Why do you hate Max?

[Nightwing]

But doesn't Big Time recognize Dana as Terry's girl? Wouldn't that imply that they have been dating or at least close friends for several years before Terry became Batman?

If he did, then it stands to reason that he could. I don't remember the line or the scene (except a picture of them sitting at some sort of cafe table hang out a la Saved By The Bell).

I was implying that I don't feel they're as close as some have said. I'm just not feeling it, partially because of her flip flip emotional states between "I hate Terry's job" and "I understand Terry's job" throughout the course of the show's season 2 episodes out of convenience for the story.

But surely, what we see of Dana only in "Rebirth" can't constitute proof they they're soul mates who have been dating for years.

 

[murmur]

The actual relationship between Dana and Terry had mostly just started around the first episode. In "Rebirth" you hear Terry's mom let him know "that friend of yours, Dana, called. She left a number."

Actually, I think the point of that dialogue was to demonstrate how out of touch Terry and his mom were, making the loss of his father that much more painful.

Not that I'm a fan of assumptions or implications, but that implies they weren't as solid a couple at the start of the first season.

That, plus the fact that they're only teenagers, doesn't give me much reason to believe their bond is a strong one, unless there is a very thought provoking story element that provides character development to the contrary.

It's entirely possible that they just weren't that serious. It's also possible that they had deep and meaningful bonds. What I felt disappointed about was the fact that the only part of the relationship that was really examined was the toll Terry's heroics took on it. It's just difficult to know whether their interests and ideals were compatible when they're never discussed. When they actually did have time for each other, they were at some plot-moving school event or club scene where they were free to be shallow teenagers, giving us no clue as to whether deeper moments were possible. Or maybe the problem is that Dana hardly existed outside of Terry, and we really don't know much about her except that she's fairly hot and intelligent.

In the end, Epilogue was still believable, because we have no reason to think that they wouldn't work as long as Terry worked past the lone wolf hero complex of his predecessor. Being that Terry's ability to overcome that aspect of the Batman mythos was one of the main points of the episode, it was a rewarding resolution, but it would have felt a lot moreso had I a reason to relate to Dana and care about her as an individual.

 

[Christopher Glennon]

It's entirely possible that they just weren't that serious. It's also possible that they had deep and meaningful bonds. What I felt disappointed about was the fact that the only part of the relationship that was really examined was the toll Terry's heroics took on it. It's just difficult to know whether their interests and ideals were compatible when they're never discussed. When they actually did have time for each other, they were at some plot-moving school event or club scene where they were free to be shallow teenagers, giving us no clue as to whether deeper moments were possible.

I got the impression from "Rebirth" that Terry and Dana weren't really dating and that the first time he actually tried to make a move on her was during the dance in the golem episode.

Wait, is this a Dana thread? Wait, why do they need Max for a minority teenage female character if they already had Dana in a pretty large role? And if they wanted a black character, there's always Mr. Batgirl.

I always liked Max, she and Terry had a nice friendship. I didn't want to see her become Batgirl, and I didn't like her taking some time away from the Terry/Bruce relationship, but outside of that, no major complaints.

 

[Antiyonder]

Wait, is this a Dana thread? Wait, why do they need Max for a minority teenage female character if they already had Dana in a pretty large role? And if they wanted a black character, there's always Mr. Batgirl.

Actually, there was talk of using the Pre-Crisis Version of the Huntress, Helena Wayne.

 

[Peter Paltridge]

Actually, I think the point of that dialogue was to demonstrate how out of touch Terry and his mom were, making the loss of his father that much more painful.

EXACTLY. Until that point, Terry lived with his dad! His mom barely knew who Dana was! That doesn't count as proof they became an item in the pilot.

 

[James]

But surely, what we see of Dana only in "Rebirth" can't constitute proof they they're soul mates who have been dating for years.

I for one don't think anyone suggested they were soulmates, my point was we never got to see their relationship before the complications of duality set in. To me, it looked like a normal teenage relationship. One that probably had some underscored hidden strengths for it to survive the Batman. If it wasn't for Epilogue, I'd say that could have just been laziness of the partners not facing the issues involved, but Epilogue tells us it doesn't just survive, it grows. Through what we don't know.

My point was we can't simply address the nature of their relationship on the BB period in which it what sorely tested. We never see it in an "untested" state.

But yes, this is way off topic now. Let me just say then I don't like Max's haircut. Way too short.

 

[Reverend]

Don't knock it, short hair is easier to draw.

I was implying that I don't feel they're as close as some have said. I'm just not feeling it, partially because of her flip flip emotional states between "I hate Terry's job" and "I understand Terry's job" throughout the course of the show's season 2 episodes out of convenience for the story.

Not to put too fine a point on it be she is a teenage girl. Emotional flip flops are par for the course, especially under duress.


Yeah, anyway back to Max. I think people's opinion of Max (the ones who care anyway) is mostly down to how they feel about how she was used on the show. Personally I didn't watch the show regularly or in the propper order (and if it wasn't for the internet, I'd never have seen the 3rd season at all) so I never got the impression that Max was intentionally being "pushed" to the forefront, as from my POV she was just there from the get go.

 

[Alex Weitzman]

But yes, this is way off topic now. Let me just say then I don't like Max's haircut. Way too short.

When you can make short hair work, it's fine. She should stop buying Pencil Eraser #2 dye at the local GothamMart, though.

 

[Arsenal]

This is beginning to remind me of the Hawkgirl complaint thread.

I thought Terry's character growth was occasionally stunted in favor of making Max useful. Terry had some burgeoning computer skills. Max appears, and she--as hacker supreme--makes it so Terry never has to be computer competent again. She was a crutch.

In general, her character struck me as redundant. Terry needs a female confidante or someone his own age to talk to. He has Dana. He needs someone to help him solve cases. He has Bruce. He needs someone that he is responsible for. He has a younger brother. He needs someone to who challenges him as both Batman and Terry. There's Melanie and Big Time.

The one thing she added was someone else who knew his dual identity. Personally, I think it would have opened more storytelling possibilities if Dana knew his identity; but that's an uninformed opinion.

Why do I not like Max? She's superfluos.

 

[EazyV]

I'm barely watching season 2 of BB right now and even though I grew with the show, I don't really remember it since I was around the age of 13/14. My lil brother remembers her though, he hates her lol.

But question...her voice sounds familiar. Is that the same chick who played Freddie in Different World? Because if it is.... I ever knew!

 

[Arsenal]

It is Freddie. (I loved that show... well, except the first season.) Also, Cree Summer does a lot of voice acting. She's Numbah Five in Codename: Kids Next Door, Penny in Inspector Gadget, Elmyra in Animaniacs, Foxxy Love in Drawn Together, Frightwig in Ben 10, Valerie Grey in Danny Phantom, Rayna in The Buzz on Maggie, Susie Carmichael in Rugrats and All Grown Up, Tiff Krust is My Life as a Teenage Robot and she's done guest spots in everything from Gargoyles to Justice League Unlimited to Camp Lazlo to the Weekenders.

Her voice should sound familiar. It's practically everywhere.

 

[The Spirit]

She's also Cleo on Clifford the Big Red Dog.

 

[EazyV]

It is Freddie. (I loved that show... well, except the first season.) Also, Cree Summer does a lot of voice acting. She's Numbah Five in Codename: Kids Next Door, Penny in Inspector Gadget, Elmyra in Animaniacs, Foxxy Love in Drawn Together, Frightwig in Ben 10, Valerie Grey in Danny Phantom, Rayna in The Buzz on Maggie, Susie Carmichael in Rugrats and All Grown Up, Tiff Krust is My Life as a Teenage Robot and she's done guest spots in everything from Gargoyles to Justice League Unlimited to Camp Lazlo to the Weekenders.

Her voice should sound familiar. It's practically everywhere.

That's a bigger shocked then when I learned Batman was played by Eric Mathews from Boy Meets Worlds. Nah, I can't hate on Max then, I'm always gonna be imagining her as the hippie girl she used to play as

 

[Batlaw]

I just found Max Annoying. Primarily because as its been said, she was all but completely unecessary. As such, her appearances and presence always came off so deliberate and "planted". Still, she couldve been worse and didnt ruin the series for me... although it did knock it's overall and previous quality down a couple pegs.

 

[GregX]

Max was the Scrappy Doo of the series.

 

[Harvey Two Face]

I never really minded except for the odd annoyance when there wasn't enough batman action but other than that I didnt really care.

 

[reflection01]

I wonder how people who disliked Max feel about Chloe's current role on Smallville.

 

[Magmafire2374]

My two cents (take it for what it's worth):

The way I see it, Terry as Batman didn't have a "Robin" or "Batgirl" to tag team with to fight crime like Bruce had. Max filled the sidekick role nicely at certain times. It's the same thing with how Richie helped Virgil (before Richie became Gear) in Static Shock. If BB continued for another season or two, I could see Max becoming part of the Bat Family and perhaps even joining the JLU of the future as some kind of masked crimefighter herself.

The high school theme did not detract from the shows in my opinion. We saw in BTAS/TNBA Bruce in his everyday life (working at Wayne Tech or at Wayne Manor). In BB we see Terry in his everyday life as well (the high school and his relationship with his peers and his family at home). The HS sceens helped the audience to connect to Terry on a more personal level (atleast to me it did). In the beginning when I first began watching Batman Beyond, my inital reaction was "What!! Who is this guy who is replacing Bruce after the awesomeness of BTAS and TNBA!! What kind of a name is Terry!?!," and I instinctively wanted to find reasons not to like him. However as the series continued, we kept seeing Terry outside of the Batman costume, which helped me in connecting with the character. I saw how he felt about his father's death, his peers, his girlfriend, Bruce, his family and I eventually grew to like him. I consider Terry on par with all the great superheroes, and the high school themed episodes and Max are partially responsible for that.

 

[ROBOTRON]

- I liked Max, she was ok.

She was annoying in a few episodes, but needed in most of em'. She made conveinient excuses for Terry when he needed to change into Batman. She was also needed in episodes like "Hooked Up" with SPELLBINDER. I wish they would've developed her more and made her more interesting.

If you want to complain about Terry's supporting cast, complain about the fat, rich kid that bought the robot girlfriend in "Terry's friend dates a Robot".

He was really annoying and was featured in several episodes.