"Gargoyles: Bad Guys" #1 - 6 Mini-Series Talkback (Spoilers)

[DisneyBoy]

Greg Guler did that cover, I believe.

Greg Gruler is then, The Man.

 

[GregX]

Okay, now, both the second "Gargoyles" TPB and the "Bad Guys" TPB are in stores. Three TPBs total... if these sell well, we might get more in the future.

In the mean time, I'll begin with a review of #5

"Gargoyles, Bad Guys: Redemption. #5: Strangled"

Spoiler

This issue is told somewhat non-linearly, but no where near to the extent as the recent Stone of Destiny story in "Gargoyles."

Parts of this center around Dingo's past. We see Dingo/Harry Monmouth as a small child rush home only to be told by his surrogate father figure, John Oldcastle, that his mother, Mariah, has run off again. Mariah is apparently a bit of a free-spirit... and this was the 1970s. Young Harry seems hardly surprised, as Mariah has done this before. But John promises to take care of him. And, for the next decade or so of his life, John... a professional thief and criminal trains Harry and the two of them pull off a series of heists.

In the present day (hee hee, 1997), Hunter informs the now full squad of Dingo, Matrix, Yama, and Fang, that their next target is an Illuminati stronghold on an island. So now, it all comes together. This is the island that we've been seeing this squad battle those giant robots.

The squad destroys the robots and enters the stronghold, where they discover a gigantic Illuminati banner, and they are ambushed by a bunch of freaky villains in Renaissance get-up. Dingo immediately recognizes one of them as someone he worked with when he was younger and pulling jobs with John Oldcastle, and knows who they're up against.

Enter John Oldcastle, who now calls himself Falstaff. And like the Falstaff of William Shakespeare's "Henry IV," Falstaff is a rather large individual who loves to eat and drink. He also refers to himself as the "King of Thieves." The Shakespeare character was a thief as well. Gotta hand it to Greg, if he can reference the Immortal Bard, he will. Shakespeare is always a wonderful thing to include, and like the series, you don't need to be fluent in it to enjoy it.

And while I'm on the point, there was a historical John Oldcastle. He was arrested for heresy, escaped from the Tower of London, and plotted to capture King Henry V (they used to be friends) and his family. He was eventually executed... hanged and burned. They say Shakespeare based his Falstaff off of John Oldcastle. Which makes Weisman's choice in the name very appropriate.

Falstaff greets Dingo with a big manly hug... and then we cut back to our flashback to Dingo's youth, when he returned home to discover his mom had taken off again. Only, she didn't take off... John Oldcastle strangled her to death in their bedroom.

I liked this issue. Everything seems to be coming together, and the story has caught up with itself. I also think that final page outlines the advantages of the comic book medium. "Gargoyles" on TV got away with a lot, but S&P would hardly allow any cartoon series to depict a man with his hands around the throat of a dead woman (and make no mistake, she is already dead in that shot) in their bedroom.

To be concluded...

My review for #6 will come... as soon as I can. Maybe later tonight.

 

[GregX]

"Gargoyles, Bad Guys: Redemption. #6: Losers"

Spoiler

We pick up where we left off, but, at last we meet the mystery man who is behind the Redemption Squad. A man obscured in shadow called 'the Director.' We don't see much of him, but he works for an organization which, I suspect, is trying to bring down the Illuminati.

Anyway, Falstaff introduces his band of freaks. Pistol (a gun fighter); Points (swordsman); Bardolph (He breathes fire); Mistress Doll (a contortionist); and Mistress Quickly.

Falstaff then invites the Redemption Squad to dinner. Dingo is asking Falstaff the questions; Hunter is sitting there fuming in silence; Yama is listening; Matrix is absorbing metal; and Fang is stuffing his face.

Falstaff decides that the Redemption Squad would make a great asset, and on behalf of the Illuminati, he offers them membership. Besides, the Illuminati is only trying to save the world. Which I am sure is true... from their point of view. And he can prove it.

Hunter is given a chance to speak with her great-aunt, Fiona Canmore. This made me bug out a little, because a year or so ago, I asked myself "if Fiona Canmore is supposed to still be alive in 1997, when she was hunting Demona in 1920... what if she was an Illuminatus and had access to their rejuvenation drugs?" But I never expected to see it in the canon. Gargoyles Fans Collective Conscious strikes again!

Across the room, Yama and Fang are connected to... Goliath. Except the coloring is off, and Yama asks for someone to fix the color. Whoops, it's not Goliath it's... Thailog. He asks Fang to vouch for him. Which Fang obliges.

Meanwhile, Dingo cannot believe that Falstaff got out of the life... but, what better job is there for the world's greatest thief than to guard the world's biggest treasury. The island: Eastcheap Isle is the Illuminati's treasury. And we see a room that would make Scrooge McDuck green with envy.

So, the Redemption Squad are left to confer. Join the Illuminati or not. But Yama knows the Illuminati cannot be trusted. And why? Because Fang vouched for Thailog and Fang knows the rest of the squad doesn't trust him. Really sneaky Fang.

So, we have a nice fight between the squad, and Falstaff's gang of freaks. But when the Redemption Squad gains the upper hand, Falstaff sinks the island... which is actually a ship. The Redemption Squad manage to escape... having lost this round.

Now, some might find it a bummer that the Redemption Squad didn't really achieve a victory here... beyond capturing Mistress Quickly. Falstaff and the rest of his crew escape, with the treasury.

But, Yama sums up what this was really all about. The never ending struggle for redemption. But Fang is just happy to have survived. He's not interested in redemption... maybe one day, but not yet.

Overall, a fun introduction to what I am sure would have been a great series. Greg's writing is as sharp as ever. But I have to say that I've always admired Karine Charlebois' art. I've watched her grow as an artist since 1997. But, with these comics, you can see her getting progressively better with each issue. She's great.

I know that if we get a license renewal and we get more spin-offs, Greg is planning a Dark Ages story, then a Pendragon story, then a TimeDancer story. But, I'll be honest. This really whetted by appetite. I want to see more of these characters and this team.

 

[Ian]

So I finally got the TPB as a Christmas gift. Although I'm kind of disappointed that some of the subplots introduced here weren't resolved, and very disappointed at having to pay for the same four issues twice, I thought the story concluded on a very high note.

Random Thoughts:

• Given Sevarius' prominence in issues 2-4, I was very surprised to see that he wasn't involved at all in the final two issues, particularly since I was expecting to find out what his greater goal is.
• On a similar note, I had hoped that we’d get an explanation for Dingo’s two déjà vu moments in issue 4. While the circumstances surrounding both instances make the reason seemingly obvious—they both occurred right after he/Matrix was shocked by Fang, which is nothing if not suggestive—I wish we’d gotten some more development on that front.
• Something new: humans with superpowers (if we don’t count magic as superpowers). From what little we saw of them, I liked Falstaff’s Quirky Miniboss Squad—they’ve got nice designs (except for maybe Mistress Doll—I don’t see how the stripperiffic outfit helps the theme), and an interesting set of abilities. Now I want to see more of them.
• The Illuminati is “trying to take over the world”? “Trying”? Interesting—given that everything we’d heard about them so far suggested that they already did, it’s interesting to hear Robyn describe the group in that particular manner. Is the previous information wrong, or is Robyn?
• Okay, I’m really not sure what Weisman was trying to accomplish by having the Director’s face be framed in shadow, while still being visible enough to make certain that it’s (most likely) no one we know. While the technique can work in certain styles of work, I’m not quite sure it does here.
• Dolores…Dolores…wasn’t one of the teen heroes in that news article Broadway was reading in “High Noon” called Dolores?

 

[Goodfellow]

Okay, now, both the second "Gargoyles" TPB and the "Bad Guys" TPB are in stores. Three TPBs total... if these sell well, we might get more in the future.

Really? Where are they sold at? I have never seen them in a single store, let alone advertised. When did they come out?

 

[AlgeaX]

Really? Where are they sold at? I have never seen them in a single store, let alone advertised. When did they come out?

They've been out since august, you should be able to pick them up online...

Gargoyles: Clan Building Volume 2

Gargoyles: Bad Guys

 

[John Pannozzi]

When does this take place in the relation to the rest of the Gargoyles animated/comic series? I just ordered Gargoyles S2P2 off of eBay and want to do a marathon of Gargoyles in the future.

 

[W.C.Reaf]

It's after the cartoon. I can't remember if there's anything specific in this that sets it during or after Clan Building.

 

[John Pannozzi]

^ Well, I'm going by the timeline on GargWiki, Bad Guys #1 happens after Gargoyles #7, but I don't see Gargoyles #8 or the present day parts of Gargoyles #9 on the timeline. Also, it says that Gargoyles #10-12 happen after Bad Guys #6.