Do Chowder and Flapjack really count as CN Classics?

[Dillon Arias]

Does Chowder and Flapjack really count as classics even if they both ended in the early 2010’s

 

[Surreal Kangaroo]

Even though they don’t really feel like classics to me, I can see how they would qualify. I think some people use Adventure Time as the turning point.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

Does Chowder and Flapjack really count as classics even if they both ended in the early 2010’s

I would think so, in my opinion.

 

[JMTV]

Yeah, kind of.

 

[Mostezli]

If shows are that rewatchable, that's certainly enough for a "classic" status.
Although, I haven't seen much of Flapjack.

 

[Red Arrow]

They both ended over 10 years go. Where else to put them on HBO Max?

 

[5YearsOnEastCoast]

I would say that they do count.

 

[JTOONSAnimation]

At this point, I'd call anything that ended around or pre-2010 a classic. Flapjack and Chowder still look like they could be modern (when in HD), but they are pretty much classics at this point.

 

[Darklordavaitor]

As of late, I've been of the mind that Cartoon Network's originals can be pinned down to two main eras, 1996-2009, and 2010 to the present day. At the time, Chowder and Flapjack looked more like the start of a new period, but they were really more of the end of a dying era.

I can understand the resistance towards calling them classics, but I think they qualify, personally.

 

[Light Lucario]

Yeah, I'd say that they count as well. I'm not sure if I'd consider them classics myself, mainly because I haven't watched either series in ages, but both Chowder and Flapjack ended over ten years ago. That's more than enough time for them to be considered classic shows for the people who grew up watching them.

 

[wonderfly]

As of late, I've been of the mind that Cartoon Network's originals can be pinned down to two main eras, 1996-2009, and 2010 to the present day. At the time, Chowder and Flapjack looked more like the start of a new period, but they were really more of the end of a dying era.

Good analysis. Back in 2004, people thought the premiere of "Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends" and "Megas XLR" marked the turning point (especially when combined with the end of "Johnny Bravo", "Dexter's Lab" and "Samurai Jack" all around that same time period). Anything prior to "Fosters" was supposed to be a Cartoon Network classic, but the "City" era did a great job of combining all of past and present Cartoon Network together in a way that worked.

Chowder and Flapjack premiered after the "City" era ended (in 2007 and 2008), so they never got to hang out in the "City" promo segments, to feel like they were part of the same community of cartoons, so they were meant to be the start of the new era....but then Cartoon Network did a reset and started over again in 2010.

I think we were originally supposed to see "Squirrel Boy" and "Class of 3000" (both premiered in 2006) as the last of the "classics". The way Cartoon Network probably originally envisioned the 2007/2008 era was to have the Noods era last 5 years (until 2013), but cable/the economy/everything changed in the late 2000's, so they ended up doing the reset in 2010.

Thus, "Chowder" and "Flapjack" (both of which ended in August, 2010) are surprisingly the last remnants of "classic Cartoon Network". EDIT: And yes, "The Secret Saturdays" as well (it premiered in 2008, ended in January 2010).

EDIT 2: I have sometimes maintained the "end point" of classic Cartoon Network was the final "Ed, Edd n Eddy" movie in November, 2009, and so maybe just consider the remaining episodes of "Chowder" and "Flapjack" that premiered in 2010 as just remnants of the prior "classic" era.

 

[Darklordavaitor]

Good analysis. Back in 2004, people thought the premiere of "Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends" and "Megas XLR" marked the turning point (especially when combined with the end of "Johnny Bravo", "Dexter's Lab" and "Samurai Jack" all around that same time period). Anything prior to "Fosters" was supposed to be a Cartoon Network classic, but the "City" era did a great job of combining all of past and present Cartoon Network together in a way that worked.

Chowder and Flapjack premiered after the "City" era ended (in 2007 and 2008), so they never got to hang out in the "City" promo segments, to feel like they were part of the same community of cartoons, so they were meant to be the start of the new era....but then Cartoon Network did a reset and started over again in 2010.

I think we were originally supposed to see "Squirrel Boy" and "Class of 3000" (both premiered in 2006) as the last of the "classics". The way Cartoon Network probably originally envisioned the 2007/2008 era was to have the Noods era last 5 years (until 2013), but cable/the economy/everything changed in the late 2000's, so they ended up doing the reset in 2010.

Thus, "Chowder" and "Flapjack" (both of which ended in August, 2010) are surprisingly the last remnants of "classic Cartoon Network". EDIT: And yes, "The Secret Saturdays" as well (it premiered in 2008, ended in January 2010).

EDIT 2: I have sometimes maintained the "end point" of classic Cartoon Network was the final "Ed, Edd n Eddy" movie in November, 2009, and so maybe just consider the remaining episodes of "Chowder" and "Flapjack" that premiered in 2010 as just remnants of the prior "classic" era.

I know many consider 2004-2009 to be the second era of Cartoon Network's originals, but rather I think that there are a few smaller waves in the first phase of their run.

Wave 1- 1996-1998, aka What-A-Cartoon/Checkerboard era- Dexter's Lab, Johnny Bravo, Cow & Chicken/I Am Weasel, and Powerpuff Girls all debut in this space, with the shows premiering on different days of the week.

Wave 2- 1999-2003, aka Cartoon Cartoon/Powerhouse era- Ed, Edd n' Eddy, Courage, Billy & Mandy, Samurai Jack, Kids Next Door and others all premiere during this time, with a designated block made for these shows, Cartoon Cartoon Fridays. Dexter's Lab and Cow & Chicken/I Am Weasel end in 99, although the former comes back, while the networks starts seeing failed originals with Mike, Lu & Og and Sheep in the Big City, among others.

Wave 3- 2004-2007, aka Fridays/City era- Most of the early originals will end in about a year's time, with Dexter's Lab, Samurai Jack, Powerpuff Girls and Johnny Bravo are gone by mid-05. Meanwhile, not only do Ed, Edd n' Eddy, Billy & Mandy, and Kids Next Door thrive, and new originals of mixed levels of quality and success arrive, such as Megas XLR, Foster's Home, Camp Lazlo, Gym Partner, Ben 10, and others. CCF turns into the Friday's block, which airs many of these originals along with other series, like What's New Scooby-Doo, Duck Dodgers, and Atomic Betty.

Wave 4- 2007-early 2010, aka Noods/Fried Dynamite era- A majority of the shows from the previous era ended their runs and have their airings cut back from the channel. Originals start premiering less frequently, but we do receive a few, primarily Chowder, Flapjack, and the Secret Saturdays. Each have their fans, but none tend to blow up the way some of CN's previous hits have. Fridays turns into Fried Dynamite before its own implosion, with Friday nights turned into an action block, and Chowder and Flapjack having Thursday premieres.

There are definitely differences in each of these phases, but I think it's still roughly the same channel. I do think that there was a definite change by the time Adventure Time premiered in 2010, and we're still more or less living in that world.

That said, have you noticed that since 1996, the only years to not have a premiere of a Cartoon Network original on the channel were 2003 (unless you count the original Clone Wars), 2009, and 2020?

 

[wonderfly]

I know many consider 2004-2009 to be the second era of Cartoon Network's originals, but rather I think that there are a few smaller waves in the first phase of their run.

Wave 1- 1996-1998, aka What-A-Cartoon/Checkerboard era- Dexter's Lab, Johnny Bravo, Cow & Chicken/I Am Weasel, and Powerpuff Girls all debut in this space, with the shows premiering on different days of the week.

Wave 2- 1999-2003, aka Cartoon Cartoon/Powerhouse era- Ed, Edd n' Eddy, Courage, Billy & Mandy, Samurai Jack, Kids Next Door and others all premiere during this time, with a designated block made for these shows, Cartoon Cartoon Fridays. Dexter's Lab and Cow & Chicken/I Am Weasel end in 99, although the former comes back, while the networks starts seeing failed originals with Mike, Lu & Og and Sheep in the Big City, among others.

I'll go one step further and say the transition from what you call "Wave 1" to "Wave 2" is the premiere of Powerpuff Girls in November, 1998. I consider that the true start of the "Powerhouse" era.

Wave 3- 2004-2007, aka Fridays/City era- Most of the early originals will end in about a year's time, with Dexter's Lab, Samurai Jack, Powerpuff Girls and Johnny Bravo are gone by mid-05. Meanwhile, not only do Ed, Edd n' Eddy, Billy & Mandy, and Kids Next Door thrive, and new originals of mixed levels of quality and success arrive, such as Megas XLR, Foster's Home, Camp Lazlo, Gym Partner, Ben 10, and others. CCF turns into the Friday's block, which airs many of these originals along with other series, like What's New Scooby-Doo, Duck Dodgers, and Atomic Betty.

Wave 4- 2007-early 2010, aka Noods/Fried Dynamite era- A majority of the shows from the previous era ended their runs and have their airings cut back from the channel. Originals start premiering less frequently, but we do receive a few, primarily Chowder, Flapjack, and the Secret Saturdays. Each have their fans, but none tend to blow up the way some of CN's previous hits have. Fridays turns into Fried Dynamite before its own implosion, with Friday nights turned into an action block, and Chowder and Flapjack having Thursday premieres.

There are definitely differences in each of these phases, but I think it's still roughly the same channel. I do think that there was a definite change by the time Adventure Time premiered in 2010, and we're still more or less living in that world.

That said, have you noticed that since 1996, the only years to not have a premiere of a Cartoon Network original on the channel were 2003 (unless you count the original Clone Wars), 2009, and 2020?

Yes, it used to be that lots of people debated what was the "end point" for Cartoon Network (and it's mostly tied in to their preferences, or when they "grew up"). There were fans that had trouble adapting to the City era in 2004, others who didn't like the Fall/Noods era.....but the consistency (or rather, the "fixed" status) of Cartoon Network since Adventure Time premiered in 2010 (and especially for Cartoon Network since 2013 onward, with the "death of the Action cartoons"), leads to people considering anything prior to 2010 as "Classic Era".

 

[Darklordavaitor]

I'll go one step further and say the transition from what you call "Wave 1" to "Wave 2" is the premiere of Powerpuff Girls in November, 1998. I consider that the true start of the "Powerhouse" era.




Yes, it used to be that lots of people debated what was the "end point" for Cartoon Network (and it's mostly tied in to their preferences, or when they "grew up"). There were fans that had trouble adapting to the City era in 2004, others who didn't like the Fall/Noods era.....but the consistency (or rather, the "fixed" status) of Cartoon Network since Adventure Time premiered in 2010 (and especially for Cartoon Network since 2013 onward, with the "death of the Action cartoons"), leads to people considering anything prior to 2010 as "Classic Era".

Ha, fair on moving Powerpuff's start to Wave 2. While there's only a two month difference between the two, I'd still lean towards Ed, Edd n' Eddy being the start for it being the first CN original to not be made as a part of the What-a-Cartoon series, nor does it have any ties to Hanna--Barbera. Powerpuff Girls, meanwhile, was the last series to be made by HB before being absorbed into Cartoon Network Studios.

But I will say this- someone asked on Twitter recently asked their followers when they think Nickelodeon officially became Nickelodeon, and after sharing my answer (I said 1984, btw), I did say 1998 would be when Cartoon Network found itself. Between Toonami premiering the previous year and the debut of the Powerhouse era, that's when it really felt like more than just a rerun channel with some new shows- it became something special. That definitely culminated with the premiere of The Powerpuff Girls that November, if you asked me.

And you're right on the second point. Many do have their preferences (I was still around the right age for the channel when the City era started, and I did like the ads and some of the shows, but I connected to Powerhouse much more, myself), but there was a consistency to the channel's lack of consistency for the 2000's, while everything from last decade to today feels like one giant glob.

I'm sure there are definitely different sections we can fit into this second phase, but I don't feel as confident making them.

 

[Red Arrow]

Stuart Snyder purposely crafted an almost perfect transition in 2010 (which was sad for fans of Chowder, Flapjack and The Secret Saturdays).

Honestly, I can see Tom Ascheim doing the same thing in 2022 or 2023. He launched Noggin, he launched Freeform. This guy likes to shake things up. No way is he not going to shake up a network that so desperately needs it!

 

[cartoo5007]

I consider them classic, since they were running before the logo changed.

 

[Stumpos]

I consider them classic, since they were running before the logo changed.

Would that make Adventure Time, Generator Rex, and Ben 10 Ultimate Alien classic too since all three technically premiered before the big logo change and rebrand too?

 

[Stumpos]

I never really saw them as part of the classics. For Flapjack especially, it kinda leans closer to the Adventure Time/Regular Show era given it did share similar staff with those (more than the older shows), plus it did have at least one full season premiere after the big Check It rebrand.

For me, this is how I'd divide the era based purely on the shows:

• Hanna Barbara era (1996-98): The first batch greenlit from the What a Cartoon project and all produced by Hanna Barbara. Worth noting how in addition to Cow and Chicken and I Am Weasel ending by 2000, Dexter's Lab and Johnny Bravo had both been cancelled initially and put on production hiatuses in 1998 too until they were revived later on.
• Cartoon Cartoons era (1999-2003): Pretty obvious, with pretty much every Cartoon Network original in that timespan (except Samurai Jack but that still aired on CCF sometimes) being branded as Cartoon Cartoons. Hanna Barbara also stopped being the main supplier for producing, with this set being produced by either Cartoon Network Studios or other outside studios (Ed Edd n Eddy, Mike Lu & Og, Courage, and KND).
• CN City era (2004-06): First wave to be fully greenlit under Samples, the older Cartoon Cartoons were wrapping up with Ed Edd n Eddy, KND, and Billy & Mandy as the only overlapping shows between the two eras. Also most prominently aired and thrived on the CN City era with the Fridays block switching to live action hosts.
• Nood era (2007-09): Pretty much every show in the previous eras wrapped up around this time frame. The originals in this era were the last greenlit under Samples and the first to premiere under Snyder. Also around the time the live action shows and Canadian imports began increasing.
• Check It 1.0 era (2010-12): Nood era stuff is phased out around this time (except Johnny Test and Total Drama), though Flapjack is potentially an overlapping show between the two eras due to season 3 technically 100% premiering during this era and sharing staff with the shows of this era. Had the first wave of shows greenlit under Snyder. Also had a lot of short lived cartoons that were either one-season wonders (Robotomy and Sym Bionic Titan) or bad cartoons that were kicked to the curb early (Problem Solverz and Secret Mountain Fort Awesome), like they were trying to throw everything at the wall to see what worked and what didn't.
• Check It 3.0 era (2013-15): Most of the shows from the last era were gone aside from Adventure Time, Regular Show, Gumball, and the Ben 10 franchise. New wave of shows from the recent Cartoon Network Shorts Department were greenlit.
• Dimensional era (2016-22): The wave of shows greenlit under Miller that didn't get much exposure on the channel due to Teen Titans Go favoritism. Pretty much every show before this era, except Gumball, was also getting less airtime and lost favor on the channel. Also the point where it becomes common for shows to release episodes on the Cartoon Network website and app early.
• Ghost town era (2022-present): Originals stop being greenlit for Cartoon Network and get shunted to Adult Swim or Max instead. Craig of the Creek and We Baby Bears are the only overlapping shows from last time, plus Prince Ivandoe (but that was greenlit under a different head).

 

[Checkerboard]

modern classics? sure, definitely good and old enough for that
overall classics? not yet, those i consider shows not newer than 2004