The portrayal of black people in anime

[spyke]

With the exeption of a hand full of anime like haragedon,robotech,and 8th man after, most anime portray blacks in a negative light. In a lot ofanime, we are usualy drawn in the insulting racist characature (very black skin with bigpinklips),that was very comon in the first half of the 20th century in america. We are also often portrayed as criminals or boxers in a lot of anime,manga, and video games. I for one am tired of this crap. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge anime fan and I also understand that a lot of anime,manga,and video game creators may have limited knowledge and information about the history of african americans and our strugle for racial equality. I also realize, that they may not know that certain images are offensive to us, and that most of their knowledge about us come from movies. I just wish there were more possative portrayals of african americans (and africans in general) in anime. You don't know how PO'ed I get, when I see characters like comander black from dragonball or mr. popo (is he suposed to be a black man) from DBZ.

Am I being to sensitive? Are there a lot more possitive and non-stereotypical portrayals of blacks in anime,manga,and japanese video games then what I named above? I would appreciate all your coments, and please folks, lets keep this discussion civil.

 

[RZetlin]

Well...there's Nadia Secrets of the Blue Water.

There's the commander from Macross Plus.

Remember that Japan doesn't have a large black population like in America so it's not suprising that Black characters in anime doesn't have a huge role.

Keep in mind that American animation hasn't totally figure out how to represent Black people properly.

 

[Yuss]

I haven't been into DBZ for years, but I'm pretty sure Mr. Popo's not supposed to be a black man.

~B+:

 

[Sharklady]

This is only a guess, but, as most anime is made in Japan, the steriotyping may simply be due to lack of familiarity with the subject matter.
Things could improve, as more people of African descent get into the animation buisness.

 

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Actually, there aren't that many blacks in anime to begin with. And I'd say about it's about 50-50 in terms of negative to positive portrayals.

Positive ones?

Brain Powered (Nice guy)
Armored Trooper Votoms (Major cast member, funny and cool guy)
Space Runaway Ideon (Major cast member, good guy)
Cowboy Bebop (some good, some bad minor characters...so I'd say it's just being realistic)
Revolutionary Girl Utena (Many major black characters. Most of them, men AND women, are portrayed as very erotic and "attractive" in this anime. Also very complex characters.)
Now and Then, Here and There (Cute black kid, major character)


That's just off the top of my head.

Ironically, Robotech (Macross) was the first children's animated show aired in the U.S. that actually portrayed a black woman and white man romantically linked. (Star Trek did the interracial kissing first for live-action). It was pretty radical at the time (yes, the 80s!)--many U.S. stations skipped the Claudia/Roy scenes or episodes.

 

[Jeff Harris]

Originally posted by spyke
Am I being too sensitive? Are there a lot more positive and non-stereotypical portrayals of blacks in anime, manga, and japanese video games then what I named above? I would appreciate all your coments, and please folks, lets keep this discussion civil.

Nah, you're not being too sensitive. Basically, you're just trying to look for a better representation of people of color in animation form. It's not just a Japanese thing (though there really aren't many people of color in Japan), and just about every country give negative attributes to SOME characters of color (I . . . never . . . liked Waynehead). The only anime I know that has an accurate representation of Blacks is Cowboy Bebop, which has different shades of people of color as well as those that are good and evil, just like all people. Like so many people have said, there just aren't many Blacks in Japan, and as sad as it may seem, most of their images of Blacks come from Western culture like movies, music, and television shows.

*sigh*

 

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I think it ain't so bad in anime considering the portrayal of blacks in the U.S. usually falls under two categories:

1. Boring token black character with no personality. Squeaky clean and full of goodness so as to be as P.C. as possible.

2. Yo! Yo! Yo! Homey! Whassssssup!!!!

 

[Anubis C. Soundwave]

Hey! You forgot Hotwing!

When WE break into the industry, ADVISER Black will...stay dead.

Don't forget about such series as STAS and Gargoyles[1]. JL actually did well with GL-Stewart, despite the Hotwing[2] misgivings. Heck, even Spider-Man was decent in that department.

On drawing african-descent persons, Blue Sub 6 was one of the better ones. And CB of course. Gundam 0083 is another one.

==

1. I didn't even suspect what ethnic Elisa Maza was until I saw Deadly Force...and I didn't care.

2. Hotwing. They at Rankin-Bass tried so hard to put a "black" character in Silverhawks.

IOW, if my "demographic" can't fit into your show, don't try to cram him/her in--just concentrate on making an entertaining show.

==

GIJoe: I always though Alpine was Inuit/Aleut/Eskimo, not afrimerican. I also notice that NO african-descents were in COBRA. Don't know why not--they took in every other ethnic group. Even some wacko from Cobra-La. [don't mind me, I'm being goofy now.]

 

[Mynd Hed]

mr. popo (is he suposed to be a black man) from DBZ.

I'm not entirely certain, but I believe that Mr. Popo is an alien of some kind and not a black human. Still, Dragonball Z has plenty of other examples of negative stereotypes of black people, so your point remains.

And I don't think you're being overly sensitive, I don't think that an occasional racial stereotype character is super offensive, but in anime there is an alarming number of such characters, to the point where they may well be more common than actual accurate portrayals of persons of certain races. That's going a bit far in my opinion, and a bit more balance in the art form is certainly in order.

The only real example I can think of off the top of my head of an accurately portrayed recurring black character in anime is the host of Big Shots in Cowboy Bebop. He's a fairly minor character, but not only is he animated realistically instead of the "jet black skin big pink lips" thing, he's also a very sympathetic character from the little you see of him outside of hosting Big Shots. In his character as Big Shots host, he functions as comic relief, but he does it in a way that I feel should be non-offensive to black people. "Shucks howdy!"

 

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I would like people here to use examples of insulting portrayals before we discuss. Making broad statements isn't very useful.

I'd say the most "insulting" ethnic portrayals shown on TV so far would have to be G Gundam. And even there it isn't much worse than The Simpsons' stereotype.

Ohhhh. I forgot. The Simpsons is a "satire." So it's okay.

I think we have to "worry" about racial portrayals in North America first. There are so very, very few realistic characterizations of Asians, Blacks or Hispanics or East Indian or what in North America TV or film. And when they are close to real, they are boring and lifeless. So very, very boring.

BTW--Some anime fans felt the "Big Shot" host was an insulting portrayal. So it just goes to show it is all in the eye of the beholder.

You know what? I'm Asian and basically, we are stereotyped and portrayed idiotically in 75% of North American entertainment (Or, we are boring). But I'm not really insulted. Personally, I'd rather they write INTERESTING Asian characters rather than "positive" portrayals. That's why I like Khan in King of the Hill. He's loud, he's annoying, his accent is stereotypical, but he IS interesting! You don't see many Asians like him on TV.

So in the end, I just blame the writers when I see poor or boring ethnic portrayals. Rather than being insulted, I just feel exasperated at the lack of creativity and skill shown by today's writers.

 

[Dub]

I'm a black guy and I never found the Big Shot host in Cowboy Bebop offensive at all. He was just goofy IMO. Now you want something that I thought was kind of offensive I'd be quick to point out Killa in DBZ from the Worlds Martial Arts tournament. At least the Bigshot host was intelligible and funny. Killa? I couldnt even understand WHAT that mook was saying half of the dang time and the other half of the time I could barely make out his face. -_________-

But probably my most favorite scene with the CB Bigshot host was

Spoiler

The end where he approaches his mother in the airport scene. I thought that was pretty danged cool myself...

 

[Anyone00]

Well as been previously stated there's not alot a black people in Japan. Aren't white Americans often portrayed a certain way, and aren't there alot of stereotypes from their own culture(ok those are probably based more on social status and role in society) and cultures they're been historically in closer contact than the US (Little Chinese Commie Pig Oolong(sp?) in DB for example)that appear often in Anime and popular Japanese media? Do "African-Americans" get it a bit harsher than others? Yes, very most likely.

Well...there's Nadia Secrets of the Blue Water.

She looks more Polynesian to me (Do they ever say she's from Africa in the series? Honest question I don't know). Not to mention other Aboriginal Peoples from the South Pacific and Asian races or ethnicities or however it's considered that have typically darker skins than the typical Japanese person does that they've been in more contact with outside of the US media.

As for Mr. Popo I think he's either suppose to be based of a very dark-skinned Arab (either form the Middle East or Northern Africa) Genie or Based of Deities from Hindu Religion/Mythology with very dark black skin(I think there's some in there, not completely sure).

Anyway it is a different culture. Does that mean you should be complacent about it? No. Does that mean you should get all hot and bothered not? No.
Just get used to for the time being and if the opportunity presents itself to improve the situation and your offered your very own Anime series or if you can make friends with a guy or gal from Japan or end up living in Japan take it (but not by waving a banner declaring your race; just be a Person, not a "Black" Person, not a "White" Person, not a "Asian" Person, etc., etc., etc.; Just a Person).

 

[spyke]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo
Actually, there aren't that many blacks in anime to begin with. And I'd say about it's about 50-50 in terms of negative to positive portrayals.

Positive ones?

Brain Powered (Nice guy)
Armored Trooper Votoms (Major cast member, funny and cool guy)
Space Runaway Ideon (Major cast member, good guy)
Cowboy Bebop (some good, some bad minor characters...so I'd say it's just being realistic)
Revolutionary Girl Utena (Many major black characters. Most of them, men AND women, are portrayed as very erotic and "attractive" in this anime. Also very complex characters.)
Now and Then, Here and There (Cute black kid, major character)


That's just off the top of my head.

Ironically, Robotech (Macross) was the first children's animated show aired in the U.S. that actually portrayed a black woman and white man romantically linked. (Star Trek did the interracial kissing first for live-action). It was pretty radical at the time (yes, the 80s!)--many U.S. stations skipped the Claudia/Roy scenes or episodes.

I forgot about the comander in macross plus (and the black lady who was married to a pilot in that OAV series) as well as the black lady in Sin. Speaking of Sin, was the main character Blade suposed to be half black and half white? I also forgot about the black man from Brain Powered. Which is sad, since I own all those videos.

It's funny that you bring up the fact, that manny statins skipped over the claudia and roy romance, because a few years before CBS refused to approve/air the original proposal of filmation's blackstar cartoon, who was originaly supposed to be black (hence the name "Blackstar").

 

[spyke]

Originally posted by RZetlin
Well...there's Nadia Secrets of the Blue Water.

There's the commander from Macross Plus.

Remember that Japan doesn't have a large black population like in America so it's not suprising that Black characters in anime doesn't have a huge role.

Keep in mind that American animation hasn't totally figure out how to represent Black people properly.

1. I never saw nadia secrets of the blue water., so I never knew she was black.

2. As I said in my original post, I'm quite aware of some of the reasons why blacks are portrayed negativly in anime.

3. While I agree with you that american animation is'nt perfect in their portrayal of black people, I will say that they've made a greater effort and have done a far better job then the japanese have.

 

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by spyke
1. I never saw nadia secrets of the blue water., so I never knew she was black.

2. As I said in my original post, I'm quite aware of some of the reasons why blacks are portrayed negativly in anime.

3. While I agree with you that american animation is'nt perfect in their portrayal of black people, I will say that they've made a greater effort and have done a far better job then the japanese have.

I agree and I don't really agree. What American cartoons have had INTERESTING black characters, period, who were part of the main cast? Not many except Static Shock and Storm. The Simpsons? Dr. Hibbert, who hasn't really even had a whole episode devoted to him yet. King if the Hill? None! Family Guy? None! The PJs? Stereotypical working class black people! In my opinion, by making all these "bland" and "positive" black portrayals, they're short shrifting you guys. In anime, there are some insulting portrayals, but when they took the time to make good black characters, usually they ended up 10x more interesting and complex than some of the American animated "black" characters because they had personality!

Racial stereotyping in anime can be bad, but honestly, as a non-Japanese Asian, I haven't noticed it to be a major, major problem. They've stereotyped and insulted my race sometimes, but on the other hand, there have been an equal number of deep and thoughtful portrayals as well.

You can't expect every show to be great and non-offensive. Some will do it right and some will do it wrong. It's like saying you don't want any racists in America. Don't we all! But that isn't going to happen. Just because there are a few racists doesn't mean EVERYONE is a racist, right?

I think it holds true for anime animators and creators as well.

 

[Cyporiean]

Ya know, your right..

and ya know what else, they also portray white americans in a negitive light too.

We always seem to be Big, Stupid and egotistical in Anime. (Macross, DBZ, G Gundam).

what the heck is with that?

 

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

And all American shows seem to figure all Chinese people and all Japanese people have funny accents, rarely ever portraying those that don't. Furthermore, Americans often make Japanese jokes about Chinese culture, and vice versa. How about those Godzilla jokes in a Chinese themed show?

What's your point? Stereotypes are everywhere.

 

[Cyporiean]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo
What's your point? Stereotypes are everywhere.

^_^

We have a winner.

 

[spyke]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo
I agree and I don't really agree. What American cartoons have had INTERESTING black characters, period, who were part of the main cast? Not many except Static Shock and Storm. The Simpsons? Dr. Hibbert, who hasn't really even had a whole episode devoted to him yet. King if the Hill? None! Family Guy? None! The PJs? Stereotypical working class black people! In my opinion, by making all these "bland" and "positive" black portrayals, they're short shrifting you guys. In anime, there are some insulting portrayals, but when they took the time to make good black characters, usually they ended up 10x more interesting and complex than some of the American animated "black" characters because they had personality!

Winston from the real ghostbusters,dianah from the D&D cartoon,Doc from te galaxy rangers,war machine from the 2nd season of iron man,black panther from the 2nd season of the FF,stalker from GI JOE (although they did'nt show him much),GL john stewert from the justice league cartoon (he's more interesting in te JL cartoon then he's ever been in the comics),goran from the phantom 2040 cartoon,cyborg from the super powers cartoon,IQ from the bionic six (though at times he is a little borring),storm from x-men evolution,spyke (when he has an attitude) from x-men evolution,J from MIB,and elisa and derick mazda from gargoyles are great black characters in american animation.

I see te PJ's in the same light that you see khan fro king ofthe hill. It's stereotypical most of the time, but it's funny as hell.

 

[spyke]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo
And all American shows seem to figure all Chinese people and all Japanese people have funny accents, rarely ever portraying those that don't. Furthermore, Americans often make Japanese jokes about Chinese culture, and vice versa. How about those Godzilla jokes in a Chinese themed show?

Don't forget about every asian character isa master of martial arts stereotype in american caroons,movie's,and tv shows. Although, I should point out that characters like hadjie from jonny quest,super samurai from the freedom force cartoon,quick kick from GI JOE,and karati one from the bionic six, while still had the martial arts stereotype (and in te case of hadjie the "swamie" stereotype),the creators of those characters and cartoons, did try to expandthem beyond those basic stereotypes. There were also asian characters in american cartoons that were not portrayed stereotypicaly. Characters like sulu in the star trek cartoon,takagie from exo-squad, jubilee from x-men,mercury from the space sentinels,and jade from both the original and real adventure of jonny quest series. Speaking of jade and the original jonny quest series, did you know that the first interacial kss on tv was between race bannon and jade in the original JQ series, 3 or 4 years before kirk and uhurus kiss in the original star trek series.