinking it's more of a "flying anvil" type of thing. Pretty much every thug who gets knocked out for more than a few seconds should have lasting brain damage if we go that route, but at the end of the day it's just cartoon logic.

What was that line for the DCAU? If you don't see the body, and if the body isn't buried or cremated, assume they're alive?

 

[Yojimbo]

It looked like he performed a controlled side swipe using his bumper. It's not like he ran them over at full speed. And not that it justifies it but if that's the same segment, he did that to protect the officers in the police cars chasing them. He cut off the police cars and did the controlled move to neutralize the criminals shooting at him and/or the police. Depending on jurisdictions, police do have training using their cars in an extreme situation.

 

[Medinnus]

It looked like he performed a controlled side swipe using his bumper. It's not like he ran them over at full speed. And not that it justifies it but if that's the same segment, he did that to protect the officers in the police cars chasing them. He cut off the police cars and did the controlled move to neutralize the criminals shooting at him and/or the police. Depending on jurisdictions, police do have training using their cars in an extreme situation.

Heh. First of all, arguing realism in comics, anime, or comic animation is really the ultimate exercise in idiocy - and having said that, I am now going to be an idiot LOL. Regardless of how skilled the driver, impacts that cause that much target movement would result in severe injury or death. For a LEO, the driver would likely be exonerated by an incident review board... but in this case the driver wasn't a LEO.

 

[Yojimbo]

Heh. First of all, arguing realism in comics, anime, or comic animation is really the ultimate exercise in idiocy - and having said that, I am now going to be an idiot LOL. Regardless of how skilled the driver, impacts that cause that much target movement would result in severe injury or death. For a LEO, the driver would likely be exonerated by an incident review board... but in this case the driver wasn't a LEO.

True. And given this show is 'week two' - it would add to the uncertainty and suspicion people like Jim Gordon would be casting towards Batman. Batman saved the lives of several police officers on one hand but on the other is not a duly designated officer of the law that took matters into his own hands to cause bodily harm even paralysis or death to several individuals, armed and attempting to kill, but still.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Yeah, I should have recalled that Gerry was one of the co-creators of Killer Croc. But Max Collins was one of the writers of '80s Batman as well (as was Mike Barr). In particular, Collins wrote the retcon of Jason Todd's origin.

Yes, but my point was that Max Allan Collins didn't work with either Gene Colan or Don Newton when he was writing Batman, unlike the other teams you listed, like Denny O'Neil/Neal Adams and Steve Englehart/Marshall Rogers. He worked with a variety of artists in a short amount of time (six different pencilers over the course of just seven issues and half an annual, which is a LOT). That's one of the reasons why Collins' run isn't terribly well-remembered.

Gerry Conway and Doug Moench both worked with Don Newton and Gene Colan, they both wrote the character for a significant amount of time, and they both left a significant impact on Batman. Collins is a footnote at best, even though he's the guy who introduced Jason Todd's street kid origin and the notion that Batman "fired" Dick Grayson as Robin.

I do wonder if this is trying to portray a Batman who kills, or are they using the trope where regular unpowered criminals are able to survive things they realistically shouldn't survive?

Yeah, Batman intentionally sideswiping three crooks with the Batmobile and having it only knock the wind out of them is a bit much, IMO.

 

[PicardMan]

Yeah, Batman intentionally sideswiping three crooks with the Batmobile and having it only knock the wind out of them is a bit much, IMO.

Yeah, this is definitely going past most people's suspension of disbelief. Batman knocking people unconscious or punching people through a brick wall without causing permanent grievous damage is something we are used to, but there does appear to be a limit. I know there are many "Batman kill count in movie/show X" videos on Youtube where most of these seem to count how many times does Batman does something that would realistically kill somebody (except Tim Burton and Zack Snyder's Batman, who explicitly kill). I think the trope is less jarring in animation than live action. Nobody's done a Batman: The Animated Series Kill Count yet (maybe the censors did help the series in toning down this trope as the force uses to take down criminals feels more realistic). Will we get a Batman: Caped Crusader Kill Count Video on Youtube?

 

[Millicay]

Nobody's done a Batman: The Animated Series Kill Count yet (maybe the censors did help the series in toning down this trope as the force uses to take down criminals feels more realistic).

This is definitely it. There are MANY times when the thugs should absolutely be dead, but there was always the obligatory "oh they're ok" shot after.

 

[Medinnus]

This is definitely it. There are MANY times when the thugs should absolutely be dead, but there was always the obligatory "oh they're ok" shot after.

This was very explicit in aerial combat in series like the myriad GI Joe or Hulk series, where the damaged aircraft always had the pilot shown in a parachute.

 

[RoyalRubble]

Maybe this Batmobile is like the rubber bullets in "The Dark Knight Returns". Non-lethal but still painful.

 

[Frontier]

Arrested is my guess.

I definitely got the vibe it was from the end of her episode.

True. And given this show is 'week two' - it would add to the uncertainty and suspicion people like Jim Gordon would be casting towards Batman. Batman saved the lives of several police officers on one hand but on the other is not a duly designated officer of the law that took matters into his own hands to cause bodily harm even paralysis or death to several individuals, armed and attempting to kill, but still.

It's also probably intentional because this Batman is so cold and pragmatic that you're supposed to be left wondering how much he really cares about people or human life when he's so uncompromising towards criminals and acts detached from everything else.

I think it's telling that the most "human" thing they've talked about this Batman is that Catwoman can still get him hot and bothered, and that bothers him so much he has to double down on putting her in prison .

Maybe this Batmobile is like the rubber bullets in "The Dark Knight Returns". Non-lethal but still painful.

Yeah, I don't think he's going to be as "vehicular homicide" as Batfleck was .

 

[PicardMan]

It's also probably intentional because this Batman is so cold and pragmatic that you're supposed to be left wondering how much he really cares about people or human life when he's so uncompromising towards criminals and acts detached from everything else.

This is one way this series will contrast with Batman: The Animated Series. That incarnation of Batman seemed to sometimes act as Battherapist to his rogues. It is interesting that despite it being darker than similar cartoons of the era, BTAS is actually one of the least bleak incarnations of Batman, and that's a good thing. It seemed to humanize the rogues to be tortured souls suffering from severe psychological issues and Joker was one of the rare "evil for giggles" villains with no sympathetic qualities. Batman is open to interpretation and this could work depending on execution and at the very least, this should be able to clear the lower bar of the 2004 Batman cartoon and Beware the Batman but reaching BTAS will be the harder bar to clear.

 

[Frontier]

This is one way this series will contrast with Batman: The Animated Series. That incarnation of Batman seemed to sometimes act as Battherapist to his rogues. It is interesting that despite it being darker than similar cartoons of the era, BTAS is actually one of the least bleak incarnations of Batman, and that's a good thing. It seemed to humanize the rogues to be tortured souls suffering from severe psychological issues and Joker was one of the rare "evil for giggles" villains with no sympathetic qualities. Batman is open to interpretation and this could work depending on execution and at the very least, this should be able to clear the lower bar of the 2004 Batman cartoon and Beware the Batman but reaching BTAS will be the harder bar to clear.

Yeah, honestly that's one thing I'm really curious about because I feel like Batman's humanity and empathy are big parts of his character and this feels like it's swerving away from that...though I guess that's following closely to his Golden Age depiction.

 

[PicardMan]

Yeah, honestly that's one thing I'm really curious about because I feel like Batman's humanity and empathy are big parts of his character and this feels like it's swerving away from that...though I guess that's following closely to his Golden Age depiction.

I don't know if he'll punch people off buildings to their deaths. I know the stereotype of Golden Age Batman was that he killed with guns, but knocking villains off buildings seemed to be his preferred method of killing (or into a vat of chemicals like how he gave death to Dr. Death in Detective Comics 27).

 

[RoyalRubble]

Minor but here's a new promo image of Batman. It's the background art on Amazon Prime Video's page for the show.