"Hawkeye (Disney+ Limited Series)" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Frontier]

I really am pretty bummed that Clint and Swordsman don't have any history in this. Like, in a show called "Hawkeye," you would expect a character with an established history with Clint Barton to see that be reflected, but I guess this is Kate's show so she gets to have the relationship to Jacques .

Clint totally not backing up Kate in that talk with her mom .

You know, usually when someone asks politely to "drop the case," it's usually because they're secretly involved...and then Eleanor immediately makes a call (Kingpin?). Wouldn't it be kind of hilarious if Swordsman is secretly this really sweet guy who just loves swords and Eleanor is the utter bad guy ?

So what is Velma's deal? She can look up stuff for her husband and speak languages with him to hide info from their kids, but what's her backstory? I guess it stands to reason that Clint's wife would be special in her own way .

They showed Caudle on the "previously on" but the most that plot point got followed up on is Kate saying she needs to get the police off her back. I kept expecting him to show up

The Boomerang Arrow joke! They just flipped who says it from the comics. Now I want to see the Boomerang Arrow .

Clint's finally training Kate! He only taught her, like, one thing, still .

Kate finally works out that Clint is Ronin and it goes to show the dichotomy on how Clint is perceived versus who he feels he is. Clint still thinks of himself as an assassin that, at a base level, is only good at killing people while Kate only sees Hawkeye as the Superhero who saved her .

No surprise that Kate gets along better with the LARPERs faster than Clint did, they're basically her kind of people. Also I guess they're the ones who give them their Superhero costumes, although I think Clint's the only one who is supposed to get a new uniform .

"Can I have my gun back?" I mean, Clint threw it in the distance but it's still retrievable, so...

Did Maya get the info on Clint's family through Kingpin's resources ?

Collapsible bows! Gotta love 'em .

That was some fun brawling between Clint, Kate, and Yelena/Echo. Especially because they have no idea why Yelena was there and she was fighting Maya too .

Well, someone didn't necessarily hire Yelena to take Clint out, she's more there on personal business to find out how Natasha died...but Clint doesn't know that .

Clint seeing Kate dangling like Natasha did sets off his PTSD even more and they break up their relationship. Although he left her the arrows, so...

 

[Yojimbo]

You know, usually when someone asks politely to "drop the case," it's usually because they're secretly involved...and then Eleanor immediately makes a call (Kingpin?). Wouldn't it be kind of hilarious if Swordsman is secretly this really sweet guy who just loves swords and Eleanor is the utter bad guy?

Feels like it. They're not considering the possibility that Eleanor is a part of all this. She might be the one using Jack in order to use his company Sloane as a front for the Tracksuit Mafia. Yeah, I also immediately thought she called Kingpin.

So what is Velma's deal? She can look up stuff for her husband and speak languages with him to hide info from their kids, but what's her backstory? I guess it stands to reason that Clint's wife would be special in her own way

This episode definitely made me wonder if Laura Barton was an agent before she met Clint, not necessarily S.H.I.E.L.D. but maybe CIA, FBI, etc.

Kate finally works out that Clint is Ronin and it goes to show the dichotomy on how Clint is perceived versus who he feels he is. Clint still thinks of himself as an assassin that, at a base level, is only good at killing people while

It's odd he hasn't mentioned S.H.I.E.L.D. by name but still referenced when he first met Natasha and didn't complete the mission Fury gave him, instead flipping her to their side.

Did Maya get the info on Clint's family through Kingpin's resources ?

If Fury kept intel on Clint's family off S.H.I.E.L.D. files, that's quite odd Maya knows them all by name and age. How Maya contacts could find that out is the question. But they were seen together in NYC, buying things - tickets, hotel, etc. And that leaves a trail.

 

[Frontier]

Feels like it. They're not considering the possibility that Eleanor is a part of all this. She might be the one using Jack in order to use his company Sloane as a front for the Tracksuit Mafia. Yeah, I also immediately thought she called Kingpin.

I mean, it makes sense Kate doesn't suspect her mom, it's her mom. She probably never thought for a second why nobody responded to her as a child when she cried for her parents or why her mother suddenly appeared a few minutes later .

This episode definitely made me wonder if Laura Barton was an agent before she met Clint, not necessarily S.H.I.E.L.D. but maybe CIA, FBI, etc.

I guess it makes sense that Clint would end up marrying someone he met from work .

It's odd he hasn't mentioned S.H.I.E.L.D. by name but still referenced when he first met Natasha and didn't complete the mission Fury gave him, instead flipping her to their side.

This makes me wonder how much the public knew about The Avengers or their connection to SHIELD. I mean, it doesn't seem like Kate had any idea that Hawkeye was also a SHIELD special ops guy who assassinated people, and in Widow's movie it came up that she was, in-universe, an icon for little girls even though she also killed a lot of people .

If Fury kept intel on Clint's family off S.H.I.E.L.D. files, that's quite odd Maya knows them all by name and age. How Maya contacts could find that out is the question. But they were seen together in NYC, buying things - tickets, hotel, etc. And that leaves a trail.

And, y'know, the Kingpin has resources .

 

[reflection01]

All that despite Natasha’s massive SHIELD info dump in Winter Soldier.


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[Yojimbo]

Episode 5 "Ronin"

A fallout nearly derails their partnership, but Kate makes a discovery that changes everything.

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

"Ronin" - I have some small complaints about this one. There were a couple of scenes that felt like they expanded a bit too long (Kate trying to call Clint though at least the "message box full" joke was a funny zinger) and also though the scene of Clint visiting the Avengers site to "speak" to Natasha and calling his wife were good you kind of got a feeling they should of been leading up to a bigger reveal then Clint simply giving Maya one last warning. Like yeah maybe he could have killed her but it does feel like for that great build off and an actually really solid fight there should have been more to it then him just revealing he was warning to say "threaten me again and I will kill you." Also as good as the ending was and how it will set up the finale, and yes super glad that it is Vincent D'Onofrio back as Kingpin I kind of wish he had did or said something. Like maybe we catch bits of his and Eleanor's chat and end with him smiling to himself and THEN you play the "Mr. Grinch" song but just showing the photo feels a bit weak. Like the shadow over the city in the credits is really cool and I guess this means we will actually get something with him actually you know ACTING next week but feels like there should of been more here. Then again this is what happens when you try and be clever with a reveal... with an audience that can think and anticipate like 10 steps ahead of you. But again small complaints as honestly I really dug the rest of this.

For starters I am so glad that Yelena is showing up as an actual CHARACTER here and we get to see so much of her we did in Black Widow movie but you know what happened after that. I love actually seeing her actually going around freeing more widows and then finding Ana who actually LIKED being a contract killer and actually got paid for it and then finding out that Yelena got dusted. Honestly I am still glad that there are quite a lot of characters we don't know how they spent the 5 years and am glad we're getting that introduced throughout these series and also really glad we got that full scene of Yelena and Kate talking. If you saw the Black Widow movie you'd know Yelena is different then Natasha as she is more generally chatty when off the clock and can be kind of annoying but in an honestly endearing way and I think that really bounces off well with a character like Kate. I really enjoyed her starting to cook pasta and complaining that Kate only has one fork and then putting so much sauce over hers and talking about what to see in the city. Like I appreciate these character building moments that aren't just about exposition or advancing the plot but actually show "hey these people have personalities and interests other then what they're doing" while still getting to that. Since Yelena though wanting to probably hang out some did come to find out if Kate knew where Clint was (since yeah she'd be easier to hack and find out then Clint) and pointing out his trail of blood and Kate being able to defend that and again form a weird relationship with her. I don't know if we're going to see them be the new "Widow and Hawkeye" duo like Clint and Natasha were some suspected but it's clear the two have a relationship and yeah it's confirmed Clint didn't know who she was when fighting him but does know Natasha and Yelena are "related" so I am hoping in the next episode they do talk. Since I think it Yelena was told what happened in Endgame she'd understand and probably make a joke on "of course Natasha kicked your ass so she could make the sacrifice play. I have been there too" or something like that. And props to the twist of Yelena being the one to find out who Eleanor was working with as I thought she was just going to take Eleanor to try and get to Kate but no just trying to find out exactly who hired her and I do have to say that perfectly fits Kingpin's MO; these elaborate hits hired off through different people you would really have to dig at to get any connection to him.

And honestly though Yelena is easily the highlight of this episode most of the rest of this was good too. I do appreciate the direction of Clint taking off his hearing device when talking to Natasha as well as his call with Laura with Laura admitting he "doesn't need her permission" and she trusts his judgement. Again ending probably could of had more an impact for all the build up but how it was built up certainly worked. And I do honestly like that scene with Kate and Eleanor. Yeah pretty clear Eleanor is the one who framed Jack who yeah is obviously totally innocent and she was just covering her own rear but it's clear she does care for kate and the two reminiscing over that first bow was nice. I also liked Clint having to stay with Grillz and Clint just wanting him to look after the dog. And then Kate complimenting Grillz later after the fight. And hey speaking of much better fight then last week. I think because of seeing how cool Clint was as Ronin taking out all of those guys and then having that one v one in the spotlight and actually managing to get the upper hand and take out Maya. And honestly I am glad we are going with the idea that he was the one to take out her father since yeah we do know Clint killed a bunch of people as Ronin so trying to deny it would hit close to home with some wouldn't make sense. But do like that again it also relating to connections with Kingpin with someone obviously tipping off Clint Ronin and yeah guess that's obviously Kazi. I think he does care for Maya as their scenes he does seem like he generally wants her to be okay but yeah something sketchy about him but do like how they are playing with the grays. And yeah I am glad that the "break up" of Kate and Clint didn't need some big knockdown apology between one another to bring it back up but rather Kate helping him and the two now being more full on as a team especially now that we know Eleanor relates to Kingpin. So guess more of Kingpin's forces will try attacking Kate and Clint in the end and with some backup from Yelena (maybe even Echo as well) take out those forces since I don't see a direct connection with Fisk and Clint here but guess we'll see.

So yeah minor flaws aside great episode. Honestly I think this show did start off as perhaps the weakest of the Disney+ MCU shows but it's been the most consistently good since episode 3. So can't wait to see how they close this all out next week. Hoping for a bigger episode though since we have all these threads going and should have something big to finally untie all these knots as it were for the conlcusion.

 

[Rick Jones]

It was great to finally see the Big Man. In the white suit, too. *chef's kiss*

Whatever happens at the end of the next episode, I know things are going to be rough for Katie. Starting her journey as a true hero is her happy ending, and we know that path almost always starts with severe tragedy.

I just want to see Clint make it out. Poor guy has been trying to retire for 8 years or something and he just keeps getting pulled back in for the roughest ride. The way he put down the Tracksuits and Echo was something. I do wonder if Echo will still go after after she learns of the betrayal that went on.

I love MCU Yelena and it was awesome to see her blip POV, much like it was with Monica months back. Just when she got her sister back, to lose her like this was heartbreaking. I hope she gets a talk with Clint or something, or uses the opportunity to talk.

I feel certain that Laura was involved with SHIELD or something in a past life. I don't think she's secretly Bobbi Morse but I wonder if Mockingbird might have been a code name in the vein of Black Widow that could have gone from person to person.



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[Frontier]

We interrupt your daily scheduled Hawkeye show to see Yelena Belova on her quest to free Black Widows, only to stumble into a Widow that...was actually doing pretty well for herself even with the brainwashing (?) and enjoyed the money that came from assassination. And then we get to see the Blip firsthand for someone who experienced it to where they vanish for a second and then reappear instantly after getting brought back with their entire environment changing around them. Good news is that Widow made a proper life for herself and even managed to start a family (and thanks to adoption she can actually have a kid), but poor Yelena just wanted to live out her Sex and the City fantasy with her sister .

So that was Kate's archery outfit? I'd been wondering where she got that from the whole time...

I realize now with the Hawkeye promotional poster and magazine cover in Kate's room how much media stuff The Avengers must have done in their heyday and how Clint must have hated it .

I really hope the LARPER's came up with a better costume for Clint than the comic suit with the purple chest logo, even if it is comic-accurate, but I know that's what we're going to get .

I never thought I'd feel bad about Swordsman getting arrested, but now it really seems like he's a genuine nice guy getting framed by his evil fiance .

Yelena having it out for Clint made me wonder what the "official" story of Endgame was, like it's not like they told the public that Black Widow and Hawkeye battled for who would sacrifice themselves for the Soul Stone, so did they just say she died ensuring the heroes could beat Thanos and not go into detail? Does Yelena hold a grudge against Clint because he's still around even though she somehow died? But Natasha at least told him about her .

Yelena really feels like a young adult version of circa-2000's Black Widow with the Russian accent, full name basis, and the way she talks around people. It's an interesting contrast with ScarJo's Natasha .

Is Yelena age-appropriate enough to be part of the Young Avengers? Like Kate's in her 20's, I presume Yelena is in her 20's, and they're really getting along here well and Yelena's nominally an Avengers legacy. Although as far as blonde gal pals go I want to see Kate and Cassie strike up their friendship...

So did Eleanor get through to Yelena through Valentina? Like, what does Valentina actually do? Is she like an agent or does she actually work for the government? Because what Yelena's doing feels like a contract assassination .

Yeah, I can believe Kate would fill up Clint's inbox .

Clint going to the Battle of New York monument to talk to Natasha one last time was pretty poignant, all the moreso because seeing all the OG!Avengers' names on the plaque puts it into perspective how Clint's one of the only few of them left...and he wasn't really that close to the remaining two either .

It was nice to finally get to see the Ronin costume in action again and beating up bad guys. Although I kept being reminded of Batman the whole time .

"I may have killed your father, but we're the same! Also someone lead me to your father, so I'm only partially responsible, so let's be friends M'kay?" .

Seems like Kazi may have sold out Echo's dad, although then she ended up in charge...is he acquiescing to her instead of putting himself in charge because of his feelings for her? I don't see this ending well for him .

Well, it was pretty much an open secret at this point, but welcome back to the MCU Vincent D'Onofrio as Wilson Fisk AKA the Kingpin of Crime, who turns out to have been the real Big Bad of the series the whole time. What's the game plan here? Is Fisk back on top of the New York crime world and wants to get rid of the Ronin because he was a scourge to his operations back in the day? What are he and Eleanor concocting? Will we see him interact with Echo since he was her "uncle?" Will Fisk fight Spider-Man ?

 

[Yojimbo]

Glad Yelena got a lot of focus this week and perfectly translated from Black Widow to here. Pugh was firing on all cylinders. Sad to see Yelena got blipped. The you keep saying "Kate Bishop" or the "One fork?" stuff was hilarious. But then I'm here to kill Clint, don't get in my way, I'll take the hole in the wall out. Badass. Gonna be pretty hard to convince Yelena that Natasha decided to die and beat Clint to it to secure the Soul Stone... wonder how they're gonna resolve that.

KINGPIN. Vincent D'Onofrio is back, another worst kept secret from the Internet. lol. So Kingpin had Eleanor reach out to Contessa's organization to contract Yelena to kill Clint? Intriguing. I suppose Bishop Security would have government contacts and somehow would lead to Contessa. And that means the Black Widow end tag between Contessa and Yelena in Ohio would take place during this series timeline wise.

Had a feeling Clint would spare Maya. Hmm, Kingpin through Kazi tipped off Ronin to kill Maya's dad? More intriguing. Now the Echo series happening makes sense with this context.

I guess we'll find out next week what role the Stark watch plays in Kingpin's plans.

 

[Frontier]

Glad Yelena got a lot of focus this week and perfectly translated from Black Widow to here. Pugh was firing on all cylinders. Sad to see Yelena got blipped. The you keep saying "Kate Bishop" or the "One fork?" stuff was hilarious. But then I'm here to kill Clint, don't get in my way, I'll take the hole in the wall out. Badass. Gonna be pretty hard to convince Yelena that Natasha decided to die and beat Clint to it to secure the Soul Stone... wonder how they're gonna resolve that.

I guess if she's willing to listen to Kate about who she's working for, she might give them a few minutes to explain what actually happened to Natasha...although I'm not really sure that matters to her right now .

KINGPIN. Vincent D'Onofrio is back, another worst kept secret from the Internet. lol. So Kingpin had Eleanor reach out to Contessa's organization to contract Yelena to kill Clint? Intriguing. I suppose Bishop Security would have government contacts and somehow would lead to Contessa. And that means the Black Widow end tag between Contessa and Yelena in Ohio would take place during this series timeline wise.

I wonder how long Eleanor has been working with Kingpin. I mean, DD happened post-BoNY and we know who started to come into power after that...

Had a feeling Clint would spare Maya. Hmm, Kingpin through Kazi tipped off Ronin to kill Maya's dad? More intriguing. Now the Echo series happening makes sense with this context.

Wonder why Fisk wanted Maya's dad dead .

I guess we'll find out next week what role the Stark watch plays in Kingpin's plans.

If it's even really Tony's watch .

 

[Last Spider]

"I may have killed your father, but we're the same! Also someone lead me to your father, so I'm only partially responsible, so let's be friends M'kay?" .

That's not anywhere close to what he was saying at all.

 

[Frontier]

That's not anywhere close to what he was saying at all.

Felt like it at least so Maya shifts her focus away from trying to kill him even though he still killed her father.

 

[Last Spider]

Felt like it at least so Maya shifts her focus away from trying to kill him even though he still killed her father.

No not at all, heck Clint makes it clear she shouldn't focus on him because if she keeps coming after him he'll kill her, he's not saying they should be friends or even allies, just she should keep away from him and his family.
And telling Echo that he was tipped off is simply just letting her know that her father was set up to be killed, by the same person she's working under.

 

[Frontier]

No not at all, heck Clint makes it clear she shouldn't focus on him because if she keeps coming after him he'll kill her, he's not saying they should be friends or even allies, just she should keep away from him and his family.
And telling Echo that he was tipped off is simply just letting her know that her father was set up to be killed, by the same person she's working under.

it seemed like he was trying to connect with her and talk her out of coming after him. Obviously there was some intimidation involved but it also seemed like he was trying to alleviate the burden of guilt so she would go after someone else, even though he's still the one who killed her father.

 

[Last Spider]

it seemed like he was trying to connect with her and talk her out of coming after him. Obviously there was some intimidation involved but it also seemed like he was trying to alleviate the burden of guilt so she would go after someone else, even though he's still the one who killed her father.

Again no, not what happened, telling her he was tipped off is simply letting her know she's being manipulated and used by the very person she works for, it doesn't change what he did at all.

 

[Frontier]

Again no, not what happened, telling her he was tipped off is simply letting her know she's being manipulated and used by the very person she works for, it doesn't change what he did at all.

I feel like it was serving that and trying to steer her away from coming after him, but I guess I just don't see them properly addressing what Clint did at the end of the day and trying to shift Maya's focus.

 

[Last Spider]

I feel like it was serving that and trying to steer her away from coming after him, but I guess I just don't see them properly addressing what Clint did at the end of the day and trying to shift Maya's focus.

Feels pretty addressed, his family died, he killed criminals out of grief, there's not much more to say.

 

[Action!]

I really like Hawkeye so far. Can't wait for the season finale. It's going to be a good one!

 

[Frontier]

Feels pretty addressed, his family died, he killed criminals out of grief, there's not much more to say.

I feel like there's more that can be said about a character playing judge, jury, and executioner out of grief and how that impacts others, but I don't think the show wants to dive too deeply into the ethics or what Clint did.

 

[Mostezli]

I feel like there's more that can be said about a character playing judge, jury, and executioner out of grief and how that impacts others, but I don't think the show wants to dive too deeply into the ethics of what Clint did.

He basically became an actual Avenger like his fellow peers before they made this team. I say actual because he wasn't authorized to kill like he was as an active SHIELD agent. Now that he's more or less retired & more importantly has his family back, I'm assuming he's back to not being as invested in ending worldwide crime and taken on a new lease on life in not sending bad guys to the morgue?