Universal Kids (formerly Sprout) (TALKBACK)

[Tacomaster]

Remember when Sprout tried to do that on NBC? And it bombed horribly?

Or when Disney tried to do it on ABC Family? And they got fined by the FCC?

The NBC block didn’t “bomb horribly”, NBC realized that the “teen centric” Litton block could exploit a huge loophole (E/I programming must be targeted towards youth between 2 and 16, but the ad restrictions on kid shows only apply to ages 2 to 13).

Also, the FCC fines (actually FTC fines because cable) were, IIRC, because they advertised a product for a show during the show itself, which essentially makes the entire show a half hour commercial, by law.

 

[harry580]

The NBC block didn’t “bomb horribly”, NBC realized that the “teen centric” Litton block could exploit a huge loophole (E/I programming must be targeted towards youth between 2 and 16, but the ad restrictions on kid shows only apply to ages 2 to 13).

Also, the FCC fines (actually FTC fines because cable) were, IIRC, because they advertised a product for a show during the show itself, which essentially makes the entire show a half hour commercial, by law.

so, this is the whole nbc's no cartoons just tnbc block thing all over again right?

 

[Moe]

You know, maybe if Universal spun off USA Cartoon Express into it's own channel in say, 1996, 1997 or even 1998, then it would have done amazing, especially considering all the mass clout USA Networks had at the time and the block was still a bit popular. I feel that if that happened, then USACX would have become the fourth network and perhaps the alternative to Cartoon Network, especially in the late 2000s.

@Tacomaster, thoughts?

USA closed Cartoon Express after they lost the access to a lot of H-B cartoons after Turner bought in 1991 and that led USA tried to survive with '87 TMNT that was major role since many other cartoon shows were less known to audience. It didn't help when USA has syndication rights to 1st to 7th seasons of TMNT prior to shutdown and they never air 8th to 10th seasons.

After Cartoon Express closed, USA Action Extreme Team continued to run for 2 years until closed in 1998.

When Peacock launched, they carried some shows that aired on USA Action Extreme Team and whoa, it was long time.

If Universal win the bid to buy H-B cartoons in 1991 and there is no doubt that Cartoon Express would be evolved into own primary channel and later, secondary channel like Boomerang.

 

[Otakuninja2006]

Yeah, but the point is, they could have made more programming agreements and put all of their original programming on this network, in fact, if we put stuff from USA and Sci-Fi's kids blocks as well as their animation library and some third-party stuff together, they'd be able to cook up a great alternative to Cartoon Network by 1996.

 

[Goldstar!]

This is only tangentially related, but are any of the old Walter Lantz Universal cartoon shorts airing on Universal Kids at all? Apart from the Walter Lantz shorts and all the animated IPs owned by Dreamworks (including Dreamworks Classics), they could have a pretty substantial library of animated content for the channel.

 

[Otakuninja2006]

This is only tangentially related, but are any of the old Walter Lantz Universal cartoon shorts airing on Universal Kids at all? Apart from the Walter Lantz shorts and all the animated IPs owned by Dreamworks (including Dreamworks Classics), they could have a pretty substantial library of animated content for the channel.

See, that's why they should have just started this channel in the 90s, or at least brought Fox Family Worldwide.

 

[Tacomaster]

It's ironic. Universal barely had a kid library before they bought DreamWorks (with their blossoming TV lineup and their Classic Media library), but when they DID buy them out, cable was dying

 

[Otakuninja2006]

It's ironic. Universal barely had a kid library before they bought DreamWorks (with their blossoming TV lineup and their Classic Media library), but when they DID buy them out, cable was dying

Exactly, but even before then, they had YEARS to build one up. All they had to do was give the Cartoon Express it's own channel and make good originals.

 

[Tacomaster]

All they had to do was give the Cartoon Express it's own channel

Based on what? They had very little library to speak of. And while they did have a collection of acquisitions, I believe the CN presentation pitch said it best: "What will happen to those other start up channels once their programming licenses run out in a few years?"

Personally, I think Universal should have taken advantage of their USA Networks partnership with Paramount/Viacom and expanded it to Viacom's other cable channels, INCLUDING Nickelodeon.

 

[Otakuninja2006]

Based on what? They had very little library to speak of. And while they did have a collection of acquisitions, I believe the CN presentation pitch said it best: "What will happen to those other start up channels once their programming licenses run out in a few years?"

Personally, I think Universal should have taken advantage of their USA Networks partnership with Paramount/Viacom and expanded it to Viacom's other cable channels, INCLUDING Nickelodeon.

I know, but what if Viacom did......THEY KNEW!

So why didn't Universal MAKE them merge the networks?

I have a idea for a revamp for Nick.

But this is the scenario where they didn't so, they could acquire stuff, and you had a good idea with that Calliope channel.

 

[CNNickFan]

The NBC block didn’t “bomb horribly”, NBC realized that the “teen centric” Litton block could exploit a huge loophole (E/I programming must be targeted towards youth between 2 and 16, but the ad restrictions on kid shows only apply to ages 2 to 13).

In my opinion, it bombed, especially when you look at the ratings at the block from that time period (or saturday morning cartoons in general), it usually averaged below 200k.

Sprout, or Comcast, thought they would be able to reach a broader audience through saturday morning programming, and promote the Sprout channel itself, but failed to realize Network Television would probably be the last place you'd find preschoolers watching content.

Exactly, but even before then, they had YEARS to build one up. All they had to do was give the Cartoon Express it's own channel and make good originals.

Honestly, I can't see Cartoon Express even surviving the 2000's. Before Cartoon Network was a thing, a 24/7 channel devoted to entirely cartoons was kind of a wild idea, not only because of worries of low ratings, but the fact that no one had a strong enough library to justify doing it, until Ted Turner.

It was really hard for a cable channel to find footing in the 90's. Harder than it is today. Each network had their own identity/theme that separated them from others (Take MTV, Discovery Channel, TLC, even Nickelodeon as examples).

Even if Cartoon Express did end up being a thing, competition always exists, and it probably would have gotten shoved off a cliff by Nickelodeon, or some other network aimed at kids.

 

[Tacomaster]

In my opinion, it bombed, especially when you look at the ratings at the block from that time period (or saturday morning cartoons in general), it usually averaged below 200k.

Source?

 

[Moe]

In my opinion, it bombed, especially when you look at the ratings at the block from that time period (or saturday morning cartoons in general), it usually averaged below 200k.

Sprout, or Comcast, thought they would be able to reach a broader audience through saturday morning programming, and promote the Sprout channel itself, but failed to realize Network Television would probably be the last place you'd find preschoolers watching content.

Agreed with you.

Honestly, I can't see Cartoon Express even surviving the 2000's. Before Cartoon Network was a thing, a 24/7 channel devoted to entirely cartoons was kind of a wild idea, not only because of worries of low ratings, but the fact that no one had a strong enough library to justify doing it, until Ted Turner.

It was really hard for a cable channel to find footing in the 90's. Harder than it is today. Each network had their own identity/theme that separated them from others (Take MTV, Discovery Channel, TLC, even Nickelodeon as examples).

Even if Cartoon Express did end up being a thing, competition always exists, and it probably would have gotten shoved off a cliff by Nickelodeon, or some other network aimed at kids.

Remember about Fox Family Channel - they got struggle and eventually sold to Disney in 2001. ABC Family Channel aren't kid channel anymore after Jetix moved to Toon Disney, but weird, Disney air their movies on ABC Family/Freeform instead of Disney Channel.

Nickelodeon in early to mid 1980s was mostly live action and educational shows with cartoon take less than 10% of channel space and finally in late 1980s, they started to add more acquired cartoon shows like Looney Tunes. USA's Cartoon Express and TBS were more useful to watch cartoons than Nickelodeon at that time.

If Universal bought H-B cartoons in 1991 instead of Turner, so Universal would launch new 24/7 cartoon show evolve from Cartoon Express and make new cartoon shows. Turner wouldn't launch kids channel until late 1990s after bought WB. It means we would have too many kids channels by late 1990s and it wouldn't bad if 50% of WB and 50% of Universal own cartoon channel, rather than two main channels.

Note: Oops, I made mistake on Turner parts and I fixed it.

 

[Otakuninja2006]

Honestly, I can't see Cartoon Express even surviving the 2000's. Before Cartoon Network was a thing, a 24/7 channel devoted to entirely cartoons was kind of a wild idea, not only because of worries of low ratings, but the fact that no one had a strong enough library to justify doing it, until Ted Turner.

It was really hard for a cable channel to find footing in the 90's. Harder than it is today. Each network had their own identity/theme that separated them from others (Take MTV, Discovery Channel, TLC, even Nickelodeon as examples).

Even if Cartoon Express did end up being a thing, competition always exists, and it probably would have gotten shoved off a cliff by Nickelodeon, or some other network aimed at kids.

I know, but if USA Network was one of the Top 10 networks, then so could Cartoon Express if the right cards were played. Honestly, I'd launch the channel in '97, a year after the Viacom thing went haywire.

Remember about Fox Family Channel - they got struggle and eventually sold to Disney in 2001. ABC Family Channel aren't kid channel anymore after Jetix moved to Toon Disney, but weird, Disney air their movies on ABC Family/Freeform instead of Disney Channel.

Nickelodeon in early to mid 1980s was mostly live action and educational shows with cartoon take less than 10% of channel space and finally in late 1980s, they started to add more acquired cartoon shows like Looney Tunes. USA's Cartoon Express and TBS were more useful to watch cartoons than Nickelodeon at that time.

If Universal bought H-B cartoons in 1991 instead of Turner, so Universal would launch new 24/7 cartoon show evolve from Cartoon Express and make new cartoon shows. Turner wouldn't launch kids channel until late 1990s after bought WB. It means we would have too many kids channels by late 1990s and it wouldn't bad if 50% of WB and 50% of Universal own cartoon channel, rather than two main channels.

Note: Oops, I made mistake on Turner parts and I fixed it.

Fox Family with the management it had and the 700 Club thing, was basically not that well from the get-go.

On the other hand, a 50/50 Universal-Turner network could work as long as Turner merges his networks into the USA Networks group.

 

[CNNickFan]

Source?

I remember looking at ratings for the block from cynopsis kids, but those archives don't exist anymore. I'll try to find another source though. TheFutonCritc should have some.

EDIT: FutonCritic doesn't have any, to no suprise, and I cannot find ratings for the block on any TV ratings site, but if you count a NickandMore article from around this time a source, then here you go.

Vortexx: Expectations? Low | Nickandmore!

Saturday mornings on broadcast TV used to be kid central, until about 2002. That’s when Saban exited the kid biz and sold to Disney. That’s also when CBS went Nick, ABC went Disney Channel, Fox went Box (4Kids) and Kids’ WB was the only ‘90s stronghold left.

www.nickandmore.com

This article was made right before the Vortexx block launched, and it goes into detail about how low ratings for Saturday Morning programming were. According to this article, the NBC Kids block averaged a 0.2 rating, which while we don't know total viewers, that's definitely not good for the K2-5 demo.

And we can assume if the block launched with ratings that low, then ratings wouldn't decline, but instead stay stagnant, which is also not good.

But yeah, I still think that cross-promoting the Universal Kids channel on another network wouldn't have helped it. Like I said, it's about 15 years late.

 

[Tacomaster]

so 1) plans for the universal kids rebrand predate the dreamworks buyout, 2) there were universal monsters series planned for it, and 3) those ideas were cancelled when dreamworks came along

 

[harry580]

yeah, I feel like dreamworks changed universal animation alot and cause cancellation of things and cutting ties with laika which was universal's pixar before dreamworks

and also, I felt like they could have launch universal kids early so it could be successful (but moderate successful due to streaming)

 

[Tacomaster]

and also, I felt like they could have launch universal kids early so it could be successful (but moderate successful due to streaming)

In 2017? And by taking over a preschool channel, angering a ton of parents when they start airing older skewing content? Not a chance.

 

[Tacomaster]

Kelly Munson

Sprout has been known as a leader in programming for toddlers. But as they hoped to start creating programming for older kids they had acquired some unfortunate baggage of being seen as a “network for babies.” We sought out to combat this perception by creating a brand campaign titled "Free to Grow" that communicated sophistication and modernity. Real life objects arranged in playful compositions plugged nicely into their digital properties and became the key design language of this campaign. (created at mono with Riley Kane & Kristen Meyer)

apparently the free to grow brand was meant to age up sprout- not to universal kids levels, but to slightly older kids

 

[themidnightlore]

Now I wonder if it's too late to rebrand Universal Kids into Dreamworks TV or something. But I feel that would do nothing for improve the ratings.