Marvel's Spider-Man "Between an Ock and a Hard Place" Talkback (Spoilers)

[RoyalRubble]

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Marvel's Spider-Man "Between an Ock and a Hard Place"
Episode Debut - June 25th, 2018

Spider-Man discovers there is a new Doctor Octopus taking up the mantle from Otto Octavius and finds himself drawn into this new mystery, missing the danger right under his nose.

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[ShadowBeast]

Doc Ock gets his own Harley Quinn and throws her away all in one episode. I had a feeling that Octavious was behind the Wild Pack's attacks. Kind of hoping it wasn't true since it felt too predictable. Lady Octopus was an interesting character. I wonder if she'll try her luck in being a superhero now that supervillainy didn't work out. It would be hilarious if she tried dressing up as Spider Man. One thing I didn't expect was Doc Ock's plan happening so soon and it being thwarted by the third episode of the season. Seems like Doc Ock won't be a problem for quite a while as well.

 

[Frontier]

People calling Spider-Man a menace makes so much more sense now that the Bugle is actively carrying out a smear campaign against him. It was always weird when people would just randomly call him that out-of-nowhere in season 1 despite the fact that it seemed like the people of New York all loved him. Even Peter acknowledges people used to praise him all the time, but now the Bugle has started turning things around .

And it's not even like Jameson's criticisms against Spider-Man are inaccurate considering how much property damage happens during his fights (often to Bugle property) and how much he just makes it up as he goes along. He also is the odd duck out of the Superhero community since no one knows who he really is, which makes him less accountable then The Avengers .

I liked that Jonah's office had a picture of John in it. I was wondering if they would ever address the familial connection between the two, so that was a nice and subtle acknowledgement of their relationship .

We also have the classic Bugle dynamic of Peter desperately needing money, forcing him into a job where he has to sell material of himself that's going to be used against him. The classic status quo has finally returned .

I loved Lady Octopus. I mean, Carolyn Trainer is a fairly obscure character unless you're knowledgeable about 90's Spider-Man comics, but I thought the show did a great job of adapting her here. Her fangirling over Otto, her enthusiasm, her zaniness, her love for her Octobots, and the fact that she didn't seem to have any real idea about what the heck she was doing was all really entertaining and fun. And Kari Wahlgren seemed to be having a blast playing her .

Otto really dropped the ball with Carolyn here. I mean, she's cute, crazy, and completely obsessed with him. What's not to love? And it's not every girl who will hack themselves into prison just to meet their idol. Heck, you'd think Otto would welcome working with someone who would continually inflate his ego the more they worked together. I guess he doesn't know enough about people to understand the fury of a woman scorned .

I am curious what's next for Carolyn. I assume she was arrested at the end by the police, and Spidey seemed keen on the idea of her turning her life around and making a genuine second chance. She let go of her tentacle harness, implying she was completely done with her emulation of Doc Ock, so it could be interesting to see what she does next. I would be happy to see her again, though I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up another one episode wonder like Screwball .

Poor Miles. Three episodes straight and he hasn't suited up once, despite the fact that they kept talking about him and Peter working together .

Doc Ock not really being reformed and being behind everything was probably the least surprising twist on this show yet, though I am kind of surprised that they revealed it so quickly. I guess I can't fault the show for not beating around the bush, but I feel like the show could have spent more time showcasing the "new" Otto before revealing that he was still the same old Doctor Octopus. It's like if they had revealed Otto was the Master Planner the very episode after they had introduced the Master Planner .

You got to love how Otto deliberately disrespecting Peter's intelligence by not making him a head of the Neuro Cortex team ended up inadvertently saving Peter and ruining Otto's plan .

Has Spidey ever beaten Doc Ock on his own on this show? I think that might be a first for a Spider-Man cartoon .

I'm guessing Peter and Brock competing for top spot at the Bugle is going to end up developing Brocks' enmity for Peter up until he becomes Venom (just like it did in the 90's show) .

I kind of wanted to see Gwen react more to what Doc Ock did, since she was the one who was really pushing for everyone to give him a second chance. And we all saw how that turned out .

One of the benefits to Harry being away is that we can actually see Peter interact more with the Horizon High kids and cement that bond, which is especially important if they're going to end up all working together as Spider-Heroes .

Considering Otto's tentacle was still active at the end, who wants to bet he transferred his consciousness into the tentacle and that's how he ends up switching brains with Peter ?

 

[Fone Bone]

Marvel's Spider-Man "Between An Ock And A Hard Place"

After seeing this garbage, I'm pretty much glad all the Marvel cartoons were canceled. The current Marvel cartoons' idea of a good twist is having an irredeemable villain from the comics pretend to reform for a few episodes, and then believe they are actually pulling the wool over the audience's eyes when it turns out they were faking. I could excuse writing this bad 20 years ago. Now it's just painful and unacceptable. Seriously unimpressed with this show and all of the Marvel cartoons.

The animated part of this franchise is long overdue for a reboot. All of the shows suck, and I won't be sad to see any of them go.

Loser of an episode. *.

P.S. Max Modell is still the d-bag of the year for not offering Peter a freaking scholarship. I mean if you have to get the board of the school involved whenever a single student is late on their dues, your business model probably sucks.

 

[Frontier]

After seeing this garbage, I'm pretty much glad all the Marvel cartoons were canceled. The current Marvel cartoons' idea of a good twist is having an irredeemable villain from the comics pretend to reform for a few episodes, and then believe they are actually pulling the wool over the audience's eyes when it turns out they were faking. I could excuse writing this bad 20 years ago. Now it's just painful and unacceptable. Seriously unimpressed with this show and all of the Marvel cartoons.

I mean, it wasn't that much of a twist, which might have been part of why they didn't drag it out, so I don't think it was too much of an issue here since they didn't really dwell on it.

And I thought the episode was still strong overall, so I didn't mind that much .

The animated part of this franchise is long overdue for a reboot. All of the shows suck, and I won't be sad to see any of them go.

I think Guardians is still pretty good, and this show has kind of really grown on me, even if I do still have my issues with it.

P.S. Max Modell is still the d-bag of the year for not offering Peter a freaking scholarship. I mean if you have to get the board of the school involved whenever a single student is late on their dues, your business model probably sucks.

No wonder students and faculty keep turning into Supervillains .

 

[Matt Parker]

I liked it. I'm actually really glad that we revealed Doc Ock was still a villain early on, because everyone saw that plot twist coming and stretching it out would have been a waste of time. Scott Menville has really grown on me as Otto. Sure, his performance is kinda (intentionally or otherwise) an impression of Peter MacNicol's portrayal, but it's a good impression, and I enjoyed his character. That being said, the decision to have Otto pretend to have found redemption was strange and probably flawed in the first place.

The best parts of the episode were the bits with Jameson. Bob Joles is instantly one of the best Jonah's we've ever gotten, and I love seeing the incorporation of the Bugle. However, the city's instantly turning on Spider-Man feels a little forced and I would have liked more of an impetus for that (maybe Peter actually messes up and causes some major property damage), but the classic dilema of Peter being forced to sell Spider-Man footage to the Bugle to pay tuition was well handled.

Once again, we have no clue what to do with Miles. He hasn't even suited up yet this season, has he? The more the show progresses, the more I feel that his early inclusion was a studio mandate forced on the creative team.

My main question now is what will the next few episodes consist of? Otto was sold as the main villain, and he's already in a coma (yes, it won't last, because we'll get Superior Spider-Man down the line, but I feel like he'll be off the table for the next 10 or so episodes). Will we see the return of Jackal or Osborn? It'll be interesting for sure.

 

[Fone Bone]

No wonder students and faculty keep turning into Supervillains .

What really bothers me is this is the precise business model the show was saying Norman Osborn sucks for in season 1 for Osborn Academy. I don't see any real difference in how they run things other than the fact that Modell smiles more as he picks your pocket and sets you against your friends.

 

[Frontier]

I liked it. I'm actually really glad that we revealed Doc Ock was still a villain early on, because everyone saw that plot twist coming and stretching it out would have been a waste of time. Scott Menville has really grown on me as Otto. Sure, his performance is kinda (intentionally or otherwise) an impression of Peter MacNicol's portrayal, but it's a good impression, and I enjoyed his character. That being said, the decision to have Otto pretend to have found redemption was strange and probably flawed in the first place.

I don't think it's intentional, because Menville didn't even know he was auditioning for Doc Ock to begin with, but I think they're at least similar in so much as they're Doctor Octopuses can be extremely hammy (though Doc Ock has always been a hammy villain) .

I do feel like, if they were going to try and spin that Otto was reformed, they could have gone about developing it better. But I guess we did get Carolyn out of it, so that's a plus .

The best parts of the episode were the bits with Jameson. Bob Joles is instantly one of the best Jonah's we've ever gotten, and I love seeing the incorporation of the Bugle. However, the city's instantly turning on Spider-Man feels a little forced and I would have liked more of an impetus for that (maybe Peter actually messes up and causes some major property damage), but the classic dilema of Peter being forced to sell Spider-Man footage to the Bugle to pay tuition was well handled.

It does feel a little forced after seeing how much everyone but Harry Osborn loved Spider-Man in season 1. I was thinking they would use the fact that Spider-Man was brainwashed into joining the Sinister Six to turn the public against them, but Jonah hasn't even touched on that .

Once again, we have no clue what to do with Miles. He hasn't even suited up yet this season, has he? The more the show progresses, the more I feel that his early inclusion was a studio mandate forced on the creative team.

I wonder if Miles, Gwen, and Anya were all mandated to be on the show to some degree, to promote other Spider-Characters ?

Considering this show can barely manage to use Miles well, I'm really not sure how this show will be able to manage four Spider-Characters on one show...

My main question now is what will the next few episodes consist of? Otto was sold as the main villain, and he's already in a coma (yes, it won't last, because we'll get Superior Spider-Man down the line, but I feel like he'll be off the table for the next 10 or so episodes). Will we see the return of Jackal or Osborn? It'll be interesting for sure.

I'm guessing we'll get more build-up to Eddie becoming Venom. Assuming he ever gets to have a word in edge-wise .

 

[SweetShop209]

1. Well, it's theory time. First of all, I thank many others, notably @Frontier , for helping me come up with this theory. Anyway, the Doc Ock twist coming this early doesn't surprise me considering that Elena Of Avalor did a similar twist of Carla and Victor being exposed two episodes after "A Spy In The Palace" , and I was fine with that also. Anyway, the theory that was mentioned is Doc Ock slowly piecing together that Peter is Spiderman, and I do think this episode at least implies that this is the case. He was able to connect to the Neuro Cortex, and momentarily gained telekinetic powers, which could've helped in him finding out that Peter and Spiderman are one and the same. Also of note is how he used Gwen, Anya, and Miles as team leaders, and only them, hinting that he knows that they're special due to connection. Maybe when the Superior Spiderman story comes about, he'll use that, and possibly something else, as leverage against him.

2. Carolyn Trainer reminds me of Cupid from those DC Nation Green Arrow shorts (with Kari Wahlgren also voicing her) due to the possessive love she has for someone important. The key difference is that Cupid was played for dark comedy while Carolyn is more straightforward and tragic, and said love was for a hero and villain respectively. Anyway, I like Carolyn here, not only due to how straight up nuts she is, but also for her tragic side. I see more potential for her.

 

[Frontier]

1. Well, it's theory time. First of all, I thank many others, notably @Frontier , for helping me come up with this theory. Anyway, the Doc Ock twist coming this early doesn't surprise me considering that Elena Of Avalor did a similar twist of Carla and Victor being exposed two episodes after "A Spy In The Palace" , and I was fine with that also. Anyway, the theory that was mentioned is Doc Ock slowly piecing together that Peter is Spiderman, and I do think this episode at least implies that this is the case. He was able to connect to the Neuro Cortex, and momentarily gained telekinetic powers, which could've helped in him finding out that Peter and Spiderman are one and the same. Also of note is how he used Gwen, Anya, and Miles as team leaders, and only them, hinting that he knows that they're special due to connection. Maybe when the Superior Spiderman story comes about, he'll use that, and possibly something else, as leverage against him.

I think Otto went with Gwen, Anya, and Miles because he thought they were the smartest kids in his class, and he didn't go with Peter because he still underestimated him/didn't like him, which ended up inadvertently screwing up his plans.

If Otto had any indication that Peter was Spider-Man, I think he would've hinted at it in a more obvious fashion. I don't think he'll figure out Peter's identity until we get the mind swap.

 

[ShadowBeast]

It does feel a little forced after seeing how much everyone but Harry Osborn loved Spider-Man in season 1. I was thinking they would use the fact that Spider-Man was brainwashed into joining the Sinister Six to turn the public against them, but Jonah hasn't even touched on that .

Actually there was a hint of people thinking of Spider Man as menace even in the first season. With everyone loving Spider-Gwen and saying that she's a hero, but when Peter asked about Spider Man, one guy simply stated "menace". So I think there are some people who did think of Spider Man as a menace earlier, but there just wasn't much of any focus on it until now with Jameson making it worse for Spider man.
The only reasons I can think of as for why Jameson hasn't used the time Peter was mind controlled against him was either because it's old news and wants to focus more on current Spider Man menacing, or the writers intend to have him bring it up later on during the season.

 

[Dudley]

I’m surprised Ock revealed his true intentions so quickly. I thought they would’ve stretched this story arc a bit longer.


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[Gold Guy]

I'm mixed on this episode.

Carolyn Trainer was an amusing villain. I'm not very familiar with her from the comics, but it seems like a fine adaption. That was the best part of the episode.

But Doc Ock's betrayal (and weird psychic powers) was kinda....a flop. Yeah, it's probably for the best they didn't drag it out, but it would have been more impressive if he actually went legit.

Still awkward how Eddie Brock never speaks.