Why do you think Cartoon Network has always trailed behind Nickelodeon and Disney Channel in the viewership ratings?

[Sam the Cartoonist]

I've always thought of YTV and Teletoon as Canadian counterparts to Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network since they aired much of the same shows.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

While this is true for USA, outside of it is kind of a different story. There are countries where CN is #1 kids channel. Heck I believe that CN was #1 network in my country back in 2000s, though Nick and Disney Channel didn't launched in my country yet back then.

Not only that but Cartoon Network was the first of the big three to launch in Portugal back in 1993, eight years before the launch of Disney Channel Portugal and twelve years before the launch of Nickelodeon Portugal.

 

[Red Arrow]

Not only that but Cartoon Network was the first of the big three to launch in Portugal back in 1993, eight years before the launch of Disney Channel Portugal and twelve years before the launch of Nickelodeon Portugal.

But CN was the very last to localize in Portugal, only in 2013.

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

But CN was the very last to localize in Portugal, only in 2013.

Of course but localised or not, I still consider 1993 to be the year when Cartoon Network Portugal began broadcasting before it finally became a localised Portuguese language channel nearly eight years ago.

 

[Red Arrow]

Cartoon Network Portugal

It was Cartoon Network EMEA (Europe/Middle East/Africa), not Cartoon Network Portugal.

1993 is when Cartoon Network started in the UK. Do you know the actual year that Portuguese TV providers added Cartoon Network? In many European countries, Cartoon Network EMEA wasn't actually available on cable in 1993. It was only available on satellite for many Europeans, so then all British and German and pan-Arabic channels are also "Portuguese".

 

[Francisque]

I consider a lack of localization , even lack of subtitling , as a "non. Channel"..

In that sense, Cartoon Network didn't launch in Portugal until 2013

 

[RegularCapital]

Portugal had CN UK/Europe since launch, however only some parts of Portugal were cabled at the time, with Madeira being the first place to have cable television in 1992, in 1994 it started being rolled out in the mainland. As CN was FTA back then, anyone with a dish pointing at Astra could receive CN. By the mid-to-late 90's, cable was rolled out in the major towns and cities in the country. As evident from the TV Cabo website from 1996, they definitely had CN on cable back then.

From my perspective, my area has been cabled since 1992.

 

[BlooCNBoy02]

Not only that but Cartoon Network was the first of the big three to launch in Portugal back in 1993, eight years before the launch of Disney Channel Portugal and twelve years before the launch of Nickelodeon Portugal.

Almost the same for Hungary. The Hungarian CN (part of CEE) launched in 2002, 2 years after Nickelodeon Europe got a Hungarian audio track and 7 years before Disney Channel (Fox Kids and Jetix not counted).

 

[BlooCNBoy02]

While this is true for USA, outside of it is kind of a different story. There are countries where CN is #1 kids channel. Heck I believe that CN was #1 network in my country back in 2000s, though Nick and Disney Channel didn't launched in my country yet back then.

In my country, CN was the 10th most watched channel in 2007. Jetix (Disney Channel's predecessor here back then) was the 19th, and Nickelodeon had a very low availability (this was because UPC removed Nickelodeon in December 2004, for 4 years!)

 

[AdrenalineRush1996]

It was only available on satellite for many Europeans, so then all British and German and pan-Arabic channels are also "Portuguese".

Still doesn't mean you need to correct me on that just because I count the twenty years as a pan-European channel as the first twenty years for the Portuguese channel before it was localised in 2013 and also, the British version of Cartoon Network didn't become localised until 1999, so disagree with me all you want on this but I'm moving on since I don't want this thread to end up being over which years should count or shouldn't count for the Portuguese version.

I consider a lack of localization, even lack of subtitling, as a "non. Channel"..

In that sense, Cartoon Network didn't launch in Portugal until 2013.

Well, I don't even agree on that a pan-European channel without localisation (i.e. subtitling) is considered a "non. channel". Besides, I actually learned English as a result of watching shows from said channel when I was a little boy in Portugal.

 

[Francisque]

Yeah, but these international channels are not important for advertisers and so on, and did not care about a presence in the Portuguese media, as opposed to post-2013

 

[Red Arrow]

the British version of Cartoon Network didn't become localised until 1999

The British feed has British ads since 1993 and of course English audio for everything since 1993, so it has been localized since 1993.

Anyways, back on topic, in my country and seemingly many others, Nickelodeon is the most popular kids channel and I have never really understood why. Nickelodeon's international schedules tend to be better than the American one, like "repaired" versions of the American feed, with most programs getting enough timeslots and most of them also get all episodes aired on TV. So that's nice I guess. They also tend to add third-party shows in case the schedule still looks too empty. Here they recently added Pokémon because there are not that many new Nicktoons right now.

Despite all the effort, I still don't fully understand how Nickelodeon gets to be more popular than CN and Disney. I feel like it can't have anything to do with the programs. It has to be because of the branding or because of marketing. Or maybe I am just in denial

 

[aegisrawks]

For those wanting CN to be top dog your wish has come true in Latin America.

 

[MissionHill4Ever]

It comes down to branding and being first to market.

-Disney is a powerhouse brand that goes back generations with movies & stars. They already had a built in audience. Then they've just added with their tween-com type shows with stars. Stuck to a formula and it worked.

-Nickelodeon had a jump start on CN. Nick started doing original programing a bit more sooner. They got The Rugrats which was the powerhouse of the 1990's and then Spongebob after that in 1999 going strong until today. The best place for kids...the orange logo....slime....and they also had a good mix of live action shows and cartoons to balance the lineup.

CN just was the HB and WB library of re-runs until they got more original content. Although they built a brand, they didn't have a SpongeBob. They changed missions when Snyder took over as they pushed all the old out and made it a new entity. The network was known for wacky toons and action. In another world, CN probably should've pushed harder to get Pokemon on their network instead of Kids WB! as that would've taken the network to another level.

 

[CookieS]

Ever since they lost the Cartoon Cartoons, it feels like CN as a whole has nothing over the competition (Nick and Disney) and will always trail behind in 3rd place, so they keep experimenting with all kinds of random stuff just to see what'll catch on. Why are they like this?

I think there are several reasons, some including:

• Cartoon Network has the least amount of history compared to Disney Channel and Nickelodeon. Being first to market doesn't dictate a winner, but it gives a major advantage.
• Cartoon Network has done little to program for a wider age audience compared to the other two. For example, their first attempt at pre-school programming was in 2005, decades after the competition (Nick Jr. around '93 and Playhouse Disney around '97).
• Cartoon Network was late to launching programming for adults and teens (Nick at Nite in '85, Snick in '92, there are more examples as well).
• Some of the biggest programming hits for Disney Channel include non-animated programming, such as Lizzie McGuire, That's So Raven, The Suite Life of Zack & Cody, Hannah Montana, and their countless original movies. These often had crossover appeal by turning some of their actors into pop music stars.
• Likewise, Nickelodeon had many non-animated series such as Clarissa Explains It All, Double Dare, Zoey 101, iCarly, Nickelodeon Guts, and more. To a lesser extent than Disney, Nickelodeon also leveraged a few of its stars into the music industry.
• Both Disney and Nickelodeon are more aggressive in their approach to consumer goods and licensing, which helps elevate popularity.

The short answer is that the competition offers programs for a wider age range and also offers various formats, including live-action, animation, game shows, and "experiences" with their stars (music releases, hosting events, celebrity spectacle). Comparatively, Cartoon Network isn't playing the same game as Disney or Nickelodeon. At least not at the same level. This doesn't mean the programming is worse, but it does mean as far as competing for the public's attention, they are far behind.

 

[R Lopez]

The short answer is that the competition offers programs for a wider age range and also offers various formats, including live-action, animation, game shows, and "experiences" with their stars (music releases, hosting events, celebrity spectacle).

This is a really good point. And, as others have already suggested, it's the context for the live-action phase of the late 2000s. That era also featured a big push in the made-for-TV movie department, but that's always been Disney Channel's domain.

It's already been established in this thread that CN did very well in the late 90's and early 2000s. That's an era in which the network wasn't afraid to attract much older audiences than just their target demos. That's why "Space Ghost Coast to Coast" happened and, ultimately, why Adult Swim happened. But it's also why "Samurai Jack" happened---can you imagine that show on any of the other kid networks at that time?

When Adult Swim took off, and was eventually recognized as a separate channel by Nielsen, CN decided to just be a "normal" kids network in the way that Nick and Disney Channel were. They lost their edge. That edge came back during the "Regular Show" era, but has since disappeared again.

I think it's a shame that CN can't air a show like "Bob's Burgers." It's about as kid friendly as an "adult" animated show can be. Historically, the network has always done well when it's willing to be just a little bit edgy.

 

[TheMisterManGuy]

It's already been established in this thread that CN did very well in the late 90's and early 2000s. That's an era in which the network wasn't afraid to attract much older audiences than just their target demos. That's why "Space Ghost Coast to Coast" happened and, ultimately, why Adult Swim happened. But it's also why "Samurai Jack" happened---can you imagine that show on any of the other kid networks at that time?

When Adult Swim took off, and was eventually recognized as a separate channel by Nielsen, CN decided to just be a "normal" kids network in the way that Nick and Disney Channel were. They lost their edge. That edge came back during the "Regular Show" era, but has since disappeared again.

That's what people forget. Cartoon Network of the late 90s and early 2000s wasn't really a traditional kids network like Nickelodeon was. Nick's motto in the 90s was "Kids Rule!" Cartoon Network took more of a Pixar approach, marketing itself as a channel aimed at cartoon fans, as well as children. That was a much more unique strategy than trying to make a Nickelodeon knock-off, which Turner could've done, but obviously didn't because that would've been stupid. So they designed the channel with broader appeal from the onset.

Even ignoring Space Ghost, you think 7 year olds would care about the insight into cartoon history that shows like Toon Heads and The Bob Clampett Show provided, or would be staying up at 1 a.m. to watch weird Canadian animation on O' Canada? There was a reason more than 1/3rd of CN's viewers pre-Adult Swim were 18 and older. That audience didn't come from nothing.

Then, sometime around 2003, when Adult Swim exploded in popularity, Cartoon Network began to gain more and more of a "generic kids network" aesthetic as opposed to being just a cartoon channel. Not to diss on Jim Samples and the City era, but I feel Cartoon Network lost a bit of that uniqueness after AS was reclassified as separate brand. It became as mentioned, "just another kids network" rather than a channel for animation fans.

 

[R Lopez]

Even ignoring Space Ghost, you think 7 year olds would care about the insight into cartoon history that shows like Toon Heads and The Bob Clampett Show provided, or would be staying up at 1 a.m. to watch weird Canadian animation on O' Canada? There was a reason more than 1/3rd of CN's viewers pre-Adult Swim were 18 and older. That audience didn't come from nothing.

You said everything I left out of my post. You're absolutely right that shows like "ToonHeads" also resulted in CN being unique amongst the kid networks. Toonami deserves a shoutout here too.

And yeah, Adult Swim was the network finally, after many years of putting it off, formally attracting people outside their target demos...

But I wish CN had kept some of that spirit for itself. I wonder how different CN's history since 2003 would be if it had done that.

 

[TheMisterManGuy]

You said everything I left out of my post. You're absolutely right that shows like "ToonHeads" also resulted in CN being unique amongst the kid networks. Toonami deserves a shoutout here too.

And yeah, Adult Swim was the network finally, after many years of putting it off, formally attracting people outside their target demos...

But I wish CN had kept some of that spirit for itself. I wonder how different CN's history since 2003 would be if it had done that.

Networks shift their demographics around all the time as a result of management shake-ups, changing markets, or other channels owned by the parent company filling a niche.

* Nickelodeon began as a channel for kids 2 to 14, but overtime became more narrowed down to kids 2 to 11.

* Disney Channel started as a channel for families, then a channel for kids and their families with a focus on preteens and teens, to a channel aimed at "tweens".

* MTV was for 12 to 34 year old music fans, but eventually became a trashy reality show network for young women.

* Freeform began as a christian network for adults. Now its also a network for young women.

Cartoon Network is the same way, starting out as an animation channel for kids and adults, to a network that for years, focused on boys 6-11 above all else. So it's not something unique to CN. But it did mean that cable channels in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s had more of a unique point and distinguishing features rather than just being lower budget broadcast networks that you have to pay for.

 

[Francisque]

More than history (e.g. See how Nick has fallen) , I think it has a lot to do with the fact cartoons cater a less wide audience than tween live action programmes and a mixture of everything.

And probably for a long part of its history, CN has catered a specific kind of audience too , more boys than girls, and definitely not preschoolers (it tried, but Cartoonito is the serious investment they have now).