Disney XD channel to be used by Marvel for character testing

[ryandcow]

I'm not really a big fan of TSSM's art style, and wouldn't really want to see Armored Adventures in that style. I prefer the more detailed cel-shaded look myself, but it's a bit hard to compare CG and 2D since they have their strengths and weaknesses (One thing I do like is the amount of detail they can put into rendering the models without it affecting animation. It's fun when you can read the fine print and serial numbers on the mechs during a fight.)

It does make the fight scenes look really detailed and cool, but I think it looks a little weird while they're out of costume, I like good old fashioned 2-d animation, but eh... that's just my opinion. Now that I think about it TSSM style wouldn't look too good on IM but I did really like the 90's version. I'd probably rather that over TSSM's style. Someone said about a Dr. Strange series, yes!, that would be sweet. I'd also like a Cap, The Punisher, and a TV-PG deadpool (so we can get his real feel)

 

[ShadowDemon]

It's always been like that. Unfortunately movie adaptations of comics barely effect sells of comics for the better.

That's becaue they make NO effort to cross promote. There should be comic book ads in front of EVERY comic book based movie.

The campaign theme of: "If you like the movie, you'll LOVE the comic book!" is a no-brainer...

 

[spyke]

As great as that would be, I think Disney is thinking along the line of C-list superheroes like Ant-Man.

Most of the characters on my list are C-list (and D-list) characters.

 

[spyke]

That's becaue they make NO effort to cross promote. There should be comic book ads in front of EVERY comic book based movie.

The campaign theme of: "If you like the movie, you'll LOVE the comic book!" is a no-brainer...

You can put a gazzilion ads in front of a comic book based movie and it won't help boost sales on comics since most comics are very hard to find because most comics (not all) are sold in comic shops (whose numbers are decreasing every year).

 

[ShadowDemon]

You can put a gazzilion ads in front of a comic book based movie and it won't help boost sales on comics since most comics are very hard to find because most comics (not all) are sold in comic shops (whose numbers are decreasing every year).

It would be a start.

And you could build from there by joint ads with the local shops, or plug a subscription service. For that matter, get the books back in the grocery stores and such and advertise the heck out of THAT angle.

 

[Rick Jones]

You can put a gazzilion ads in front of a comic book based movie and it won't help boost sales on comics since most comics are very hard to find because most comics (not all) are sold in comic shops (whose numbers are decreasing every year).

The Direct Market is really a tough one for us fans to work around sometimes.

 

[Dudley]

It would be a start.

And you could build from there by joint ads with the local shops, or plug a subscription service. For that matter, get the books back in the grocery stores and such and advertise the heck out of THAT angle.

That.
I actually suggested the same thing in art college.

We need to get comics back in places that people will want to buy them. The Average Joe may not buy comics, but he definitely wouldn't step foot into a comic store.

Of course, it doesn't help that mainstream comics are filled with backstories spanning decades, with canon crossovers that clog up the storyline making it difficult for newcomers to get into it.

 

[ryandcow]

Does anyone else think they'd get tired of a marvel overload
on DXD? I'd want some diversity in there.

 

[Gokou Ruri]

You can put a gazzilion ads in front of a comic book based movie and it won't help boost sales on comics since most comics are very hard to find because most comics (not all) are sold in comic shops (whose numbers are decreasing every year).

The ability to find them is a big part of it, but I think it's because most of the time the comics tend to be really different than the movies, or as Dudley mentioned, in the middle of some huge crossover event (Marvel is especially guilty of this). Which is why sales may go up a bit before and after the movie, but quickly drop off. For example, if you watch the Iron Man movie then pick up the comic, you'd have to deal with the Civil War aftermath of Tony betraying everyone and Dark Reign and going on the run and everything. People looking to just pick up and watch him fight some villains and do daily life will probably be disappointed. I'm not sure what was going on when the Hulk movie came out (Planet Hulk? World War Hulk? I don't recall when those happened) but it's similar for most comic book movies. Though most of the time they try to reset status quo by the time the new movie comes out (I'm betting Tony will get better by the time Iron Man 2 comes out)

Cartoons would help snag a younger audience and possibly help get kids into comics, though some changes would probably be necessary depending on the heroes and even then, people picking up a Spider-Man comic after watching TSSM might be disappointed at how different it is. I think it's nigh impossible to cross-promote between comic and movies/television when it comes to comic books unless they start doing strict, straight adaptions of comic storylines (not that I'm saying they should do it; I don't mind cartoons doing their own thing)

 

[W.C.Reaf]

The thing is though that the movies and cartoons are starting at the beginning of the story while the comics are in the middle of it. Jumping from one to the other is always hard.

If they tried to actually keep the status quo for the movies then it would be even worse. The fans, the actual ones picking up the books between films, would most likely stop buying them for long periods because nothing would be happening or "oh look a new movies coming out better stop buying 'cause they'll be resetting stuff soon". It would alienate any buyers they pick up off the back of the movie when the next one comes back as they'd be going "isn't this where I can in?"

It's not just currently either. If the Iron Man movie came out in the 80s people who picked up the comic would go, "why's he an alcoholic? What's this Armour Wars stuff?" or the 90s, "wait the world thinks he's dead? But he's really on another Earth?"

The first Iron Man film came out during the Civil War aftermath and fans of the comic were going "oh they're going to put Tony back 'cause the movie's coming out and Marvel wants new readers." And Marvel didn't reset Tony back because of the film and I doubt they'll do anything really drastic with the characters just because there's a movie coming out. There might be some attention grabbing thing that ties in slightly with the films (no doubt War Machine will be doing something with Iron Man in the comics when the movie comes out).

The biggest sellers are probably the trade paperbacks in the book stores as they're readily available to the general public without them having to find a comic store. That's why DC and Marvel reprint big sellers when a new movie comes around.

 

[Ed Liu]

We need to get comics back in places that people will want to buy them. The Average Joe may not buy comics, but he definitely wouldn't step foot into a comic store.

There are a few problems with the simple argument that all the comic companies have to do to get comics readership up is get comics back into grocery stores. The first is that they already are. Take a look over in your local Target (and, I believe) Wal-Mart, but in the kids book section, not in the magazine section. Target has been selling Marvel reprint editions there for a few years now, of both the Marvel Adventures comics but also for things like Runaways and other titles that are suitable for a pre-teen to teen audience.

The bookstore market has also become more important to everyone. Manga never had any significant presence in grocery stores, drug stores, or even comic book shops, but that never hurt its explosive growth earlier in the decade. The development of the manga market came about entirely because of bookstores, not because of magazine stands, which kind of nixes the idea that magazine stand distribution will somehow save American comics. Graphic novels are one of the only growth sectors in American publishing these days.

Finally, the assumption is that the comic book companies gave up the magazine market in favor of the direct market/comic book shop distribution, but this assumption isn't correct. As I understand it, magazine distributors and retailers were more than happy to dump comics in favor of magazines. If you think about it, running a magazine stand is essentially an inventory management problem, where you have more material than you have shelf space and your inventory will go stale within a day, a week, or a month. The same space dedicated to selling a 35-40 cent comic book (back in the 70's when the direct market was starting) would be much better spent selling a monthly magazine for $2-3. If not for the direct market, comics publishing probably would have died back then (see Marvel's Tom Breevoort discussing this starting with this blog entry).

Of course, it doesn't help that mainstream comics are filled with backstories spanning decades, with canon crossovers that clog up the storyline making it difficult for newcomers to get into it.

Naruto is up to, what, volume 25? 30? Big continuity doesn't seem to be hurting it any. The fact that volumes 1-30 are all still in print helps, but with all the reboots over time, there are lots and lots of places for someone interested in American comics to start.

In any event, the real money isn't in publishing, but in licensing, which is what companies like Marvel and Disney are concerned about. Marvel hasn't made much more than a third of its annual profits from publishing for quite some time. Given that, using Disney XD as a testing ground for new titles seems like a foregone conclusion.

 

[spyke]

Finally, the assumption is that the comic book companies gave up the magazine market in favor of the direct market/comic book shop distribution, but this assumption isn't correct. As I understand it, magazine distributors and retailers were more than happy to dump comics in favor of magazines. If you think about it, running a magazine stand is essentially an inventory management problem, where you have more material than you have shelf space and your inventory will go stale within a day, a week, or a month. The same space dedicated to selling a 35-40 cent comic book (back in the 70's when the direct market was starting) would be much better spent selling a monthly magazine for $2-3. If not for the direct market, comics publishing probably would have died back then (see Marvel's Tom Breevoort discussing this starting with this blog entry).

You're wrong. The Big 2 (Marvel and DC) gave up the on the newstands and other venues in favor of the Direct Market because unsold copies of books ordered by comic shops are not returnable.

 

[Ed Liu]

You're wrong. The Big 2 (Marvel and DC) gave up the on the newstands and other venues in favor of the Direct Market because unsold copies of books ordered by comic shops are not returnable.

From the Tom Breevoort blog entry that I linked to:

This is why the Direct Market was such a savior to the comic book industry. By the late '70s, with the number of retail outlets carrying comics shrinking (as they didn't generate as much profit-per-square-foot as, say, a Pac Man machine) and the returns on the comics that were getting to market dwindling as returns mounted, it looked as though the entire field could collapse. But there were certain back issue dealers--most notably Phil Seuling, who was the first to broker an arrangement with the big two companies--who wanted to sell new books to their customers as well, and who were willing to buy their copies on a non-returnable basis. This was a godsend, in that, if the Direct Market ordered 40,000 copies, you only had to print maybe 40,500 to account for damages and contingencies--and every single copy was a sure sell.

Note his timeline. There's also this blog entry by Mark Evanier:

Around 1970, when I got into the comic book business, the consensus was that there wouldn't be a comic book business for long...and not because of me. The traditional method of distribution — comics sold on a returnable basis to newsstands around the country — was failing, or at least it was failing comic books. The biggest distributor, Independent News, was making large sums off more expensive, adult publications like Playboy and Penthouse, and some there suggested that newsracks were no longer a place for kids or low-priced periodicals. Since comic books were low-priced and largely for kids, this was a pretty ominous suggestion, especially when you considered that Independent News not only distributed DC Comics but was a part of the same company. In other words, DC's wares were being sold by an outfit that no longer believed there was a future in selling comic books. With that attitude, there couldn't be much of one.

If I'm wrong, then so are Tom Brevoort and Mark Evanier, as well as Chuck Rozanski of Mile High Comics and Ed Shukin who ran Marvel circulation in the 1970's.

 

[ShadowDemon]

Of course, it doesn't help that mainstream comics are filled with backstories spanning decades, with canon crossovers that clog up the storyline making it difficult for newcomers to get into it.

They always handled it quite nicely with the continuity editors before Jemas and his "continuity is for NeRdz" attitude.

 

[spyke]

From the Tom Breevoort blog entry that I linked to:


Note his timeline. There's also this blog entry by Mark Evanier:


If I'm wrong, then so are Tom Brevoort and Mark Evanier, as well as Chuck Rozanski of Mile High Comics and Ed Shukin who ran Marvel circulation in the 1970's.

And yet, comics sold much better when they were being sold on newstands back in the day, then they are currently being sold in the Direct Market.

 

[Ed Liu]

And yet, comics sold much better when they were being sold on newstands back in the day, then they are currently being sold in the Direct Market.

Brevoort deals with that too in his blog post. Newsstand distribution numbers were incredibly inflated for a variety of reasons. It also doesn't matter because the fact is that newsstands were dropping comics in favor of more expensive periodicals. If you don't have distribution, you don't sell product no matter how popular it is.

Really, you should read Breevoort's blog post and the ones that follow, or any of the 3 others that I linked to, if you want to understand why the direct market was created in the first place. The direct market has its own brand of statistical distortions, and I don't deny that readership of American superhero comics has gone down, but the usual arguments that comic sales will be better if they just go back to newsstands are not supported by reality.

 

[spyke]

Brevoort deals with that too in his blog post. Newsstand distribution numbers were incredibly inflated for a variety of reasons. It also doesn't matter because the fact is that newsstands were dropping comics in favor of more expensive periodicals. If you don't have distribution, you don't sell product no matter how popular it is.

Really, you should read Breevoort's blog post and the ones that follow, or any of the 3 others that I linked to, if you want to understand why the direct market was created in the first place. The direct market has its own brand of statistical distortions, and I don't deny that readership of American superhero comics has gone down, but the usual arguments that comic sales will be better if they just go back to newsstands are not supported by reality.

I read Brevoort's blog, and I still think that comic sales would be better off if comics were sold on both the newstands and in the direct market. It was a mistake for the industry to completely abandon/give up on the much larger newstand/drug store/grocery store market (although they have been trying to reenter that market more recently with the MARVEL ADVENTURE books) in favor of the much smaller (and shrinking) direct market. The newstand market for comics was indeed dwindling, but the newstands didn't decide to not sell comics completely, it was the Big 2 themselves that made the decision to completely abandon the newstand market in favor of the DM.