Iron Man "The Armor Wars, Parts 1 & 2" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Stu]

Discuss this classic two-part second season Iron Man episode!

Episode #21 - The Armor Wars, Part One
Original Airdate - 18th November 1995
After inadvertantly causing an explosion in Russia and injuring thousands, Iron Man learns that his designs have been stolen, and are being used to commit crimes throughout the world. The pressure finally gets to Stark, and he begins a made rampage, attacking anyone that's using his designs!

Episode #22 - The Armor Wars, Part Two
Original Airdate - 25th November 1995
Iron Man's wrath continues, as Justin Hammer prepares to finally put the final nail in Stark Enterprises Coffin.

Comments?

 

[Spider-Man]

I think this show would have been very popular on a regular network slot than in syndication and this episode shows how strong the cartoon was. I have some of the Iron Man episodes on tape and it is this two-parter that I usually go back and rewatch from time to time because of how strong it is.

And how could you not like the Hawkeye/Iron Man fight?

My only minor complaint is that we saw way to much of Justin Hammer from earlier episodes and seeing him here was a bit irritating. But they did make him useful as a villain against Iron Man with this story. I like how this story also touched upon some of Tony's worst nightmares like bad guys getting ahold of his armor and using it for evil instead of his good intentions. Solid stuff!

 

[Antiyonder]

I'm glad I have this one on tape.

My favorite scenes include Iron Man VS
1. Beetle
2. Stiltman
3. Stingray

It was because of this episode that I chose to add Iron Man #225-231 to my collection. And Marvel think that they need to change the comics to suit movie goers.

 

[Stu]

And here I was thinking people had forgotten about ol' Shellhead.

My only minor complaint is that we saw way to much of Justin Hammer from earlier episodes and seeing him here was a bit irritating. But they did make him useful as a villain against Iron Man with this story.

You mean his first season appearances? I remember that Hammer got a great revamp when season 2 came along, with a new, ruthless attitude and a great new voice in Efrem Zimbalist Jr. But yeah, the first season version was annoying as hell.

And the Stiltman cameo was one of the more amusing scenes in this series.

STILT MAN: "Hey, I'm walking here!"
IRON MAN: "Drill mode!"

 

[AdamYJ]

Ah, the old Iron Man cartoon from the '90s. I remember this show. This episode was from the second season, right? Season 2 was good in terms of story. However, season one was interesting for a different reason. I think season one of Iron Man is interesting in that it seems like one of the few times that you could see conventions from a lot of the action cartoons of the '80s overlapped onto established Marvel characters. Think about it, we had Mandarin acting all Skeletor-like, lording over his minion villians. MODOK was there playing the role of the double-crossing henchman. Then there's Force Works. In the comic books, Force Works was originally one of Marvel's answers to the call for edgier, more extreme hero teams (basically an Avengers based X-Force rip-off). In this show, Force Works seemed more like the type of posse of heroes you'd find helping the main character in a show like Masters of the Universe.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand. I think this storyline was one of the first where all the stuff from Season One started to fall away. Force Works was disbanded and only Rhodey and Julia stayed on, and primarily in their positions at Stark Enterprises at that. I also think this is where the old collection of villians started to appear less.

I kind of miss this show. I haven't seen it in a while. I wish they'd show it on Jetix or something.

 

[Stu]

Ah, the old Iron Man cartoon from the '90s. I remember this show. This episode was from the second season, right? Season 2 was good in terms of story. However, season one was interesting for a different reason. I think season one of Iron Man is interesting in that it seems like one of the few times that you could see conventions from a lot of the action cartoons of the '80s overlapped onto established Marvel characters. Think about it, we had Mandarin acting all Skeletor-like, lording over his minion villians. MODOK was there playing the role of the double-crossing henchman. Then there's Force Works. In the comic books, Force Works was originally one of Marvel's answers to the call for edgier, more extreme hero teams (basically an Avengers based X-Force rip-off). In this show, Force Works seemed more like the type of posse of heroes you'd find helping the main character in a show like Masters of the Universe.

I've often heard a similar story to what you wrote... I think the main problem with it, is that at the time it premiered, Batman, Spider-Man and X-Men were all in thier prime, and that's what the kids of the generation were watching. Serious, intelligent shows with great characters... Iron Man had none of that. It came along about 10 years too late. They realised this, and attempted to make Iron Man more like Batman, rather than Superfriends. And to anwser your question, yes, these are second season episodes. The show had 2 seasons of 13 episodes.

I kind of miss this show. I haven't seen it in a while. I wish they'd show it on Jetix or something.

It would be great to have Iron Man back on TV. I find it to be one of the most underrated shows I've ever seen. Shame it ended so soon...

 

[Christopher Glennon]

I'm definitely in the camp that says the "Armor Wars" two-parter was the best of Iron Man. Granted, I really loved season 2, and "Hands of the Mandarin" was awesome, but we get a lot of of "Armor Wars". Cameos from bad guys, Hawkeye, Tony Stark's dimensions. Think of what Iron Man could've been if it was given more seasons. Oh well, the best I can hope for it season box sets some day.

 

[Ultra8]

It was a good 2-parter, though I'd have liked it even more if the ending was more like the comic. Sure he gets an armor change in the finale, but the least they could have done was given him a slight alteration for his armor or used a different looking Hulk-buster.

 

[Spider-Man]

It was a good 2-parter, though I'd have liked it even more if the ending was more like the comic. Sure he gets an armor change in the finale, but the least they could have done was given him a slight alteration for his armor or used a different looking Hulk-buster.

How does the comic version end? I've never read the comic verrsion of this but I'd like to know what changes they've done.

 

[Zero-V]

I'll still defend the first season of Iron Man as much as I can, four or five episodes of it actually tried to be above the standard generic botch fest, and you could'nt deny it was better than the Fantastic Four's first season

One real let down was how stupid The Mandarin was in falling for a cheap deception in "The Wedding of Iron Man", he had essentially spent the entire episode DEDUCING WHO IRON MAN WAS, Freidman gave him an amazing, constructive, valued reason to think Star was Iron Man (the eyes), and then he's tricked ihto beleving he is'nt?

 

[Spider-Man]

IOne real let down was how stupid The Mandarin was in falling for a cheap deception in "The Wedding of Iron Man", he had essentially spent the entire episode DEDUCING WHO IRON MAN WAS, Freidman gave him an amazing, constructive, valued reason to think Star was Iron Man (the eyes), and then he's tricked ihto beleving he isn't?

I remember that! I was actually enjoying that episode up until that little twist at the end when The Manadarin throws all logic out the window. It just boggled the mind.

I'm curious about what changes were made between this version and the comic book version.

 

[Stu]

Given that the Armour Wars comic book was recently re-released in TPB, does anyone have any opinions on the changes made from the comic to the cartoon? Which do you prefer?

Comments?

 

[S.C.B]

Incidentally, Jetix is showing Iron Man, Fantastic Four, X-Men, Spider-Man, and even The Avengers after (I think) 9 in the UK. It's great to be able to catch up with these shows, especially the Marvel Action Hour ones.

Meanwhile, on topic, I really enjoyed this two parter. The Beatle puns were fun (why couldn't Beetle have been in Spider-Man?), and I loved Iron Man against the Controller.

"Oops. Wrong room. Brainwashing is in 4A."

It was really great to have a main character who was a bit dubious when it came to his methods. In the other Marvel shows, the only one who came close was Wolverine, but that was more of an 'instinct vs intellect' thing. Tony was well aware of what he was doing wrong, but he was doing it anyway. That's some gutsy (and very interesting) stuff there.

Also, Hulkbuster Armour is awesome.

 

[Tempest]

Given that the Armour Wars comic book was recently re-released in TPB, does anyone have any opinions on the changes made from the comic to the cartoon? Which do you prefer?

Comments?

I prefer the comic because Captain America/Steve Rogers(as the gov't exiled self entitled "The Captain" in the story) was an integral part of it. In fact Steve Rogers as "The Captain" was originally in Hawkeye's place in the comics patrolling The Vault (Marvel super prison). And the fight went MUCH longer ending with Cap getting suckered by Tony's red and silver centurion Iron Man armor because Cap helped a gassed up Vault guard that Iron Man suffocated and got pearl harbored by his best friend.

That said the "Armor Wars" storyline is STILL my favorite in the MAU history. Cap's deletion I believe was due to a rights issue.

 

[S.C.B]

That said the "Armor Wars" storyline is STILL my favorite in the MAU history. Cap's deletion I believe was due to a rights issue.

Also, in this continuity, Iron Man and Cap have never met (at least, not on screen). Cap being in the Vault scene instead of Hawkeye wouldn't have made much dramatic sense in terms of the episode.

 

[Tinytooncrazy]

By the way part two is on in the U,K tonight

I lvoed this series I liked all the camoes of The Siltman and the Beatle and Contorrloer by the way the beatle is more of a human torch villain then spiderman

I like grey ghost also

 

[Caswin]

By the way part two is on in the U,K tonight

...lucky.

 

[Tempest]

And here I was thinking people had forgotten about ol' Shellhead.



You mean his first season appearances? I remember that Hammer got a great revamp when season 2 came along, with a new, ruthless attitude and a great new voice in Efrem Zimbalist Jr. But yeah, the first season version was annoying as hell.

And the Stiltman cameo was one of the more amusing scenes in this series.

STILT MAN: "Hey, I'm walking here!"
IRON MAN: "Drill mode!"

Good reference but ALSO Stilt Man's overly phonetic pronunciation of iRON-Man when IM catches him breaking into a sky scraper and says "Stilt Man looks like you don't have a leg to stand on!"

Also, in this continuity, Iron Man and Cap have never met (at least, not on screen). Cap being in the Vault scene instead of Hawkeye wouldn't have made much dramatic sense in terms of the episode.

If Cap showed it would've been epic and the mere presence of Cap (OR Cap AND Hawkeye) EXUDES drama (I believe Cap has THE most screen presence in all of comics) and would've given the Marvel-heads chills. They had Force Works already and it easily could've been explained through exposition that Tony broke off The Avengers and Cap was hot on his tail.

 

[Antiyonder]

Force Works was previously on the show, Cap wasn't. And besides, no need to start a flame war just because S.C.B darede to disagree with you. You can still read the comic if the animated version offends you.

 

[Spider-Man]

I plan to comment on the comic book version of Armor Wars as soon as I can but I can't help but wonder what major differences were made translating this from comic to cartoon. I can barely remember this cartoon for myself and if anyone has an indepth list of changes I'm curious to see them.