Fresh Question #2 - American Animation VS Japanese Animation

[Gyro]

I think I like Japanese animation better. Both American and Japanese have good styles, but so far I've liked almost all the anime I've seen so far. I can't say that about American animation. I like anime better because they follow a story arc and most of the episodes link together. To me, that makes the story more exciting.

 

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Mackenzie Rainelle


I'm a huge fan of Brian Jacques and his Redwall books, and I would actually love to see the series, but I can't get it in this area.

Where are you? It is has decent coverage

I have seen Watership Down though, and I just didn't like it as much as I thought I would.

Well I admit it had a rocky start but it slowly got better. Not as good as the movie but good in its own right.

 

[Dub]

**sigh**

I hate being in America and not getting some of these toons that I've heard so much about, but never seen... -__-

 

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

Originally posted by Psycho Fox
Where are you? It is has decent coverage

Knoxville, TN.

 

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Mackenzie Rainelle


Knoxville, TN.

Your local PBS station doesn't air it?

 

[Batmex]

You don't get Cartoon Network's Toonami block?

 

[PennyCat]

boys boys...

Originally posted by Jon "WB" Gray
Oh well then YOU try coming up with a better one then Mr. Jojo Sillyhead!


**wildly lobs Demonic Peanuts at you** ^_^

Can't we all get along?

 

[PennyCat]

my opinion

I could go either way. It depends on the program. I didn't like Key the Metal Idol, for instance, but I did like Urusei Yatsura. I love Powerpuff Girls, but I don't like Ed, Edd, and Eddy. (Well, they're okay sometimes. )

 

[Dee]

Western Cartoon Gal

Originally posted by Batmex
I'll go with Anime:

-It has a beginning and an end
-Cool songs and BGMs
-Cool artwork & action scenes
-Even good guys die in anime
-Great plots(Evangelion)
-MECHAS!!!
-fan service

I grew up watching both so this is my veredict.

Im a traditional Western Cartoon Gal!! Okay... Im gonna voice my opinion so dont flame me for it. Im including what examples I can bother to remember.


I can stand anime in tiny quantities before Im either bored out of my mind or confused to the point of being bored. Sheer example: Dragon Ball Z. Whenever I happened to turn my dorm TV on, this 'show' was all that was playing on CN and I hated it! It's so repetative and honestly I can't tell one 'episode' from the next. Cookie cutter fights and all that crud. Terribly loud, annoying and VERY boring! Pokemon? Dont get me started.

begennings and ends? Kinda makes you wonder what the heck is playing in the middle if thats all you focus on.

The artwork--- no offense ANYONE--- is again, cookie cutter. All anime manages to look the same to someone who isn't purely obsessed with knowing it all and knowing every kind of anime. If you have to be dead obsessed to see a difference, then it's to hard. And no one give me examples and try to 'talk' me out of it. I will not look at them.

I get so tired of it so quickly.

Cool songs???--- if you can understand that language, sheesh. I dont want to have to take a foreign language class to understand whats going on. YES--- ive listened to some anime songs and it's a headache if you marginally focus on 'listening' to it. No offense to anime and where it came from as well as the music... but I went to some art classes with an obsessee who had some 'manga' (im not totally sure) movie cd cranked all through a 6 hour drawing instructional class EVERY WEEK (ill get to a secondary point). All i heard was screaching through the headset and I was across the darn room. If you want a specific example-- it was some anime with what im guessing--- from the girl's snappy one-breath description-- which had "A cat thing that goes "meow" and turns into a spaceship"... atleast thats what I THOUGHT she said. I had no clue--- and Im sure i wouldnt get one if she repeated it 3 times over.

Also--- Anime style art and those who deovte themselves to ONLY that style, and expect to get anywhere in today's art schools have got to learn a thing or two. I had to sit through and listen to the girl complain and have attitude when the teacher kept insisting that she quit drawing anime. This is a figure drawing class and when you can whip up something that looks nothing like the model standing in the middle of the room without even trying--- well, it makes me worry. The girl was stubborn and refused to try and she suffered for it in her art education. Dont start in on how we should all be open minded. The class has a specific goal in instructing basic drawing skills of the human figure... not an unrealistic stylized person. Even Chuck Jones stressed how important and valueable it was to get a good grasp on drawing the human figure from sight.

Ill extend the saying to include "... and not from a simple stylized formula"

Anime is also quite violent. Not in a comical way.

Okay heres more for me to work with---

"-Most seiyuu can actually sing (Char: Except for Hikaru Midorikawa... Baja: Shut up, you!)
-Great soundtracks
--The mascots are adorable....most of the time. ::glomps Mokona and shoots at Pikachu::"

Im trying to figure out what you're talking about. I've noticed, anime fans use these little inside jokes. The problem was--- from what ive seen in my daily life, only the person using the jokes GOT them. The girl I mentioned would be talking normally and then go into some long dragging ramble about some inside anime stuff that only she could get--- and she wouldn't even stop to take a breath. By the time she was over--- she just angered the teachers even more because these would be tagged with sarcastic remarks more towards the line of "Anime is cool... I should be allowed to do it in class because i pay for this education".

And when not in a classroom context... she just caused a sickening silence at the dinner table which left her open for a traditional snide remark along the lines of an old MST3K joke or such from someone who didn't focus on anime in their life.

Am I even still on the topic of why I dont like Anime?

I perfer "the other cartoons" to anime because as someone said before--- they're genuninely made to be cartoons. Zippy, Zany, Silly, Funny, Crazy, Wild, Halarious, and just darn good. I grew up watching the Bugs Bunny shorts that were film reels during the war. I grew up with traditional animation. Until the agent of 10 I always wondered why not every car had a tire on the back (familiar with the contentials portrayed in the time-dated works).

And for those that say anime is better because it's bolder--- watch the simpsons. Always breaking boundaries. Futurama is the same, and if you look at shows like Daria, the critic, and such--- you will see we're not a pathetic bunch of pansies. Bless Southpark--- even though it's not the traditional cell animation. It's so darn bold! Remember the episode where they said the S word like 160 times? They proved a point. The more they said it... the more desensatized to it we got.... and they were brave enough to prove it.

The simpsons are tough enough to make fun of anything including themselves. They even take cracks at anime.

Anyone remember the action seizure robots on the hotel TV when the Simpsons go to Japan? hehe... I know I laughed good and hard.

My personal favorites are The Simpsons, Futurama, Inspector Gadget, Marvin the Martian, Wile E. Coyote, and Men In Black. You all know about those shows. Wile E. Coyote always struggled and never ever DID get the roadrunner. Its so simple but it works. It even inspired some Coyote-styled mayhem in Jones-styled animation sequences on the show Farscape. God Bless Chuck Jones.

Men In Black is constantly morphing. It has a life of it's own. MIB started out as a show that was hailed as a pathetic idea by a writer from TV Guide. They said it ought to go back to the drawing boards. it didn't. MIB started and ran for 4 seasons, more than most spin-offs ever could hope for. Im a big MIB fan who never had WB and MIB the animated series. It was so darn good, i didnt NEED IT, to love it. MIB maintained high ratings throughout it's run and even recently won a daytime emmy for sound editing. You can't say Our shows arent quality. We're constantly expanding and exploring ideas in televison that teaches, compels and enlightens kids as well as entertains them. Stop me if I sound like a broadcasting advertiser... hehe. Kids love cartoons and our cartoons are kid and adult friendly and captivate all ages. Sorry about sounding like Im a broadcast advertiser.

As for MIB... expect it to be back on tv.

Im a western cartoon chick and I always will be. Anime can never rob my heart of it's true love, no matter how many people say it's the hip cool thing. I don't care. Gimme some rollerskates and an Acme Rocket over a pokeball ANYDAY. I dont care.

We're loony, we're toony, and we're the Western Cartoon Nuts.

-Delia97

 

[Zero Angel]

WOW...

you definatly seem like someone who knows there stuff. i cant blame you for what you said. obviously you havent had the exposure nor the desire to seek out exposure so i cant blame you either. moreover i thought you produced some really interesting views on why you dont paticularly like anime without being TOO closed minded. i think the little speech on how all anime styles are alike is complete BS but still that is your opinion on it not mine. and the idea that anime has no differation in art style is also BS but again your opinion...and as an artist i will respect it.

but even in that stance you cant say that anime hasnt been a few steps ahead of american cartoons, specifically those made for tv. sure MIB is yet another of a plethera of shows based off of a comic/movie but still it is successful for a variety of reasons very similar to why TMNT was popular. of coarse the tactics in these shows in the serialized episodes and reicurring characters that have a certain amount of growth to them. all of which has been frequent in anime story lines for the past 40 years now. only in the past decade has the idea of character growth and development become a major staple for animation here.

the big thing that gets me though is you dont see a clear cut difference between anime and cartoons...the statement :

Anime is also quite violent. Not in a comical way.

marks me as being correct. anime isnt just filled with cartoons, yes it does have its share of titles marked as for kids, im not denying that, but you do have your Berserks and NGE's and SE Lain that are transending of the stereotype cartoon on the basis of content, ideals, or just overall direction.

again im not saying your wrong...just that you have a viewpoint that is somewhat closed off. again nothign wrong with that...just you are a little off...

 

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

Re: Western Cartoon Gal

Originally posted by Delia97
Im trying to figure out what you're talking about. I've noticed, anime fans use these little inside jokes. The problem was--- from what ive seen in my daily life, only the person using the jokes GOT them. The girl I mentioned would be talking normally and then go into some long dragging ramble about some inside anime stuff that only she could get--- and she wouldn't even stop to take a breath. By the time she was over--- she just angered the teachers even more because these would be tagged with sarcastic remarks more towards the line of "Anime is cool... I should be allowed to do it in class because i pay for this education".

They aren't even inside jokes if you'd bother to watch the bloody shows.
Seiyuu- term for japanese voice actors. Besides their work in anime, most of them have had moderate to phenomenal success as singers.
Soundtracks - Many animes have absolutely gorgeous soundtracks done by professional composers. An example is Yoko Kanno, who many anime fans who are also musicians practically swear oaths by. She's composed everything from huge movie-style orchestrations to jazz to rock to techno and combinations of the styles, and it's all fabulous.
Mascots - There's almost always some cute fluffy little animal in animes that were based on mangas done by women. In Inuyasha, there's Shippou, who looks like a little kid with paws and a huge puff of a tail. In Magic Knight Rayearth, there's Mokona, who looks like a cross between a rabbit and a marshmallow. In Card Captor Sakura, there's Kero-chan and Suppi-chan, who look like a teddy bear with feathered wings and a kitten with butterfly wings.

And also, I dunno about the idiot in your class, but most people who are SERIOUS about art and draw anime do the anime on their free time. I plan on going to SCAD. I can draw realism, I can do other cartooning styles, I've done life drawing, a little bit of graphic design, and I can do photography and darkroom work. For me, sketching anime is a hobby, nothing more. Why would I want to become a serious manga artist? It's one of the highest stress jobs in Japan, with very low pay, with one of the highest suicide rates of all professions. I have enough sanity problems as it is.

 

[Christopher N. Denner]

I'm gonna say both. While a lot of Anime LOOKS great, American animation has 2 things going for it... diversity and actual movement.

 

[Dee]

Re: Re: Western Cartoon Gal

Originally posted by Mackenzie Rainelle


They aren't even inside jokes if you'd bother to watch the bloody shows.

Unlike most places now, we'd have to go out of our way--- big time--- to 'get' the animes. It's not like you can just pop in to any ol store and get some anime.


I don't 'bother' to watch the bloody shows because I'd have to do a lot of work to get them here. You can say "just flip on the TV" but here, standard fare of televison does not even include CN. I only got WB mid last september. All we had was transferred Pokemon over to our UPN which ate out the time slots for the shows we could have watched. To get it here, you have to pay ungodly amounts for tapes or DVDs through catalogues and special order places. I have not the time nor money to invest in something just to 'try it out'.

I guess you can blame my 'terrible exposure' and opinion of anime to the fact that it was the big time fans that showed me what this is. I had to sit through some anime movies--- undubbed, and unsubbed... and I pondered what could be gotten out of any of it. The girl who had me watch this is a different one from the art class girl I had spoken of. She still sat, glued to the screen while I was busy trying to figure out what the heck was going on. I understood nothing of it, and got harsh looks from the girl when I didn't totally drool over it.

The first art class girl I was speaking of was very alienated when placed in a setting outside of having fellow anime fans.

Right now, I feel alienated because, like I said, I'd probabaly start an uproar over anime and western animations. This is what I know though and this is how I do stand on the subject.

I guess it was the bad experiences (plural) that did 'this' to me. Do I even have to speak of it as if it's some awful disease that I can't overly stand anime?

To bring it down to scale... overall... there is nothing around here that really floods us with the culture of anime and the music and how sucessful people are with it. This is Maine. The exposure to anime I recieved was from a few sources. Most of them more recently were in college from the people I had contact with who were bigger nuts for anime than I am a nut for MIB. It's odd... they expected me to embrace it, and with the adding of Cartoon Network to the service for the TV recieved in college, I got a huge heaping dose of repeated Dragonball Z. That, and and the horrors I've had to deal with from my pokemon-obsessed cousin have really done it for me and I guess It's accountable for my extreme dislike of anime. Don't hate me because this is what I've been shown. If people who had anime were to see western cartoons, theyd probabaly hate them for parallel reasons. reverse roles and it's all just the same thing.

I know anime is a hobby for many, But when you go to an art college here, in Maine, expecting to make a living from drawing anime... you're bound to be met with resistance when you refuse to even do the basic required work. This is what the art education is about, and when one won't learn, it's no wonder things aren't cheery happy.

To specify the art education, this college I attend is the last place to go to do anything besides 'staring at moldy old art', and the traditional works. I have to start here to obtain my basic education because I have always wanted to get into working on something in the field of the visual entertainment business. It's not fun... but it's what I'll have to do before I can study in Computer Animation, traditional animations, as well as other aspects of making films and effects. Theres so much I want to do, but before I can find what works for me and move forward with that... I have to start somewhere. I'm taking my "medicine" and drawing nudes for 6 hours starting on an early monday morning. EVERY MONDAY MORNING. I did that the second half of the year... it stunk, but I did it. The art class anime fan wouldn't even open up and drop her style like I dropped mine. If she wishes to go on to greater things, she's gotta start somewhere, and when she refuses to start, it's going to ultimately slow her down.

 

[Dee]

Re: WOW...

Originally posted by Zero Angel
you definatly seem like someone who knows there stuff. i cant blame you for what you said. obviously you havent had the exposure nor the desire to seek out exposure so i cant blame you either. moreover i thought you produced some really interesting views on why you dont paticularly like anime without being TOO closed minded. i think the little speech on how all anime styles are alike is complete BS but still that is your opinion on it not mine. and the idea that anime has no differation in art style is also BS but again your opinion...and as an artist i will respect it.

but even in that stance you cant say that anime hasnt been a few steps ahead of american cartoons, specifically those made for tv. sure MIB is yet another of a plethera of shows based off of a comic/movie but still it is successful for a variety of reasons very similar to why TMNT was popular. of coarse the tactics in these shows in the serialized episodes and reicurring characters that have a certain amount of growth to them. all of which has been frequent in anime story lines for the past 40 years now. only in the past decade has the idea of character growth and development become a major staple for animation here.

the big thing that gets me though is you dont see a clear cut difference between anime and cartoons...the statement :

Anime is also quite violent. Not in a comical way.

marks me as being correct. anime isnt just filled with cartoons, yes it does have its share of titles marked as for kids, im not denying that, but you do have your Berserks and NGE's and SE Lain that are transending of the stereotype cartoon on the basis of content, ideals, or just overall direction.

again im not saying your wrong...just that you have a viewpoint that is somewhat closed off. again nothign wrong with that...just you are a little off...

Thank you for some compassion and not flame from your opening:

you definatly seem like someone who knows there stuff. i cant blame you for what you said. obviously you havent had the exposure nor the desire to seek out exposure so i cant blame you either.

Something that does not help is an opening that's just a ball of bad attitude and anger. I thank you.

i think the little speech on how all anime styles are alike is complete BS but still that is your opinion on it not mine. and the idea that anime has no differation in art style is also BS but again your opinion

I didn't say that (or at least thats not what I was trying to say). I was saying that I SERIOUSLY cannot see much of a difference between the styles because I've not devoted myself and my time in observing the finer points of every kind, or multiple kinds of anime.

I guess if someone were to say "those western cartoons are the same", I'd argue... "you can tell Chuck Jones' work from earlier Warner animated films." or even down on a more finite level, "You can really see the difference from MIB season 1 and MIB Season 3"


I don't know if the differences of Agent Kay's looks alone are obvious or not.

In a non-cartoon example... it's like taking someone to a large art museum and they see just plain art, instead of the differences between artists' styles and periods of art. I'd provide examples of particular similar works, but my Renaissance-Modern print book was stolen from me (go figure-- who would want to steal my crappyt beat up book good for that particular class session ONLY?)

I wouldn't pick out every little difference, But I can tell soem things apart through the phases in art, including poses and point perspective usage.

sure MIB is yet another of a plethera of shows based off of a comic/movie but still it is successful for a variety of reasons very similar to why TMNT was popular.

Please refresh me as to what the acronym (spelled right??) is. Im making a dead guess--- teenage mutant ninja turtles?? lol, Im not familiar with the TMNT naming of something. it took me forever to figure out MST3K but once I was told thats just the calling of it, It was okay.

As for MIB being popular... I can see some reasons why being in typical genres of action, aliens, saving the world, fight villains and that... but I don't know why I like it. Honest. I have no clue what hit me the night of July 5th, 1997.

I don't like it for being a mishmash of action and aliens and fighting and stuff... It's something else and really, I've yet to figure out what it is that would cause me to devote 5 years so far, and a large web page to it. People assume it's all sorts of stuff but really... I-- dont--- know. People ask me and I'm at a loss of words and I shrug my shoulders.

As for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles... I liked it because it's something we actually had on tv. It lasted a good while so we could have time to enjoy it unlike some stuff that goes on once, and is pulled--- never to be seen again. It was funny, but I enjoyed the movie more because of the special effects. I loved it because of the brilliant work of the Chiodo Brothers in the line of the turtle's makeup and face animatronics. I'm a nut for special effects.

again im not saying your wrong...just that you have a viewpoint that is somewhat closed off. again nothign wrong with that...just you are a little off...

Thanks for at least taking some time to be nice about it. It makes discussing things more fun.

-Delia97

 

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

Re: Re: Re: Western Cartoon Gal

Originally posted by Delia97
To bring it down to scale... overall... there is nothing around here that really floods us with the culture of anime and the music and how sucessful people are with it. This is Maine. The exposure to anime I recieved was from a few sources.

::cough:: You're telling this to someone who comes from an area of Tennessee that's not even on a map because it's too small to even be given "town" status. We're nothing more than a rural postal district squished between three counties. The only exposure I've had to anime was through the internet and through my friend Char until I got Cartoon Network this past year.

 

[JETBLACK87]

*rubs Mackenzie on the back* are you okay? do you have a cold?

 

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

::sweatdrop:: Nope, just bad allergies. ^^;;;

 

[Zero Angel]

No prob...

i can respect a person that at least knows what she is talking about. you didnt go out of your way to insult anime or say things about it that were beyond your understanding of it. from viewing your past expiriences with it it is understandable. i dont know if i would have been completly turned off by anime had i had to view raw unsubbed material but it wouldnt help.

there are just a couple things i would like to say though before i go, i know what your saying as for the differences in art styles. i think that the big thing that is the drawing point for you to see the differences between artists...the thing is, when you go to a museum you have a whole lotta centuries and artistic styles to pile through. the art style of anime has only just come into being within the past 15 years. the only style of differences you can really see in anime is with different creators and artists...you dont have the time nor the sheer amount of time to really get a good feel about the differences like you do with the type of art you have seen in a museum, ie. modern, post modern, surrealism, romantism, etc. you just have the style of animated art. the only real big difference is looking at cel, analog, or cg.

and as for what i was saying about the big draw that shows likeTMNT (yes this is the one about the Turtles that know kung fu) and MIB bring is the serialized element where you have a continueing growth of characters through a very episodic storytelling, much like the anime Cowboy Bebop is.

as far as this goes, dont sweat it...there are a lot of anime fans that would bash on you for simply saying that you dont like anime. they would then give you the reasons why you dont like it then try to give you reasons why you should give it a chance...im not going to do that. like i said...if you have the will to go out and expirience it...good for you. if you dont...good for you. either way, so long as you dont say anything of idiocy, which you havent, then all is fine by me.

oh and just one more thing. that girl that is in your class should learn to back off and go through all the steps that would take her to becoming an artist so that she may do whatever she wants to afterward. i have several friends that are aspiring artists that use anime as there huge influence...yet they still do all the assignments as issued to them, with complaint? yes. but they still go ahead and learn the lesson and take it into what they are doing with their own art style.

ja ne (later)

 

[Meow]

Hey, I've got a question. Aren't most animes based off a manga?

I don't read many comics (don't have the money to be buying them and NONE of my friends are into that kind of thing so I can't rely on them for any kind of info into the "comic world") but I've heard there's a lot of great ones out there. I wonder...if america made some cartoons based on comics could they be good enough to rival the complex nature of some really great anime shows?

I know there have been some shows based on comics in America, but it seems to be a more common practice in Japan.

Oh yea, I prefer American Animation. Why? Well, I haven't seen much anime for one thing, so my opinion is somewhat biased. I watch some anime that's on TV but I don't go to video stores and rent it or buy the subbed dvds or anything like that. Anime in general, just doesn't really interest me that much. I'd much rather spend my money on other things... I grew up around American Animation...never had any friends that were into anime..or family members, (my older brother sort of..but he always watched it at his friend's house and didn't seem interested in getting me to watch any) so there was nobody to get me hooked on it. I like some, but overall I prefer American Animation much more. I'm not trying to offend anybody, but sometimes the traditional anime "gags" get on my nerves. Like the sweatdrop and the...facefault (is that what it's called? Something like that anyway) that dumb sparkle in someone's eyes indicating that they are up to something...the nosebleed..which I really don't get...(well I know what it MEANS but I don't get why they choose a nosebleed to show that they think a girl is hot...if you get a nosebleed because you think someone's hot I think there is something wrong with you)..and then there's that head enlargement thing. Uhg...some animes overuse those so dang much it really detracts from the mood. Maybe those "gags" aren't used as much in more serious anime. I really don't know, but they seem to be used a lot in some anime I've seen. Those tend to get kind of annoying...

Overall I'd say there's good Anime and good American Animation. It just depends. I prefer American, but that's just me.

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

Originally posted by Meow
Hey, I've got a question. Aren't most animes based off a manga?

Typically, they are. The only shows I can think of where the manga came AFTER the series are Pokemon, Evangelion, Tenchi Muyo!, and Cowboy Bebop. Here's a basic breakdown of some animes and the original comic artists they were created by:

Ranma 1/2
Urusei Yatsura
Maison Ikkou
Inuyasha - All based on mangas by Rumiko Takahashi

Dragonball
Dragonball Z - Mangas by Akira Toriyama, he had nothing to do with Dragonball GT

Sailormoon (all series) - Mangas by Naoko Takeuchi, she did character designs for the movies, nothing more

X1999
RG Veda
Card Captor Sakura
Miyuki-chan In Wonderland
Tokyo Babylon
Clover
Wish
Magic Knight Rayearth - Mangas by CLAMP

Slayers
Slayers NEXT
Lost Universe - Mangas by Hajime Kanzaka and Shouko Matsu****a (I think....)

Those are all the ones I can think of off the top of my head right now...