The Stuart Snyder era of CN is underrated

[TheMisterManGuy]

All that

Snyder seemed to impose a 6-11 only mandate for Saturdays too when Yu Yu Hakusho, Gundam Seed, IGPX and all the edgy anime got purged. TOM 4 and the extra kiddy shows like shameless Yu-Gi-oh knockoff Duel Masters seemed to be what Samples wanted on Toonami (also the Hot Wheels cartoons, mediocre Transformers anime, and a bunch of other teen repellant shows). I think he wanted to shoo off the teens for that 6-11 ad revenue. Samples started Toonami's downward trend. Snyder euthanized the block Samples already ruined for teens.

All that was happening before Snyder came into the picture. Toonami was a dying corpse by the time he took over, and most of that was Samples, or in some cases Kellner/Turner.

Obviously there were a lot of dumb programming choices for Toonami during this era (DICE and Pokemon? Really?) But some of it made a some sense. For He Man and Transformers Armada, CN was trying to capitalize on Nostalgia. Rope in College kids who grew up with these properties in the 80s while also introducing them to 6-11 year olds. In which case, putting them on Toonami, which had a huge following with both college kids and 6-11 year olds was a decent idea that simply didn't take off the way CN wanted. Blunders like that, probably led to the decision to segregate the network demographics in 2003 and 2004.

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

He-Man and Transformers were victims of the confusing SVES / Toonami rivalry. Frequently the premieres bounced back and forth between Friday Toonami (a sort of prototype for the spring 2004 Saturday Toonami, movies and premieres of GT, He-Man, and TF) and SVES.

While Armada survived for months at a time in plenty of different timeslots including Toonami Super Saturdays, Toonami weekdays, Toonami Fridays, and SVES, Energon was another matter. It had many different time slots and chances to succeed, and continually failed to hold any of them for more than an instant.

This TF show was a catastrophe in almost every way. The animation was rushed and unfinished. An important episode never was dubbed, not for content reasons, but because it was so badly animated they couldn’t air it. The CGI robots looked terrible. Megatron randomly has a different voice in one episode. There is a random gag filler episode with robot cat girls. The dub writers made frequent errors, because they had no idea what was going on, and neither did the viewers. Several episode titles are misspelled.

The show started off on SVES, but it must have been bombing there, as they stopped airing premieres there after 7 episodes. At one point it was announced it would move to Toonami, but they only ended up airing a marathon of it on a Friday one week before weekday Toonami ended. The first announced schedule for Saturday Toonami had it on the launch lineup, but this was when 7-2 was the planned Toonami hours. Most of the shows from the first announced lineup, like .hack//sign, Cyborg 009, Knights of the Zodiac, and Transformers Energon never made it. The only overlap is Gundam Seed (which was planned to air earlier in the night, before they realized the severe content issues) and Duel Masters. Teen Titans returns eventually, and not at the planned 1 am slot. DBZ returns but not for a year and a half, when uncut episodes briefly aired.

Toonami Saturday Schedule

New Toonami Schedule Premieres on April 17th // On Saturday April 17th, the new Saturday Toonami block will premiere. Running from 7pm to 2am the 7 hour block...

www.animenewsnetwork.com

After it is cut from the Saturday Toonami launch lineup in favor of Jackie Chan Adventures reruns from Kids WB, Energon made the move to the 6 am hour on weekdays. Most episodes premiere in the early morning hours, but they gave it a few last chances where it also failed.

They aired episode 14-23 on Miguzi… for two weeks. Commercials leading up to this invited people to check out the preceding 13 episodes on the Miguzi website. Few people can make it through 13 episodes of Energon on TV, let alone on dial up internet.

Another unique part of their Energon airings is they decided to burn off a large number of episodes in marathons. As well as the 4 which had already premiered in a Toonami marathon, 14 more episodes aired for the first time on marathons on the Saturday Block Party and Thanksgiving.

There is an interview with Sean Akins in 2004 saying it would return to Toonami but that never happened. He bemoaned that none of the other robot shows in the TOM3 era besides SD Gundam had performed as well in 6-11, including Cyborg 009, Astro Boy, Transformers Energon and Gundam Seed.

TICA | Inside The Creators' Minds | Sean Akins' Toon Zone Interview

The internet's oldest continuously-updated Toonami news and information webpage. Homebase of the Toonami Inner Circle Alliance.

www.thexbridge.com

 

[tykroma94]

Snyder did put Cartoon Network as the number one destination for comedy cartoons in the 2010s, but how he handled anime and action is another story. Considering that Shippuden and Dragonball Z Kai were just around the corner, Toonami could have had a Renaissance on Cartoon Network. Nicktoons took advantage and early 2010s Nicktoons was pretty much the DBZ Kai reruns network, if my memory was correct. We never would have had the Disney XD Shippuden butcher job if Cartoon Network kept it. Granted, Kai seemed to only briefly revive non toyetic anime on kids' cable, and the minute Kai ended, the era of non toyetic anime on kids' TV truly ended. Toonami seemed destined to have died and been reborn as an edgy Adult Swim block, but Cartoon Network Toonami probably would have had a few more good years left with Shippuden and Kai. The butterfly affect of how Cartoon Network surviving and airing Shippuden and Kai is an interesting hypothetical of how it would have changed the history of anime in America.

Yea this era of non toyetic anime on kids' TV was very interesting indeed as somebody in the 6-11 demographic at that point in time(I was 7 years old btw). First off you had DBZ Kai on Nicktoons and 4Kids, Shippuden on Disney XD and freaking Deltora Quest on The Hub of all places. It’s weird how CN wanted be like Nick and Disney but then Nick and Disney started taking CN's two biggest anime. Once Kai finished airing on Vortexx(anyone remember that?), that definitely marked the end of non toyetic anime on kids' TV and that was practically a decade ago at this point. It sucks cause I wish that era would’ve lasted a little longer cause it would’ve been interesting if it did. Now imagine if Boruto or DBS or even Black Clover were to air on kids' cable. Very interesting hypothetical.

But honestly though, CN Toonami was in bad shape so only way for it to stick around was to die, especially since every anime except Naruto didn’t do so hot ever since Toonami moved to Saturday nights.


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[mqg96]

I always say that based on the popular narrative. Stuart Snyder can be underrated while Jim Samples can be overrated. However, at the end of the day I believe both presidents were even and very influential for the network in completely different ways. Both of them had many highs and lows. Jim Samples brought in the iconic City Era and brought adult swim to life, but also started separating demographics and made CN more kid friendly instead of all ages like it was originally intended to.

Stuart Snyder had CN Real but also started making CN appeal to all ages again... it's why when I was teen in high school and college, my friends and I were able to equally enjoy CN and adult swim shows at the same time. I was the perfect age for shows like Adventure Time, Regular Show, Young Justice, Sym-Bionic Titan, MAD, Looney Tunes Show, Steven Universe, etc. and even Rick & Morty, Robot Chicken, Boondocks, Family Guy, King of the Hill, Black Dynamite, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, and the Toonami 2012-present programming, etc. That was an exciting time that now I appreciate more as years go on.

It's been brought up multiple times that the CN Real phase hurt Stuart Snyder the most which only happened for one year, but I believe what hurt Jim Samples the most besides the decline of Toonami on Saturdays which has already been brought up... the vast majority of the originals that debuted in the City/Yes era were the weakest by far... and my goodness it was weak. The CN originals that debuted before and after it were drastically superior and appealed to wider audiences.

CN became something special in the 1999-2004 range. It just had everything you could want in a network. Now I watched Nick, Toon Disney, etc. but CN was my favorite place, but then something changed in 2005-2006ish and it just grew bland.


By 2010 he had actually found some good shows and the network hit it's stride. It was something that even as a 18 year old and into college that I could turn on and watch. THe branding was cohesive. It was something new and I give him credit for what he did to make it into a success.

But it in no way matches the magic of what Cartoon Network was in 2003. That peak was something special and it's a shame what happened. The remnants of what that network was lives on at Adult Swim in Atlanta, which was where Turner was founded. They make money and that's why they are allowed to live.

1998-2004 were goated for both Cartoon Network and Toon Disney, although because of my age I only remember the 2nd half of that period but glad I experienced it when I did. It's ironic how Toon Disney's launch in 1998 happen to be the same year as CN's Powerhouse era, while the ending of the Powerhouse era in 2004 happens to be the same year Jetix debuted on Toon Disney. CN and Toon Disney also had logo changes the exact same year in 2004 as well. Was this scripted? Did the universe make this happen or did God snap his fingers like Thanos? IDK... the timing of all of this was just crazy.

Without the live action Snyder could've been probably the best presdient CN has had.

and "without the cancellation of action shows" too. I know there may have been financial reasons related to toy sales or whatever but another big red flag for Snyder was the mistreatment of the newest action programming. I wish there had been a better solution for it, and to be fair, when later presidents were around, the vast majority of action shows have gotten moved to adult swim to avoid getting screwed by CN, and now I just read PicardMan's message up there lol but totally on point.

But I believe fresh new original programming matters the most, then western action is next in line, then anime is 3rd.... reruns of old shows would be last. Stuart Snyder's original programming being very strong was more important than action programming being cancelled in spite the fact we still can't discredit that.

 

[TheMisterManGuy]

One thing I do like about the Snyder era of Cartoon Network was that they did try to develop more shows from studios that weren't Cartoon Network Studios or Warner Bros. Animation. Stuff like Secret Saturdays (PoarchLight), Star Wars: The Clone Wars (LucasFilm), Mr. Men (Renegade), Marvel Superhero Squad (Film Roman/Marvel), All of the CN Real shows, and others. Regardless of quality, it was a level of production diversity not seen at the network since the Betty Cohen days, and a stark contrast to how Jim Samples or Christina Miller ran things where nearly every original was done by CNS or WBA.

 

[Stumpos]

It's been brought up multiple times that the CN Real phase hurt Stuart Snyder the most which only happened for one year, but I believe what hurt Jim Samples the most besides the decline of Toonami on Saturdays which has already been brought up... the vast majority of the originals that debuted in the City/Yes era were the weakest by far... and my goodness it was weak. The CN originals that debuted before and after it were drastically superior and appealed to wider audiences.

I wonder how all of the shows greenlit when Jim Samples was running the channel hold up then?

Here's the shows greenlit under Samples (but not necessarily aired):

• Whatever Happened to Robot Jones
• Codename Kids Next Door
• Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy
• Evil Con Carne
• Star Wars Clone Wars
• Megas XLR
• Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends
• Hi Hi Puffy Ami Yumi
• Life and Times of Juniper Lee
• Camp Lazlo
• My Gym Partner's a Monkey
• Ben 10
• Squirrel Boy
• Class of 3000
• Chowder (began production in 2006, not aired until after Samples left)
• Ben 10 Alien Force (greenlit in Samples' final few weeks, premiered after he left)
• Flapjack (greenlit in Samples' final few weeks, premiered after he left)
• Secret Saturdays (greenlit in Samples' final few weeks, premiered after he left)

Among that batch, Codename Kids Next Door, Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, and the Ben 10 franchise were super successful and even Camp Lazlo and Chowder seemed to be decently successful, with Flapjack also planting the seeds for the Snyder greenlit shows with the talent such as Pendleton Ward and JG Quintel.

 

[Ace]

The biggest case in favor of Stu Synder is by just looking at what they have they're still relying on in some capacity. They must have struck gold if they're still playing Regular Show and Gumball years after cancellation and want to revive both and of course they want to turn Adventure Time into one of their big darlings the way Nickelodeon and Paramount is treating Spongebob and Avatar.

I think the Stu Synder era is probably second only to the Betty Cohen era with the original cartoon cartoons.

Without those shows they greenlit under Synder's watch I don't know where they'd be and I'm not entirely convinced another CN president wouldn't embrace live-action. They were already dipping their toes in it with Out of Jimmy's Head.

 

[Red Arrow]

Here's the shows greenlit under Samples (but not necessarily aired):

• Whatever Happened to Robot Jones
• Codename Kids Next Door
• Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy
• Evil Con Carne
• Star Wars: Clone Wars

As far as I know, these were given green light by Betty Cohen.

Billy & Mandy and Evil Con Carne already existed as "Grim and Evil", which premiered in August 2001, the month that Betty Cohen resigned. As far as I know, Robot Jones and KND were given green light in 2000 and early 2001.

I am not sure about Star Wars: Clone Wars. Didn't Jim Samples try to "phase out" Genndy Tartakovsky for whatever reason? This is also why Samurai Jack didn't get a fifth season.

I think the first series Samples gave green light was Megas XLR.

Similary, the first shows from Christina Miller were the Ben 10 and PPG reboots. We Bare Bears was given green light by Stuart Snyder.

 

[TheMisterManGuy]

• Codename Kids Next Door
• Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy
• Evil Con Carne

Worth noting that these three shows were holdovers from the Betty Cohen days. Billy and Mandy was part of the Big Pick 2000 event and was that years winner. KND's pilot had already aired before Samples took over and was also the winner of that year's Big Pick (meaning, it would've been greenlit regardless.)

 

[Stumpos]

Worth noting that these three shows were holdovers from the Betty Cohen days. Billy and Mandy was part of the Big Pick 2000 event and was that years winner. KND's pilot had already aired before Samples took over and was also the winner of that year's Big Pick (meaning, it would've been greenlit regardless.)

As far as I know, these were given green light by Betty Cohen.

Billy & Mandy and Evil Con Carne already existed as "Grim and Evil", which premiered in August 2001, the month that Betty Cohen resigned. As far as I know, Robot Jones and KND were given green light in 2000 and early 2001.

I am not sure about Star Wars: Clone Wars. Didn't Jim Samples try to "phase out" Genndy Tartakovsky for whatever reason? This is also why Samurai Jack didn't get a fifth season.

I think the first series Samples gave green light was Megas XLR.

Similary, the first shows from Christina Miller were the Ben 10 and PPG reboots. We Bare Bears was given green light by Stuart Snyder.

I thought the decision for Billy & Mandy and Evil Con Carne to be separate shows happened in 2003, two years after Samples came in.

And the KND pilot winning the Big Pick did happen in July AFTER Betty Cohen left in June. So KND wasn't a Cohen-era greenlit show.

I thought Robot Jones lost the Big Pick in 2000. This article states Robot Jones began production in July 2001 (a month after Cohen left). Why they still gave Robot Jones a full series despite it losing the Big Pick and with how poorly it was treated (not to mention short lived) is never known.

 

[TheMisterManGuy]

And the KND pilot winning the Big Pick did happen in July AFTER Betty Cohen left in June. So KND wasn't a Cohen-era greenlit show.

It was still in development under Cohen, and the Big Pick was already going on by the time Samples took over. So whether Cohen was there or not, if KND still won, it still would've been greenlit.

New network presidents don't just come in and make obvious changes instantly. It takes a good year or two for them to put their stamp on a channel. This is why I consider 2003 to be Samples first real year at CN. That's when we started seeing things like Duck Dodgers, Teen Titans, Grim and Evil being split up, TOM 3 era Toonami, Adult Swim going six nights a week, CCF turning into Fridays, etc.

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

I think the first series Samples gave green light was Megas XLR.

I found this quote from the creator of Megas about why it was cancelled:

In a similar vein, did the lack of Megas XLR toys or merchandise play a role in the show’s cancellation?
Not at all – we were cut because we got caught in a regime change (happens all the time in the industry) and the focus shifted from boy’s action/comedy to live-action and girls. This immediately made us an outlier and we got cut soon after.

10 Years After Megas XLR: An Interview With George Krstic

From May 2004 to January 2005, 26 glorious episodes of Megas XLR hit the airwaves. The show was about two modern-day slackers (Coop and Jamie) who inherit a giant robot from the future named Megas …

untiedmagazine.wordpress.com

Possibly the pilot Lowbrow began development under Cohen. When he refers to the increased focus on girls, to me that seems like a reference to Samples. He also began airing lots of live action movies around the time Megas XLR was cancelled. Possibly the abbreviated Miguzi run of Megas XLR was a consequence of low ratings with girls, as that block in its early days seemed to target girls more than Toonami did. “Chicks dig giant robots” is a nice slogan, but in reality robot shows are more popular with boys. The deadpan looks of Nami and Robin in One Piece when robots appear aren’t wrong:

 

[Stumpos]

So if we're categorizing shows based on which person greenlit them, it'd be:

Betty Cohen (1992-2001)

• What a Cartoon
• Dexter's Lab
• Johnny Bravo
• Cow and Chicken
• The Powerpuff Girls 1998
• Ed Edd n Eddy
• Mike Lu and Og
• Courage the Cowardly Dog
• Sheep in the Big City
• Time Squad (2000)
• Grim and Evil (June 2000)
• Justice League (February 2001)
• Samurai Jack (February 2001)

In between Cohen and Samples:

• Whatever Happened to Robot Jones (July 2001)
• Codename Kids Next Door (July 2001), sure the pilot was made under Cohen but if it lost Big Pick, it wouldn't matter

Jim Samples (2001-07)

• Baby Looney Tunes (January 2002)
• Teen Titans (September 2002)
• Duck Dodgers (2002)
• Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy
• Evil Con Carne
• Star Wars Clone Wars
• Megas XLR (2002)
• Justice League Unlimited (February 2004)
• Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends (December 2003)
• Hi Hi Puffy Ami Yumi (February 2004)
• Kyrpto the Superdog (July 2003)
• Life and Times of Juniper Lee (February 2004)
• Camp Lazlo (July 2004)
• Sunday Pants (2004)
• My Gym Partner's a Monkey (February 2005)
• Ben 10 (June 2005)
• Squirrel Boy (December 2005)
• Class of 3000 (February 2005)
• Chowder (July 2006)
• Transformers Animated (February 2007)
• Ben 10 Alien Force (February 2007)
• Flapjack (February 2007)
• Secret Saturdays (February 2007)

Stuart Snyder (2007-14)

• Batman the Brave and the Bold (April 2008)
• Adventure Time (August 2008)
• Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated (March 2009)
• Generator Rex (March 2009)
• Ben 10 Ultimate Alien (March 2009)
• Regular Show (August 2009)
• MAD (April 2010)
• Sym Bionic Titan (March 2009)
• Robotomy (August 2009)
• Young Justice (April 2010)
• The Looney Tunes Show (May 2009)
• The Amazing World of Gumball (September 2009)
• Secret Mountain Fort Awesome (April 2010)
• ThunderCats 2011 (2010)
• Green Lantern the Animated Series (March 2011)
• The Problem Solverz (December 2010)
• Ben 10 Omniverse (September 2010)
• Teen Titans Go (March 2012)
• Beware the Batman (July 2011)
• Uncle Grandpa (September 2012)
• Steven Universe (September 2012)
• The Tom and Jerry Show 2014 (January 2013)
• Clarence (January 2013)
• Mixels (2013)
• We Bare Bears (February 2014)
• Be Cool Scooby Doo (March 2014)
• Wabbit/New Looney Tunes (March 2014)

Between Snyder and Miller:

• The Powerpuff Girls 2016 (June 2014)

Christina Miller (2014-19)

• Bunnicula (October 2015)
• Mighty Magiswords (June 2016)
• Justice League Action (June 2015)
• Ben 10 2017 (June 2015)
• OK KO (March 2017)
• Unikitty (May 2017)
• Apple & Onion (March 2017)
• Craig of the Creek (March 2017)
• Summer Camp Island (March 2017)
• Victor and Valentino (March 2018)
• Mao Mao (March 2019)
• DC Superhero Girls 2019 (May 2017)
• Infinity Train (March 2018)
• Steven Universe Future (2018)
• ThunderCats Roar (May 2018)
• Elliott from Earth (July 2018)
• We Baby Bears (May 2019)

Between Miller and Aschiem:

• The Heroic Quest of Prince Ivandoe (June 2020)

Tom Aschiem (2020-22)

• Tiny Toons Looniversity (October 2020)
• Bugs Bunny Builders (February 2021)
• Batwheels (October 2020)
• Jessica's Big Little World (February 2021)

Pretty much nothing has been greenlit for Cartoon Network after 2021, but here's stuff greenlit for Cartoon Network that moved to Adult Swim:

• Unicorn Warriors Eternal (October 2020, moved to Adult Swim in 2023)
• My Adventures with Superman (May 2021, moved to Adult Swim in March 2023)

 

[Stumpos]

Also, anyone find it interesting how Teen Titans Go was handled under Snyder? Like in 2013-14, Teen Titans Go wasn't nearly as overplayed as it would be later on and there was still some solid variety in that time. I can't help but wonder if the switch from Snyder to Miller is why Teen Titans Go became overplayed later on and led to the network's second downfall.

Wonder how things would've gone if Snyder didn't leave in 2014. Would Teen Titans Go have still been overplayed or the schedule would've been better balanced?

 

[JMTV]

Also, anyone find it interesting how Teen Titans Go was handled under Snyder?

Yeah, I do know that.

Wonder how things would've gone if Snyder didn't leave in 2014. Would Teen Titans Go have still been overplayed or the schedule would've been better balanced?

Probably no where near as bad as 2016-2021, but.........we got Johnny Test, so...

 

[Ace]

Johnny Test wasn't even that overplayed when it was on. At least compared to what became of Teen Titans Go and it just ran out of steam later in it's run.

It thrived a lot more in that wierd middle period in the late 00s. When Regular Show and Gumball came along it stopped playing nearly as often.

 

[JMTV]

Johnny Test wasn't even that overplayed when it was on. At least compared to what became of Teen Titans Go and it just ran out of steam later in it's run.

It thrived a lot more in that wierd middle period in the late 00s. When Regular Show and Gumball came along it stopped playing nearly as often.

Yeah, true, but still.

 

[cartoonnetworkpoke]

Also, anyone find it interesting how Teen Titans Go was handled under Snyder? Like in 2013-14, Teen Titans Go wasn't nearly as overplayed as it would be later on and there was still some solid variety in that time. I can't help but wonder if the switch from Snyder to Miller is why Teen Titans Go became overplayed later on and led to the network's second downfall.

Wonder how things would've gone if Snyder didn't leave in 2014. Would Teen Titans Go have still been overplayed or the schedule would've been better balanced?

Yeah definitely!

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I must note that Out of Jimmy's Head (the first live action series) was greenlit under Jim Samples, so it's likely the push for live action still would've happened even if Samples stayed after 2007.

It's Unlikely, I think if Samples was still president, I think this would be the only Live Action show airing on the Channel. But due to the Great Recession and the Writer's Strike that was happening at the time, maybe.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Snyder made horrible decisions when he first arrived. But since 2010 things have been so good that he managed to turn 360. First he barely had originals but then the CN peak happened during the 2010 to 2013. We got shows that are one of the most popular shows of all time: Regular Show, Adventure Time, Gumball, The Looney Tunes Show etc. So yeah, meh begining, great end.

I think Snyder era was underrated just because of the live-action overshadowing. Without them people would have called him one of the best presidents ever. If he focused more on cartoons in 2007 and having very successful shows during the beginning, he wouldn't be getting backlash.

I agree, but I don't think it was his Intentions, I think the Writer's Strike and the Great Recession are the reasons why Live Action exists on the channel.