John Kricfalusi's thoughts on Japanese Anime

[tb4000]

I honestly wish what he would do is just create animated theatrical shorts. Most of which would play before PG-13/R rated flicks. Since he doesn't want anything else to do with tv. That's where his inspiration stems anyways.

 

[Zorak Masaki]

The thing that gets me about adult party cartoon is that from what i heard, he basically took suggestions from fan letters, ie "make an ep thats all gross jokes!","make a sequel to firedogs" (and he kind of was able to do both with firedogs 2), "make an ep with naked girls!" and so on. That shows a lack of creativity, by letting the fans give ideas for shows (the exception of course, being a visit to anthony which was inspired by an actual fan letter). Think of your favorite cartoon show. Now imagine if they decided to take suggestions from fan letters. While they may have had some good ideas (like the aforementioned visit to anthony), we'd also get horrid eps that would be essentially fanservice. If you're a creator, use your own ideas, not ideas contributed by fanboys/girls.

 

[Antiyonder]

I've often compared John Kricfalusi to Greg Weisman years ago. Both had a show in the 90s for a kid/family centric company with did pretty well in the writing department, with both of them losing creative control and both shows eventually ending due to low ratings. Both Gargoyles and Ren & Stimpy got a second chance at life this decade. The differences:

1. Both of them have had more creative freedom with their products this time around. Greg however, doesn't use content unless it feels nature. John on the other hand is like "Phooey on the writing, let's up the content and stick it to Nick". The former maintains the creative quality, the latter disregards it and goes sloppy.

2. As mentioned, John for the most part doesn't really put up (The Ripping Friends being his biggest job aside from Adult Party). Greg on the other had did the first season of Max Steel. Wrote episodes of Kim Possible, Buzz Lightyear Of Star Command, The Batman, the second season of W.I.T.C.H. and of course is currently working on The Spectacular Spider-Man. Plus the Gargoyles comic, Bad Guys and is working on a Red Tornado miniseries for DC Comics. Sure Greg has made a few critical statements regarding the flaws of animation, but he is working around those flaws to the best of his ability.

 

[Gokou Ruri]

I've often compared John Kricfalusi to Greg Weisman years ago. Both had a show in the 90s for a kid/family centric company with did pretty well in the writing department, with both of them losing creative control and both shows eventually ending due to low ratings. Both Gargoyles and Ren & Stimpy got a second chance at life this decade. The differences:

I disagree. John K, to me, never had a good show. Ren & Stimpy's humor rotated around fart jokes, booger jokes, and other crude toilet humor which may be fine for kids, but most adults wouldn't care for it; I know my parents didn't. He has no right to complain about any other cartoon's writing, let alone be compared to a talented folk like Greg Weisman.

 

[Classic Speedy]

^ It also had the best art style to come out of television in 30 years. So give it -some- respect even if you don't like the low brow humor.

 

[HG Revolution]

I disagree. John K, to me, never had a good show. Ren & Stimpy's humor rotated around fart jokes, booger jokes, and other crude toilet humor which may be fine for kids, but most adults wouldn't care for it; I know my parents didn't. He has no right to complain about any other cartoon's writing, let alone be compared to a talented folk like Greg Weisman.

Ren and Stimpy also had some strong character driven humor, parodies, and general inspired wackiness, as well as some very good animation.

 

[Antiyonder]

I disagree. John K, to me, never had a good show. Ren & Stimpy's humor rotated around fart jokes, booger jokes, and other crude toilet humor which may be fine for kids, but most adults wouldn't care for it; I know my parents didn't. He has no right to complain about any other cartoon's writing, let alone be compared to a talented folk like Greg Weisman.

The Adult Party, moreso, but the early episodes did rely on some character moments and writing.

 

[Gokou Ruri]

^ It also had the best art style to come out of television in 30 years. So give it -some- respect even if you don't like the low brow humor.

Seriously? I thought the art was pretty ugly.

 

[Jave]

If anything, Ren & Stimpy deserves credit for having the best monologue ever in the history of animation.

"Oh, how long can trusty Cadet Stimpy hold out?!"

 

[Zorak Masaki]

I disagree. John K, to me, never had a good show. Ren & Stimpy's humor rotated around fart jokes, booger jokes, and other crude toilet humor which may be fine for kids, but most adults wouldn't care for it; I know my parents didn't. He has no right to complain about any other cartoon's writing, let alone be compared to a talented folk like Greg Weisman.

There were plenty of good eps from the first two seasons that didnt rely on any "toilet humor". Eps like space madness, big house blues (save for one scene of ren washing his mouth out in a toilet), stimpys big break/the big shot, rubber nipple salesman, stimpys invention, a visit to anthony, all great eps that had little to no crude humor.

 

[DrTooth]

"Put up or shut up" doesn't even apply...What about all of you? You never criticize something that you yourself have not produced? People are allowed to have opinions and post them on blogs, whether or not they actively engage in creating the type of work they're criticizing (which John K DOES.)

Now I'd love to have some more John K cartoons on TV ("put up"), but as he put it, he will pitch a show to a network, they'll laugh their heads off, then say "sorry, not interested." This includes G rated material.

That's why I say I'm a little hypocritic myself. Though in fairness, I can't even afford to get Flash or a Wacom Tablet or even a scanner.

I know the entertainment industry pretty much doesn't want him. And I know that really has to hurt on some level. But He really needs to get back up on the internet toons horse and ride that puppy for all its worth. If a network won't buy his stuff, avoid the networks all together. Or find some indie movie producers and make an animated film or something.

It's not so much I don't like his opinion as I miss him actually doing stuff. No doubt it sucks to be him, and he clearly has millions of ideas buzzin' round his head. The constant failures must have ruined him forever for trying a commercial endevor. But as I said, who says it has to be commercial?

 

[Darklordavaitor]

Seriously? I thought the art was pretty ugly.

The designs may be hard on the eyes, but the motions put into detail are amazing.

 

[Jordo]

Woh! I can't imagine how anybody can think Ren and Stimpy's art style is "ugly."

Ren and Stimpy singlehandedly revitalized TV animation in the 90s. It was (one of?) the first TV cartoon that both kids and adults watched, but not because it was TRYING to appeal to kids and adults (the way certain cartoons try too hard to now, by throwing in old references, etc.) It was like that because John K put everything of himself into it.

The character designs are completely 100% original. If you like to draw cartoons, draw Ren and Stimpy. You'll see how incredibly fun they are to draw, and how you can do ANYTHING with those character designs. I would draw Ren and Stimpy all day during school, and never get bored. That's how inherently great they were on a visual level.

The music, the timing, the voice acting, everything about it is like from another planet. Bursting with creativity. You won't see the same facial expression twice, and you'll never know what's coming next. Oh, and the cartoons actually DO cartoony things.


I can't see where "ugly" comes from? Honestly I can't even begin to fathom that. Stimpy is one of the cutest characters ever created. Even Ren is cute, even when he's mad or stressed out or going crazy, he still looks like a vulnerable little dog. That's part of the key to Ren -- you can never hate him too much or be scared of him, because he's so frail. John K talks about that in one of the commentaries. The humor in the show is character driven, atmosphere driven, story driven.


Whew, I'm a bit overwhelmed here with so much negativity towards Ren and Stimpy. I can't think of anything to dislike about it.


-Jordan

 

[Jordo]

Went ahead and fixed that for you. You're welcome.

That was kind of obnoxious.

The Simpsons is a whole different story, and it's not a "cartoonist driven" cartoon, it's writer driven. Matt Groening is a cartoonist, but the show is more driven by it's writing. Even Groening's "Life in Hell" is more driven by it's writing. Ren and Stimpy was the one of the only ACTUAL cartoons on TV -- Written in the storyboarding stage, very few scripts written, everyone working on it an actual cartoonist. NO hired writers. Only cartoonists.

The Simpsons was a prime time show not solely intended for little kids (though little kids watched it). Not on saturday morning on Nickelodeon.

My point, if you hadn't CROSSED IT OUT, is that Ren and Stimpy was a show FOR little kids that adults grabbed onto, because of the inherent weirdness, creativity and adult emotions in the show. This was not planned. It just happened. It's a different situation than the Simpsons...


-Jordan

 

[DrTooth]

Ren and Stimpy singlehandedly revitalized TV animation in the 90s. It was (one of?) the first TV cartoon that both kids and adults watched, but not because it was TRYING to appeal to kids and adults (the way certain cartoons try too hard to now, by throwing in old references, etc.) It was like that because John K put everything of himself into it.

The character designs are completely 100% original. If you like to draw cartoons, draw Ren and Stimpy. You'll see how incredibly fun they are to draw, and how you can do ANYTHING with those character designs. I would draw Ren and Stimpy all day during school, and never get bored. That's how inherently great they were on a visual level.

Classic Ren and Stimpy episodes are the bomb. I'll say that. That's why I'm a fan of this guy. I like how it wasn't cutesy booboo. It's not so much ugly as cartoony. I think R&S is one of the major cartoons that revitalized everything in the 90's. It really helped to start the movement out of more toy driven products of the 80's.

Problem is, it just hurts me to see this guy sit angrilly on his ideas (the ones he owns anyway) when he can go back and create another flash animated empire like he did with the Spumco site. As I said, unlike other media, he doesn;t have to deal with network execs and the like. Even if he were to post them on youtube or something. I just want to see him do something outside of the very same stuffed shirts that refuse to hire him.

Though I will say, he works better in animation for kids that has adult appeal than for straight up adults. The only problem I had with R&S adult Party was that it was funnier when the stuff was hinted at. When it was out in the open, it just loses the charm.

 

[Antiyonder]

Whew, I'm a bit overwhelmed here with so much negativity towards Ren and Stimpy. I can't think of anything to dislike about it.

Regular Ren & Stimpy was fine. Adult Party was not. It was pretty much an increase in the toilet humor, plus adult content, but without the good writing of John K's earlier episodes.

As I've stated in a prior post, Greg Weisman has more freedom for the Gargoyles comic than he did for the cartoon. Yet, he isn't pushing the boundaries for the sake of it. It still works for the adult audience without going up to an MA style of content. If John had done that with Adult Party, it would probably have been approved for more seasons or at least a few more episodes.

 

[Gokou Ruri]

My point, if you hadn't CROSSED IT OUT, is that Ren and Stimpy was a show FOR little kids that adults grabbed onto, because of the inherent weirdness, creativity and adult emotions in the show. This was not planned. It just happened. It's a different situation than the Simpsons...

Every adult I knew as a kid hated it because of the crude, immature humor. Most of them preferred Doug, form what I remember.

 

[DarthGonzo]

As I've stated in a prior post, Greg Weisman has more freedom for the Gargoyles comic than he did for the cartoon. Yet, he isn't pushing the boundaries for the sake of it. It still works for the adult audience without going up to an MA style of content. If John had done that with Adult Party, it would probably have been approved for more seasons or at least a few more episodes.

But he was still having trouble getting episodes done on time. Apparently, it was the Nick situation all over again. I think the main reason nobody hires him anymore is simply because he just doesn't work well with others.

"Deadlines!? I don't need no stinkin' deadlines. I'm John Kricfalusi!"

 

[Racattack!Force]

Yeah, wasn't one of the main reasons he was booted off his own show was that he couldn't stick to deadlines?

 

[Jordo]

ONE of the reasons he was fired from his own show was that he couldn't stick with deadlines. Or you could say that was the excuse Nickelodeon took, when really they disliked his sensibility and was worried his show was corrupting or scaring kids, they thought ren was "ugly", and basically disliked everything about the show. Ren and Stimpy made Nickelodeon very, very nervous.

He took long for episodes because it's an art to him. He wasn't into the whole factory made system that could just pump out cartoon after cartoon. He wanted them all to be great.

And this was no "Doug"....the characters looked different in every scene, the stories went all over the universe, anything can happen, and all on a very limited budget. Looking at "Son of Stimpy" or "Sven Hoek" and how beautiful those episodes look, it's incredible what they were able to accomplish on a TV cartoon...


I'm a bit confused by the comparison to Greg Weisman. I'm a huge Gargoyles fan, but we're talking completely different genres, completely different people, and completely different approaches. I don't see the point in comparing them. Greg has never had an interest in being extreme or pushing boundaries, his interest is in character studies and complex storytelling for all ages audiences, which he excels at masterfully. John K's main goal is revitalizing TV animation (not TV writing) and trying new things, and jarring his audience. You're comparing two people who do not have similar sensibilities or goals.

Also Spike TV had TOLD John K to take things to an extreme limit, so he did, but then got scared when they saw how psychologically affective his directing style is. That's what's amazing about John as a director -- he really makes you FEEL what's happening on screen, and it often leaves you feeling disturbed and uncomfortable. Spike TV chickened out.

If you compare any modern day flat looking cartoon to Ren and Stimpy, you can see how great a director John K is. When something happens in Ren and Stimpy you REALLY feel it, because it has weight. Sure the scene in "Onward and Upward" when Stimpy is blowing a big snot bubble is gross (that was the idea), but I'll be darned if I didn't feel it in my nose as I watched. I could practically smell it and touch it. If some other show with flat animation ("fairly oddparents? foster's?) tried it, it wouldn't be as effective.

I'm not trying to convince you people to like it, but I'm consistently blown away, from old ren and stimpy to new (and to certain episodes of Ripping Friends) by how physically real everything happening on screen seems, and how that often leads to feeling extremely grossed out ("onward"), or disturbed ("ren seeks help"), or sympathetic ("son of stimpy.")

Personally I loved Adult Party Cartoon. I have rarely reacted so strongly or laughed that hard as I have during "Ren Seeks Help" or "Firedogs 2." I have rarely been blown away as I was by the facial expressions found in "Onward and Upward", and "Altruists" is just a feat of modern hand drawn animation. The only one I wasn't crazy about was "Stimpy's Pregnant", it was just too mean, but I'll still admit the animation is absolutely incredible.

But hey, that's how I see them...I won't deny they are a bit crass, and make you uncomfortable, but that's whats so exciting about John K cartoons. They've ALWAYS made me feel a little uncomfortable, a little dirty, even when I was a little kid watching Ren and Stimpy. It's part of the strange appeal and John K's personality. I don't know how he does it but he manages to infuse so much uneasiness into his work, but I can't help but admire it. Any director, of movies, cartoons, anything, that can actually get so much of his personality on screen is something to be admired. At least it HAS a personality, unlike so much of TV these days.


-Jordan