Why do you hate Max?

[Peter Paltridge]

What did she ever do to YOU?

Yes, I ask this upon reading the bold assertion of Mr. Stu in the Batman Beyond vol. 2 review:

However! Kids WB! For those always annoying “demographic” reasons had decided that making Batman a teenager and giving him a teenage supporting cast wasn’t quite enough and insisted that Batman be given a best friend who play a major role in each episode – enter Max, Batman’s ever annoying would be sidekick. This of course pushed the focus on Old Man Wayne and Terry out of the way. Thus, each episode had less time devoted to the villain and the show failed to reach the previous brilliant levels it established in it’s opening season. Yes, Max was as annoying as hell. She is generally regarded as one of the major negatives of the DCU, with good reason. The show, simply put, is better when she isn’t present. Thankfully, around this era, the spectacular Return Of The Joker Direct to Video was released, and Max was nowhere to be found in the feature.

Huh? What? I loved Max. What am I missing here? I thought she was a great addition and added depth to the show. I like to see a superhero have a "friend who knows," and the spunkier the better. I also liked that it happened midway through the series--that made it unexpected, intentional or not.

I wouldn't have wanted her in Return of the Joker, though....she would clash with the dark epic mood of that film. It's worth pointing out that the writers knew when and when not to show Max. Many of the series' darker episodes did not have her. That two-part "cobra man" thing did, but that story would have been lousy with or without Max.

I resent the insinuation that Max's appearance in any episode dooms it. Max was the focal point of one of my favorites, the episode where people get hooked on holographic lifestyles. It was done exactly how it would happen in real life, and predated Evercrack by several years. A VERY insightful show that made you think. And Max was perfect in it; it fleshed out her character well.

There have been plenty of characters forced into shows by network execs, and most of them have been lousy. But don't forget the entire Batman Beyond show itself was a network suggestion. Bruce and co. knew exactly what to do, and I think they also knew what to do when asked to create a "spunky sidekick." Compare Max's presence to Batgirl's in The Batman. Be grateful for Max.

 

[Dean Cain]

Actually, after watching some Max centered episodes recently I have to agree. A few months ago I would froth and foam at the thought of Max, but honestly she wasn't such an obtrusive presence in the show. She'd normally pop up, make a few one liners, help Terry out with something, then take a hike. I was perfectly fine with that, and if she got an episode here and there I don't mind. Though the problem with her is that every second of airtime devoted to her is airtime that won't go to any of the other established characters. Though I think this is an issue that should be taken up with the writers and directors, rather than with a fictional character.

 

[Cortez2301]

Shes nice...but very annoying.While you have a very dark show you don't need someone like her to lighten up the mood.You have Terry to do that.

 

[Aldrius]

She's too token for me to enjoy her. =S

I would have much preffered pre-crisis Huntress... but whatever.

 

[Alex Weitzman]

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/sections/fanworks/edits/procon/procon7a.php

TOM's editorial on target characters explains a good deal of the problem of Max. In effect, Max represented every element of the show that pulled it in more immature and useless directions. Her presence emphasized high school, Batman-as-a-hobby, callousness towards the riskier emotional elements of the series, and villains who are comic annoyances rather than deadly threats. Her most famous emasculation (for lack of a better word) of a villain happened for Curare, who went from unstoppable assassin to bumbler unable to kill one unskilled girl. Plots meant to fold Max in more intimately inevitably changed the nature of the series: instead of a story about a young man breaching into the world of adult danger as personified by Batman, the story became one of Batman sinking to the level of children.

That's why Max isn't liked much.

EDIT: Actually, TOM has a whole essay on Max alone: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/sections/fanworks/edits/procon/procon1.php

 

[creativerealms]

Actually, after watching some Max centered episodes recently I have to agree. A few months ago I would froth and foam at the thought of Max, but honestly she wasn't such an obtrusive presence in the show. She'd normally pop up, make a few one liners, help Terry out with something, then take a hike. I was perfectly fine with that, and if she got an episode here and there I don't mind. Though the problem with her is that every second of airtime devoted to her is airtime that won't go to any of the other established characters. Though I think this is an issue that should be taken up with the writers and directors, rather than with a fictional character.

So now your here at toon zone too huh?

Anyway I never really fond Max that annoying myself. I actually liked it that Terry had someone his age that he could talk to about his secret. Someone that could cover for him when he had to become Batman. I feel it really worked out. Yeah she got annoying at times like when she wanted more of an important role on the team but for the most part I did not find her annoying.

 

[CyberCubed]

Don't people hate Max for the same reason they hate Batgirl in The Batman?

 

[Bird Boy]

Don't people hate Max for the same reason they hate Batgirl in The Batman?

I dunno. Max just annoyed me, while Batgirl is just...useless. Max helped, but she was also naggy and...well, Curare should've killed her instead of that foot stool.

-BB

 

[Wonderwall]

I didnt hate Max, but I didnt like her all that much. She was pretty useless, i dont ever remember her helping all that much or in a way that didnt seem contrived. And Cree Summer as a VA, you either love or hate her, I personally think she does little girl voices great but anything over the age of 13 usually makes me cringe.

 

[Monterey Jack]

I enjoyed Max. I actually thought Terry had better chemistry with her than with Dana, and always wondered, if the show had run longer, if the two of them might have become romantically involved. Hey, every incarnation of Batman needs his "Alfred" to help gather clues and cover up. And, let's face it, Max is a lot easier on the eyes than Alfred.

 

[adoptedBatpuppy]

There was a reason the writers and the directors of the show brought her in, right?
I don't really mind her as much, in fact some episodes with her are pretty decent!
In other episodes she was annoying...

 

[Wolf Boy2]

I'm just gonna be blunt and say the obvious. The DCAU was too white and too male at the time. B:TAS was almost ENTIRELY male characters, and the only females were beauty tokens or damsels in destress. Other than Earl and Lucius Fox, there were no black faces on B:TAS.

Not that this was bad. It just was what it was. The story never called for anything else. B:TAS also lacked young characters.

Then comes BB, which although they handled it really well, was one big tokenpalooza. A teenage hero. High tech fantasy weapons and laser beams. Rock music score. Terry's world was nothing but MTV-lite, a concession to the network marketos that wanted to capitalize.

Since they had already turned Batman into a child, the next likely step for them to take was to add a black/female token. Old Bruce needed to be pushed aside, because he endangered the kid appeal of the show. The show also got consistantly less gritty as the 2nd and 3rd seasons went on. It became (in short) the kid's show that B:TAS never was.

Static Shock was just as bad. What did Ricky really do for the stories in the beginning, other than be a token white kid? Well, he did invent stuff (but until you see the Gear episode, his genious seems really contrived and cartoony).

I must admit that as a child, I liked him because he was white like me. But he was really out of place, and he was really a sterotype. Hip-hop black kid and nerdy white kid. What a pair of cliches.

Now let's contrast SS and BB to JLU. JLU had a s***load of female characters (WW, Shayera, Katma, Huntress, Canary, etc) and ethic ones too. But these characters were written into the stories because they were nesscessary to the PLOT, not because the show needed diversity.

I think story ought to preceed diversity. If that means an all-black or all-white show, than SO BE IT. As a white guy, I'd rather watch an entire cast of well-developed black characters than a mixed cast of stereotypes that includes the cliche blond-haired blue-eyed computer nerd with glasses.

IDK how black people feel, but I can imagine they would agree. Useless token characters are more of an insult than anything else, because it implies that people wont watch something unless one of the characters is of their race.

And that's why Max annoyed me.

Also her voice was too chirpy.

 

[James]

I didn't loathe Max - as a supporting character I thought she was fine - but I did find her implementation was too excessive; she just took the role of whatever dynamic that was required. She felt forced in, one could almost say "Mary Sue" so far as the character subverted the duality of Terry's life and took over each character role. No need for Dana anymore, we have Max as Terry's friends. What's that? Need someone for advise? Forget Bruce, Max is there to confide into. What's that? Need to gain some info? Forget Gordon or Wayne, Max is a savvy computer whizz, she'll help! Oh what? We need someone to give Terry a slap? Forget his family, Max sees the picture and can tell him what's what.

In essense, her role was too large and just by being large sort of pushed the need of the playing pieces on either side of Terry's life into the background. She was just present in every aspect and because she was part of his light and dark became an easy cypher for the writers when necessary. This was more so in season 2 than season 3 where she sort of found her footing more. But yes, I felt she was a good character forced into the show and thereby suffocated the other characters by being "fortunate" enough to not just be close friend, but close ally in Terry's mixed up world. I found myself resenting this excessive intrusion in a show that had found a good balance of characters and dynamics.

 

[Reverend]

Her most famous emasculation (for lack of a better word) of a villain happened for Curare, who went from unstoppable assassin to bumbler unable to kill one unskilled girl.

Now to me, that scene says allot about Curare as a character. Of course she could have sliced Max in two without batting an eye, but why would she? She's come looking for one of her former collegues and finds a cowering girl who is of no threat whatsoever. I think if anything this demonstraites that Curare is a consumate professional. She's only interested in killing her target and takes it as a matter of professional pride that she doesn't leave behind allot of collateral damage. After all, that's what clients would like, nice clean kills, no complications.

Indeed in her original appearance she could have sliced her way through half of the GCPD before she got to Gordon's husband, so I don't think her encounter with Max detracts from her skill in anyway.

As for Max's part in the encounter, I think it was a very important part of her character's growth, she's done something rather reckless and as a result was dealt a deathly serious scare. If anything she showed that what Terry does is no game and not just anybody can pull on a pair of tights and jump out the window.

Regarding the larger issues surrounding Max, I'm in the camp that really doesn't mind her and actually see's potential value in her presence.
Indeed I've had a few heated debates regarding this with James on DKA and as a result (I think) we've used her in a more prominent way (though don't take her current activities on the strip as our opinion as what she should be.)
To me it's not the charater that was a problem in the show, I think most people took offence at the suddeness and frequency of her involvment.
That plus she often took the place of Bruce in the story structure, when Bruce is clearly cooler.
Personally, I see her as an "Oracle in training", rather than the often feared "Batgirl Beyond".

 

[Stu]

In essense, her role was too large and just by being large sort of pushed the need of the playing pieces on either side of Terry's life into the background. She was just present in every aspect and because she was part of his light and dark became an easy cypher for the writers when necessary. This was more so in season 2 than season 3 where she sort of found her footing more. But yes, I felt she was a good character forced into the show and thereby suffocated the other characters by being "fortunate" enough to not just be close friend, but close ally in Terry's mixed up world. I found myself resenting this excessive intrusion in a show that had found a good balance of characters and dynamics.

That's what annoyed me most - Max took over every role in both Terry and Batman's supporting cast, essentially merging the two different personalities into one, not as interesting persona. Not to mention the fact I liked the majority of the supporting cast and the villains in Batman Beyond, all so Max could have more screen time because some network suit felt more girls needed to watch a boys action show.

I was actually in the target auidence for this cartoon when it first appeared over here and I found myself constantly annoyed at just how much she was on screen even then. Now I'm a wee bit older, it annoys me even more.

It's a shame this season never quite reached the heights of season one, but then again, few things have.

 

[Alex Weitzman]

Now to me, that scene says allot about Curare as a character. Of course she could have sliced Max in two without batting an eye, but why would she? She's come looking for one of her former collegues and finds a cowering girl who is of no threat whatsoever. I think if anything this demonstraites that Curare is a consumate professional. She's only interested in killing her target and takes it as a matter of professional pride that she doesn't leave behind allot of collateral damage. After all, that's what clients would like, nice clean kills, no complications.

Uh, it wasn't for a lack of trying to kill her.

 

[Revelator]

There was a reason the writers and the directors of the show brought her in, right?

Yeah, it was network interference. I remember reading Paul Dini grumble about max on his journal and being overjoyed that he was also annoyed at her imposition.

 

[Stu]

Series writer Stan Berkowitz wasn't too impressed with her inclusion based on the interview I did with him about Batman Beyond for World's Finest a few months back.

 

[SilentBat18]

Like others have said, i dont hate her but i dont like her either. I'm just glad Curare scared the wits out of her (go Curare!) and bring her back down to reality. she seems pretty useless too, other than the fact that she is like an "Alfred" there is no other reason for her to take on character's jobs. (BTW i am so glad she and Ter never got her romantically involved or anything like that *shudders*)

You need info Ter? one word: Batcomputer!
You need mission advice? Brucie's been in the business for quite some time. "World's Greatest detective"? Duh?

Otherwise, Max is best for talking. you know, that friend who knows your secret and what not. I'm really glad they didnt go in the Batgirl direction though. OY that would have been horrible thought she was Max so ready for it when in reality, she wasnt. she cant fill those shoes....

but she really pissed me off when she underestimated what Terry does. it's not as easy as Terry makes it look.

 

[veemonjosh]

​

"Terry, my face is up HERE."​