"Marvel's What If...?" Season Two Talkback (Spoilers)

[Fone Bone]

What If...? "What If... Iron Man Crashed Into The Grandmaster?"

That was dumb. Once Tony turns his armor into a racecar I'm like, "Enough already." It's not like Thor Ragnarok wasn't already too silly. This was just nonsense.

I usually give longer reviews than that, but that would suggest this lame episode made a bigger impression than it did. It's just stupid. *1/2.

What If...? "What If... Captain Carter Fought The Hydra Stomper?"

That was pretty great. The ending was fun and unexpected, and tells me we are getting a sequel to this sequel.

The fight scenes at the end were terrific. I enjoyed the mood lighting very much.

Neat way to resurrect the Steve and Peggy romance in the alternate Universe.

I don't remember OUR Melina being quite so sinister.

Those killer robots gave me the willies.

The show has value because though it's set in an alternate universe, and they could easily have shown Steve killing Bucky with no negative repercussions, the show declines to do that because that's damn mean, and would upset everybody. The comic could learn a few things from this cartoon.

Great episode. The ending changes the show's name to "What The...?" ****.

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

"What If Captain Carter Fought The Hydra Stomper" -Like how last episode find a cheeky way to do the "this is a story that we should have given you awhile back" I appreciate this one is saying "yeah I know if we are doing various different variations going back to one feels kind of cheap but I like this reality" since I guess Captain Carter is this series flagship character and they want to use her as much as possible. I don't have a problem with that really as honestly in terms of quibbles I really only have two minor ones. First off, they make Natasha a lot more quippier and snarkier here then in the regular MCU. Like Nat was certainly not always silent and usually I'm fine with character changes since these are different universe plus you know Lake Bell is great as those dry sardonic reads, but it does feel like it's stepping on too many of the even more serious moments. Like the reveal of Melina leading this variation of the Red Room and her still being Nat's adoptive mom... feels like Nat really should at least be taking that more serious and not laying the quips on so thickly. The second point is the regular ending. I don't have a problem with "turns out Captain Carter is going to be a part of this longer arc that involves a universe with Wanda Merlin pulling in maybe other Guardians of the Multiverse" (though man I wish I hadn't read the synopsis of later episodes honestly that was on me especially as I'm now avoiding looking at the credits of who voices in the episode to avoid those kind of spoilers) but they had an actually really good ending with Peggy actually admitting she's just tired of the constant fighting and just wants to be with Steve and him managing to get through the brainwashing one last time to take out the Red Room but... apparently he's STILL alive and she's going to be fighting for him again? Yeah yeah this is the Bucky Barnes arc in the movies with this being the Captain America Winder Soldier part of the story; Carter finds out the one closest to her is still around but under enemy control and even when freed are still out there somewhere so guess in season 3 we're going to get "What If Captain Carter was in Civil War" or something like that, but that worked more in the movies cause that was only a PART of Steve's story. Resucing his best friend was also mixed with him realizing how corrupt governments can fall and who to really trust so it more layers. Again this can't really do that and has to focus more on the individual aspect so really wouldn't it work more if this ended with Carter down knowing Steve died unsure of what to do and was THEN taken by Wanda Merlin to another world?

That said I felt the rest of this episode was really great. Honestly I really do dig the connection that Peggy and Natasha have here. Like Steve and Natasha worked well together in the movies but I think due to Peggy being a bit more cynical and forward there's like a better sense of comradery like the two punching Loki at the same time and Natasha annoyed that Carter doesn't know anything about Robocop but can quote Star Wars as apparently that's the films she's been watching. And as stated before I do love the mixing of these various different worlds. This time it's taking The Winter Soldier brainwashing concept and mixing it with the Red Room of Black Widow and having Melina be the main villain. And cool they got Rachel Weisz back to play here who I guess Melina should also be a little bit less chatty but I at least dug her motivation of wanting Captain Carter to use and experiment on as yeah the whole point of Red Guardian in the BW movie was the Russians wanting their Captain America so obviously in this world they would want their own Captain Carter and would want it a lot more literal. I really also dug the fights in this one as well. The take on the Avengers climax was fine but the clashes with the Hydra Stomper were great. The first one on the ship was okay but once it was in the building with Peggy knocking him down several floors and Natasha shooting at it in the air and then Carter managing to have a high flying battle and knock him out was great. Same with the ending battle against all the various widows (like heh yeah the actual fighting here was done better then the actual Black Widow movie since guess it's a lot easier to animate that kind of action) and then Nat vs Melina while Peg had to fight Hydra Stomper again. And you know I was complaining in the last episode how it felt off for Tony to constantly try switching Gamora since they don't have a connection. It works here though because you know Peggy and Steve and heck even Steve and Bucky (I do like seeing Old Man Bucky and an actually GOOD Crossbones... he might have also been good in "What If Thor Was An Only Child" but this one you can really tell is the case) do have that connection and having an actual more quite moment for Peggy and Steve to talk about the world and how Steve kept trying to fight on not wanting to move on to someone else is nice because it does show the strength of their coupling. Hoenstly I did feel more Natasha and Peggy as sort of a couple but eh guess they still want a case of the not gays for a Captain America esque lead here. And there were again solid jokes of Carter not wanting Tony and Bruce messing around with Hydra Stomper Steve (and him being stuck to the suit does at least give it an air of tragedy which again would have worked more if Steve died but not beating that horse again), the ultra American fake esque attempt of the cover Russian town and Melina getting the widows to target Natasha's bad leg in their fight. Now that's a good use of "oh hey let's use that relationship sinisterly" the Black Widow movie showed.

So yeah another solid ep with again some minor issues but hey tone still flows better and it is being more different then we got from Season 1. I do wonder if any of the remaining episodes will hit the emotional or plotting highs of the last season but eh guess we'll see soon enough.

 

[Yojimbo]

I've watched up to What If Iron Man Crashed into Grandmaster? and I'm finding season 2 lackluster so far. The voice acting... even with the actual actors from live action I don't how to put it, but come off as obnoxious or off-putting in these episodes. The stories - trying to pack a mini-movie into a less than 30 minute format is not doing them any favors. Not really a fan of the animation style either, the human beings look off -- but onto what I liked. Only episode 2 stood out just because it was a new Avengers team and Foster as Goliath was so cool and the pathos of Hope and Hank bonding with Peter was well done! From what I've heard 3 episodes in the back half are supposed to be amazing so here's hoping.

 

[Frontier]

Once again proving that Peggy Carter loves doing Steve Rogers' greatest hits 90% the same, we've even got her leading an Avengers team in the Battle of New York with almost the exact same roster Steve did. Just with Wasp instead of Hulk. I mean, it's great that we finally get a Wasp on an Avengers team, though it was probably Hope instead of Janet .

Also Tony ends up normal Iron Man and Bruce is seemingly not The Hulk but affiliated with The Avengers...I was kind of expecting more divergences. Then again, they heavily diverged when it came to anything Cap and Black Widow related .

"I usually don't do sequels" - well, there goes hope for sequels to your favorite episode! Captain Carter is just too special I guess .

The Peggy/Natasha Gal Pals dynamic is in full force in this episode. Honestly I feel like Natasha interacted with Peggy more in this episode than she did any other female hero in any of the movies (I don't count Yelena) .

I love how Peggy has seen Star Wars through to ESB but not Robocop .

Lake Bell still selling Natasha's snark as well as she sells Poison Ivy's! She even gets to speak some Russian! And did I mention how much I love the Winter Soldier design for Black Widow ?

So is the idea that in this universe Widow successfully killed Dreykov which let Melina step up and lead the Red Room and go full villain like she is in the comics? Honestly I actually prefer it that way, she's a much better villain than Dreykov and Rachel Weisz played her really well here. The only thing I would've wanted is for them to call her "Iron Maiden" .

Dang Widow, knowing your gal pals' boyfriend has secretly been turned into a ruthless killing machine by your organization is usually a good thing to reveal earlier .

Old Man Bucky in Pierce's position is pretty neat, and watching him try to help Steve was great. I kind of wondered who he married though .

So is Rumlow like...not Hydra here? I guess they really did a better job cleaning up Hydra in this universe, SHIELD looks safe. Kind of surreal they keep bringing Frank Grillo back despite how disappointed he was with how little they used him as Crossbones .

Wow, way to confide in your teammates, Peggy! Honestly I get where Tony and Bruce might come off a little "mad scientist-y" but they probably would have been able to get to the heart of the issue and come up with a more practical solution for saving Steve. I feel like Peggy rushes into things and more half-cocked than Steve would have .

Where were these Americana robots in the BW movie? Also, was it Natasha just being snarky or in this universe was she actually living on the Red Room floating fortress? It seemed newer in her own movie. .

Using her 3rd grade injury against her! Low blow for a mom, Melina !

Melina vs Natasha was 10x better than the actual final fight in the Black Widow movie

Once again the only way to stop a brainwashed loved one is to stop fighting, though honestly Peggy's plea sounded more desperate and heartrending. Like she not only didn't want to fight Steve but she was just so desperate to stop fighting like all her bravado is just a mask to hide how depressed and lonely she is. I guess it was kind of true for Steve too but he didn't really express it like that .

You know it's bad when Uatu breaks character .

I love how Peggy gets roped into the 1602 episode by Merlin Wanda (Elizabeth Olsen!) and 1602 Fury. Her English blood calls for her to save the queen !

 

[RoyalRubble]

Introducing Kahhori, the newest "What If" super hero!

Marvel's What If...?
Season 2, Episode 6 - What If Kahhori Reshaped the World?
Episode Debut - December 27, 2023

A Mohawk woman ventures into the waters of the Forbidden Lake to help save her people.

Comments?

We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!

Additionally, please use Spoiler Tags if you wish to discuss the events of an episode in other threads outside this Talkback for the first 7 days after its premiere.

Related Links:
"Marvel's What If?" (Disney+ Animated Series) News & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...? (Disney+)" News & Discussion Thread, Part 2 (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...?" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)
"Marvel Animation on Disney+" News & Discussion (Spoilers)
"Marvel on Disney+" Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 8 (Spoilers)
"Marvel Cinematic Universe" News & Discussion, Part 9 (Spoilers)

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

"What If Kahhori Reshaped The World?" - You know there are a few quibbles I do have with this one. There are a couple of a bit too quirky exchanges for the world this is in (and yeah it's all subtitled but I don't think even space stoned powered Indian warriors would have a "nobody gets it their first time" type of comment treated so goofily) and honestly considering this is our first What If episode fully starring a totally made up character who wasn't in the films or shows but wasn't even in other comics so is debuting here, doesn't really have a specifically unique personality. I do feel like her connection with her brother and even struggling to really use the powers somewhat be it making the branches or racing ahead far above the others and needing to learn control and not being able to do it on her own she isn't like a Mary Sue but she also seems just to be strong of will and determined and fearless and well "girl boss" without much depth or arc. Granted this doesn't have the time to be a Moana and fully paint an arc but like I do wish we got something more of her especially if she's supposed to be important for this arc. Which yeah it is weird they are starting like in the middle of this season and again wish I hadn't spoiled myself to know that Supreme Strange is being brought back in a major way but that's not this episode's problem and hopefully if she shows up later on we can get more from her.

But again those are minor quibbles as honestly I felt this one actually did work fairly well. I do appreciate that though there are some jokes here and there it is planted as a much more serious kind of episode and they do a good job really respecting a lot of Indian traditions and massive points for like 95% of this being fully subtitled for both Kahhori's people and the Spanish people as well. Also unlike Avatar that still has a massive "white savior" problem it refuses to fully copt to and well allowed itself to be sequeled again without taking as much drastic action, I actually do quite like the arc for what Kahhori is doing with Alahraks and these other "sky people". It does seem that though Kahhori is determined to go back between actually performing in the hunt and then at the dance I could see that she actually might have given into temptation and actually joined the others in this "paradise" being fine just being there and not using their powers in the standard world. But it was the others spainards coming in that reminded her of how dangerous they are and actually getting the portal closer due to realizing they will kill and tear apart her people and taking a stand against that. Typically these sort of stories are super finger waving at like the generally unjust or awful groups but I appreciate also doing that at the ones who don't want to get involved and how bad that is and then Kahhori getting help in tearing apart the ships and then how she blew away Gonzolo. Which is really what won me on this episode; the title is "what if Kahhori Reshaped the World" so having her just drive away the Spanish who were attacking her people and getting them back isn't really doing that. But opening a portal along with the other sky people and easily taking out the queen's forces and showing how little they can do as they try and broker peace IS going about and changing the world. And honestly the fact they haven't fully taken out any of the Montauk Tribe (at least shown on screen) makes me feel it makes sense to be more in a "we are showcasing our power but as a deterrent not as a way of starting a war" that does make sense and does make me even more curious why Superior Strange wants her.

So yeah this does mostly work for what it's string to do and certainly feels like a unique and solid offering for this particular series.

 

[RoyalRubble]

A.C. Bradley posted some tidbits about the Captain Carter episode.

 

[Frontier]

This season has not been kind to Asgard, but I guess the death of Asgard was the best thing to ever happen to the Mohawk people .

It's nice to see them treat Surtur as a serious threat instead of comedy relief .

Pretty cool that this is the MCU's first truly original Superhero and character, and a Native hero at that. Though now I can only wonder how soon before they transition her into the comics or the main MCU Universe .

Also that commitment to have the characters all speak in their native language! Only saving English for the Watcher and the special guest star! They even color-coded the subtitles! Sure some of the translations read a little more like MCU dialogue than period-dialogue, but it still worked !

Kahhori's origin story hits all the classic beats...energetic and idealistic young woman stumbles into an environment for giving powers, tragedy strikes, and she begins her journey to become a Superhero .

These people are like the children of Quicksilver and Jean Grey with the super speed and telekinesis. Really their only weakness seems to be they can only control/hold back so much, otherwise they're pretty much unstoppable .

They didn't really need to humanize the Conquistador, but I liked the scene where he was genuinely concerned for his men .

I don't know why but Kahhori's training montage gave me Disney Princess vibes...

Anyone else get some vibes between Kahhori and Atahraks ?

So if the Space Stone created some kind of Spirit World in it's energies, does that imply that Valhalla was also born from the Space Stone? Does it create these kind of eternal afterlifes? And does that make Kahhori and her people kind of the legacy of the Asgardian Gods? Almost like the Third World transitioning into the Fourth World ?

Is Kahhori meant to be a prodigy or was her having a bullet wound when she entered into the pool mean the power seeped into her more than it did the others? Or maybe she was chosen ?

Wow, I wouldn't want to be pounded into the sand by telekinesis .

So, obviously the big thing in this universe is that the Native Americans are now super powerful, possibly immortal, beings and the new dominating force on Earth only held back by their own ideals and morality...but how far will that go? How much will this shape the balance of power on Earth? Will there never be an America and the consequences to that? I feel like the only world power that could match them are Wakanda (who should be around by now, right?) and the Eternals .

Just like with Wanda last episode the credits basically spoiled the special guest at the end, but Strange Supreme was a nice surprise. Uatu wasn't surprised to see him so I'm guessing he knows what Strange is after. Does he need Kahhori for something involving Killmonger and Ultron ?

A.C. Bradley posted some tidbits about the Captain Carter episode.

Would've been nice to see more of that...actually feels like this was begging an all-female Avengers team .

 

[RoyalRubble]

What the Hela, here's another new "What If" today...

Marvel's What If...?
Season 2, Episode 7 - What If Hela Found the Ten Rings?
Episode Debut - December 28, 2023

Hela — stripped of her powers and banished to Earth — comes across a new source of power: the Ten Rings.

Comments?

We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!

Additionally, please use Spoiler Tags if you wish to discuss the events of an episode in other threads outside this Talkback for the first 7 days after its premiere.

Related Links:
"Marvel's What If?" (Disney+ Animated Series) News & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...? (Disney+)" News & Discussion Thread, Part 2 (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...?" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)
"Marvel Animation on Disney+" News & Discussion (Spoilers)
"Marvel on Disney+" Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 8 (Spoilers)
"Marvel Cinematic Universe" News & Discussion, Part 9 (Spoilers)

 

[Yojimbo]

Episode 6 was amazing. It's what every episode of this series should have been, a truly original idea and not just remixing characters and pivotal scenes from past movies. If Ragnarok came some 500 years earlier, it led to an entirely new character (and her people) gaining powers from the Tesseract rather than just Carol Danvers in the 1980s and having a totally different power set. I liked Kahhori's sense of courage and conviction from the start and then at the end was wise enough to see there needed to be peace, not war. Kahhori completely rejected Western coloniasm and all its tenants; the greed of pursuing power like the Fountain of Youth, slavery, racism, ethnic and ideological arrogance (and monarchies I suppose, the symbolism of her telekinetically crushing Queen Isabella's throne). She essentially averted her people's own Ragnarok. Smart move to tie existing MCU mythology of the Asgards and the Infinity Stones into Mohawk culture to create a beautiful half hour of compelling story with stunning visuals... puts the whole Multiverse Saga to shame.

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

"What If Hela Found The Ten Rings?" - Aka the "I guess technically Thor's journey STARTED as a redemption arc, we just wrapped up Loki's show of him having a redemption arc after his movie's redemption arc, now why not show Hela having one" episode. You know I admit I get her having one and the one presented wasn't bad but eh part of the fun to me of these what ifs is that sometimes you can just go dark and have like villains win which I appreciated seeing in the first season. I guess more to Fone Bone's pleasure we aren't doing that with this season at all with each having more overall satisfying or happier endings but again to me there needs to be a balance. Also weird how the last two episodes seemed like they were building to something and NOW getting a one off again pacing of this season is a lot more wonky. And though Cate Blanchett is entertaining as Hela in Ragnarok and did work here, these what ifs REALLY seem to be amping up the quips to kind of an obnoxious degree. When you had Hela talking so much to the butt face creature and going on if it's head is it's ass that's the part when I rolled my eyes some and went "okay most of these aren't really working now can we move along?" Thankfully the later half did amp up the seriousness without needing as many lines and honestly despite complaints before I do like this episode.

For example the idea of Odin actually treating Hela like he later did Thor and just banishing her away and how she'd react to not having her powers is interesting. And honestly though part of me would have wanted to be seen as a more villainous conquerors I actually do like the idea of Wenwu being entranced by Hela seeing how tough she is and actually wanting to partner up with her to generally more help the world. Which wasn't really the point of Wenwu even in the prologue of Shang Chi but again, different timeline I can buy this being a different attitude towards having these powers as well and just being entranced by Hela even after she left for Tao Lo. And again though I don't need a Hela redemption arc I do appreciate it being Jian Yi (who... isn't a character I think in the MCU may have been like based on someone related to the Inhumans in Angets of Shield I don't know otherwise) actually through training getting Hela to admit what she's really fighting for and what she actually really wants and her realizing it's freedom. I do feel this was done better with Samurai Jack in Ashi since it was made clear earlier on how the brainwashing of the daughters of Aku went to strip away original desires but this one coats by with us knowing and now seeing more of how bad a father Odin was and knowing of Hela's resentment to him but it's now the realization of wanting something more then the path's been on and evolving past that. I said yesterday didn't feel Kahhori had that interesting a character journey but I feel they did do that with Hela and yeah her and Wenwu teaming up against Odin was a pretty cool battle even if yeah Odin and Wenwu and so many others weren't voiced their original actors. Plus I like the idea in this universe Hela is more active in taking out threats to the 9 realms then Odin was with her going after Thanos before he recruits Gamora so yeah that part was all solid and Blanchett still had a few funny parts. Like far from the best episode but decently good for what it was.

 

[Frontier]

What If Hela had been put through Thor 1? They even recreate the moment where Thor tries in vain to lift Mjolnir when she tries to lift her helmet. Like brother like sister, I guess. Or father like daughter, like when Odin catches and destroys Mjolnir like Hela did in Ragnarok .

Though I have to say it felt kind of weird to have an inscription palced on Hela's helmet like it's Thor's hammer .

They didn't really have time to unpack the whole "Hela is Odin's daughter and firstborn" part of Ragnarok, so it was nice to see that explored more even if I can't say I quite loved the execution of it .

I can't believe they got Cate Blanchett in their Disney+ streaming show...or Idris Elba, even if Heimdall only had, like, three lines. Though the Shang-Chi cast don't fare near as well though the sound-a-likes for Odin, Wenwu, and Jiayi aren't half-bad .

Hela and the Mandarin hooking up? That's certainly a change from the comics .

I will say this much, Hela looks amazing in Asian wear !

Honestly where I feel like the episode fails is trying to spin Hela as a character that can be redeemed or was worth redeeming because I feel like it had to fundamentally change who her character is and what she represents. Like I can't believe someone who genuinely came off as a complete psychopath and who genuinely enjoyed the death and destruction so much would ever really turn over a new leaf. They obviously try to spin it that Odin raising her that way is why she ended up like that but that doesn't change that she fundamentally came to accept that part of herself and I don't see a training arc being enough to undo that or make her turn into a complete 180 of a character. It just didn't feel like Hela .

And also they had to really jump through hoops to make Odin come off like the bad guy. Like, Wenwu shouldn't have the 10 Rings? I mean, he was kind of a bad guy and conqueror back then so...yeah? Unless the issue was just that humans shouldn't have the 10 Rings but that's a whole 'nother topic. Odin thought Hela was going too far and tried to teach her a lesson but suddenly he's being overzealous and acting like she was (maybe this was the point, but it felt hollow knowing what Hela was really like and downplays her own culpability in it). It's not that I don't understand what they were trying to go for, it just felt very unnecessary and missing the point of Hela's appeal as one of the MCU's few unabashed and purely evil female villains .

Also it just makes Ragnarok into an unintentional tragedy because now Thor's casual dismissal of Hela looks worse when really if she had been given a chance she would've been 10x the hero he was .

Oh, and now Hela is White Hela, as if she's Raven from Teen Titans. Because nothing says dark character turned pure like a white costume .

And it turns out Hela becoming a good guy is the best thing that could ever happen because she and Wenwu become universal saviors that even end up saving Gamora from Thanos and freeing the Nine Realms from Asgardian Tyranny (?). Making the main MCU look pretty worse by comparison. Really the only negative is Shang-Chi and his sister are never born in this timeline, otherwise it's much better than the main timeline .

 

[RoyalRubble]

As 2023 draws to a close, let us go back to 1602 for a spell...

Marvel's What If...?
Season 2, Episode 8 - What If the Avengers Assembled in 1602?
Episode Debut - December 29, 2023

Captain Carter tries to undo the anomaly that strands familiar heroes and villains in the year 1602.

Comments?

We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!

Additionally, please use Spoiler Tags if you wish to discuss the events of an episode in other threads outside this Talkback for the first 7 days after its premiere.

Related Links:
"Marvel's What If?" (Disney+ Animated Series) News & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...? (Disney+)" News & Discussion Thread, Part 2 (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...?" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)
"Marvel Animation on Disney+" News & Discussion (Spoilers)
"Marvel on Disney+" Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 8 (Spoilers)
"Marvel Cinematic Universe" News & Discussion, Part 9 (Spoilers)

 

[Yojimbo]

Title made me think of that Neil Gaiman story. Hmm, a new threat of rifts that suck people up like black holes. Or is it actually an incursion in its late-stage, universe killing state?

Isn't this Strange supposed to be eternally watching Kilmonger and Zolavision fight while trapped in a mirror dimension? But here it seems Strange has been gathering a new Guardians of the Multiverse to deal with another threat.... but this Strange has always been suspicious...

 

[wonderfly]

From the front page of AnimeSuperhero.com:

"Marvel’s What If… Introduces New Character"​

"If you were watching the new episode of Marvel’s What If… yesterday and racking your brain trying to remember where in the decades of comic book continuity its central character came from, you can cool it now. The character has never been seen before; she was introduced in the Season 2, Episode 6 episode.

Kahhori is an indigenous woman whose home is attacked by invading Conquistators searching for the fabled Fountain of Youth. In this universe, it exists….in a sense. It’s not the water itself, but the Tesseract buried beneath the pond that teleports anyone who gets near it to a paradise where they never age and gain superpowers. Only problem is, there’s no way out."

Read the full article here.

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

"What If The Avengers Assembled In 1602" - Okay so here's what I thought this episode was going to be based on the synopsis and teaser we saw in episode 5; That THIS was going to be What If based more on WandaVision. Like the title was secretly going to be something like "What If Wanda Was Into Camelot" or something like that and instead of bringing nearby people into a fake westview Sitcom she was actually bringing people from alternate dimensions to play a role in this huge ye old roleplay and that Peggy eventually found out and knocked some sense into her managing to get people home which... yeah isn't what this one is at all and...


You know how I normally give the negatives of an episode then focus more on the positives I overall enjoyed? Yeah this is going to be the opposite as I feel I should give the couple of things I enjoyed first out of the way, so here we go. I mean there were a couple of decent quips from Loki like him quoting Shakesphere and having the skull taken and him and Thor being insulted when Carter said Thor was being more dramatic. I also feel Scott/Ant Man had some decent quips like being annoyed at the archers having shrinking people on them (which actually that is a cool idea on it's own) saying "hey shrinking's my thing" and realizing he didn't really have a plan against the annihilator. There were some good fights mostly Carter's battle in the hallway and at least the start of the Hulk vs Hogan Hulk brawl. And you know I will say that at least the IDEA that the one out of time was Captain America due to him being hit into another dimension thanks to the scuffle with Thanos in Infinity War was a cool twist so props on them for that one.

With that said... I feel this is honestly the WORST What If episode of the entire show. Like I am willing to overlook a lot of the logistical fall out (like how incursions were established at working a lot differently in other movies as to why it's such a major problem in this reality, how inconsistent some of the characters remembering elements of a more modern reality feels ridiculously inconsistent between all of the various heroes since it seems some have no idea of a more modern time while others do. Also I get that the Watcher doesn't interfere and I appreciate it being pointed out he can't look into the future of worlds that really don't have them which ties into the whole Loki point of "if a world is going to have an apocalypse that time right before makes it impossible to suss out", but wouldn't that mean he wouldn't know where Peggy Went if he couldn't track that timeline? And if he's tracking it through her why wouldn't he just send her back if he didn't have any faith of this time being saved and still wanted her around cause she's a Multiverse Guardian) because to me the big problem is that this is a very BORING and Lame world to spend so much time on. You know as bad as the tonal problems of "What If Zombies" were, that's actually an interesting story to explore; the Avengers having to deal with a zombie apocalypse and finding a cure in this world of mostly dead and rotting individuals. This episode though is dealing with the characters brought back to the past or like past selves of these characters acting out these medevial roles and having homages to Robin Hood and the Knights of the Round Table and of Shakesphere and... yeah this is just a boring lame place to be in. The Kahhori world was very unique and was with characters and scenarios we haven't really kind of encoutnered before but this is just placing a grab bag of various characters in these tired roles that don't have any interest in them. Like even what If wise Mad King Thor feels like such a break from all the other Thors I can't connect with him and blacksmith Tony and Robin Hood Steve Rogers and Man in the Iron Man Hulk just feel like they were attaching references without too much wit or intrigue to the part. Like there's this weird idea writers have that think "oh because we take certain characters and put them in certain scenarios" that's all you need but... yeah by the time "The Black Knight" was out over 20 years ago bringing someone into the future from medevial times wasn't enough for me and it gets annoying seeing places still doing it. I know BTW this is based on the 1602 Marvel comics somewhat but as presented here in this episode that was not a very unique on intriguing idea for an episode and was something I found obnoxious to spend time with.

You know what's even somehow MORE annoying? This is yet another episode with a Tragic Steve and Peggy pairing/relationship angst and my god am I getting really sick of that. I got it in the first episode even if it wasn't that great and it was sort of working in Hydra Stomper and I guess the reason they didn't go full bad ending there besides setting up Civil War Captain Carter is because they were having another variation of it there but just... no. There needs to be MORE for them to have Peggy Carter do then mull after Steve or go to worlds where she can mull after another version of Steve Rogers so I was already getting annoyed seeing the two act all cutsey here so just to have it that Peggy Carter needed to be the one to come here to take out Steve Rogers... yeah I'm like DONE with this relationship. You know it had a good ending to it in Endgame but now the team feels "hey we can milk it from other different angles" but no if you are going to still have Captain Carter around you need more to her then just this one thing especially when they are totally different characters technically. Like give Peggy Carter some more legit problems. I mean her big thing here is how she never gives up on a world or on a problem and always wants to do the right thing so if you see her fully fail in that in some way and having to deal with that failure that'd be interesting then just "oh look there's another Steve for her to make puffy eyes" at. Ugh yeah I did NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT like this one at all again easily the worst of the entire show so hope next episode fairs a lot better.

 

[Magmaster12]

Very disappointed by today's episode, 1602 is my favorite alternate reality and they really screwed it up.

 

[Frontier]

They finally did one of the most iconic What If stories of all time, the 1602 episode! And of course that's the episode where they bring back Hiddleston/Loki to quote Shakespeare and wax poetic about Iago .

Admittedly they use the idea that a bunch of different elements (Asgardians, tech, people, powers) to handwave away a lot of the traditional elements from the main universe into a more medieval setting, so they don't commit as hard to the setting as, say, Neil Gaiman did in the actual comic...but then again, Neil Gaiman is Neil Gaiman and the What If writers are...the What If writers .

Also I'm sure some might call foul that there are no X-Men or FF in this universe, unlike the comic, but that was never going to happen .

Another Queen Hela? Man, they really want to commit to this idea that Hela wasn't really that evil and could've been good all along. Also the MCU doesn't really seem to love the idea of Thor as a king...though any excuse for Hemsworth's Thor to wear the helmet for an entire episode and be more serious is okay in my book .

No wonder the Watcher doesn't do sequels! Apparently the Guardians of the Multiverse can actually see/hear him so he can't get away with his monologue around them .

Mage Scarlet Witch was really cool. It was just nice to see a heroic version of Wanda again .

"Because I'm Captain Carter!" Well, that basically sums up like 90% of Peggy's character on this show and how the show treats her. Although what variant of Captain America wouldn't do everything they could even for a doomed universe? Though that reminds me that Peggy doesn't even have a codename, she's just "Captain Peggy Carter" .

I do appreciate how much this version of Happy committed to the 1602 bit, and it seems like Happy being The Freak is another staple "What If" thing like Peggy as Captain Carter. And we finally got to see him fight The Hulk! And he did surprisingly well !

Medieval Destroyer looked fantastic !

Rogers Hood? Count on the most American man of all time to be stealing from the British aristocracy to give to the poor (I think?). And of course the moment Peggy sees a version of Steve Rogers they're all over each other. There has to be at least one universe where he ends up with Sharon though, right? Right ?

Where did they get all the Yellowjackets from? Where's their version of Cross? Then again, I guess the natural endgoal would be to mass-produce his serum .

I feel like Mick Wingert could've done a more medieval-inspired take on Tony's voice instead of just...Tony's voice. Ditto Paul Rudd as Scott. Actually I'm surprised it took us this long to see Scott .

Mark Ruffalo voicing an actually tortured version of Bruce Banner...for all of five seconds .

Thor with a sword is surprisingly effective .

I figured the Forerunner would be Steve, not only because in the actual 1602 comics he was also a time traveler, but also because it would be the best way to make things hit home for Peggy and dash all the confidence and bravado she had in trying to resolve everything by adding some tragedy to it. I also wondered how he looked like a Steve with the Super Soldier Serum, and it's because he's straight up a version of Steve from the Infinity War transported thanks to grazing the Time Stone .

That scene with Thor during the sacrifice scene was kind of weird...like he was all "do it Carter!" And then goading her on and then he was just kind of happy at her having to sacrifice the love of her life...again .

So Strange Supreme is recruiting Peggy too for whatever he's got going on. Is he making a new team with Peggy, Kahhori, and possibly other characters who've appeared this season (Kid Star-Lord, White Hela, Nova Nebula?). But why? I assume Uatu knows this has to happen otherwise he would've just ported Peggy back to her Earth instead of leaving her for Strange

Very disappointed by today's episode, 1602 is my favorite alternate reality and they really screwed it up.

Honestly I think the main problem is they didn't really commit to it as hard as the comic did with reconciling all the disparate Marvel elements into something contemporary to the timeline or having characters actually act like they're from the 1602 era...instead it's just everybody, their tech, and powersets just ported into 1602.

 

[RoyalRubble]

See the second season send-off, starring Strange Supreme!

Marvel's What If...?
Season 2, Episode 9 - What If Strange Supreme Intervened?
Episode Debut - December 30, 2023

Captain Carter discovers the greatest threat to all existence may be closer than she realizes.

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Related Links:
"Marvel's What If?" (Disney+ Animated Series) News & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...? (Disney+)" News & Discussion Thread, Part 2 (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...?" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)
"Marvel Animation on Disney+" News & Discussion (Spoilers)
"Marvel on Disney+" Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 8 (Spoilers)
"Marvel Cinematic Universe" News & Discussion, Part 9 (Spoilers)

 

[Frontier]

Look at that What If version of the Marvel Studios intro with all the What If original stuff! Of course Peggy is still replicating the same stuff Steve does even in it. Also there's Red Guardian and a Wakandan woman from what I assume are season 3 episodes .

I didn't think of the commonality of both Peggy and Strange being focused on people they can't be with and how that would be the emotional core of the episode...but I also can't help but think that all Supreme Strange really needed was a Clea in his life instead of continuing his obsession with Christine (we know Peggy never really moved on in the main universe even when it seemed like she did because she married Steve) .

So the idea is that Kahhori was helping Strange hunt people down before he enlisted Peggy? And that's how she learned English and knew about Zombie Wanda !

Did Strange really think he could pit Peggy and Kahhori against each other and not expect them to talk? That was probably his first mistake. Actually expected this episode to turn into the two of them freeing that Earth were Red Skull won from Nazi tyranny .

Gunslinger Loki! Older Wenwu! Thors! The Freak (is he a universal ender or just a hero Strange grabbed?)! Cyborg Rocket Raccoon! I wanted to see more of these folks !

Now Kahhori has the ability to teleport stuff making her even more powerful. Though to a degree of humbling she doesn't have the same level of power as, say, Dr. Strange or the Scarlet Witch, her real advantage against Wanda was that she was...well, a zombie .

Was that supposed to be the main version of Hela and Surtur given they recognized each other? But man, someone on the writing staff must really love Hela with the amount of depicting her in a positive light and having her help that happened this season .

Look at Killmonger anti-climactically erasing Thanos! And look at Kahhori anti-climactically poofing Killmonger out of his Infinity Stone armor! The power of the Infinity Stones doesn't mean much when you're not a main character. Was really weird not hearing Killmonger talk though .

Honestly I feel like Infinity Stone Captain Carter and having her and Kahhori wield a dozen powerful MCU items with ease was about the peak they can hit with those characters, especially Peggy. Though to be honest I'm kind of surprised they didn't have either of them straight up wielding Mjolnir without telekinesis .

I just find it kind of funny that we had a lot of characters show up without their celebrity VA's but we were able to get Stanley Tucci back as Dr. Erskine .

No better way to exorcise your demons than with an Infinity Stone punch! And Strange dies as himself holding back his demons and sacrificing himself...to actually succeed at creating a world with Christine alive in it, even if it's one without him. Then again Christine's seem to need Stephen's less than Stephen's need Christine's (other than in the worlds where they have Clea's I guess) .

This was a good season for The Watcher! He got to just do his job and watch instead of intervene for once .

Are they going to use Peggy and Uatu watching the Multiverse Yggdrasil tree as the premise for season 3 ?