"Masters of the Universe: Revelation" Series Talkback (Spoilers)

[RoyalRubble]

Use this thread to discuss the new He-Man and the Masters of the Universe animated series! The first 5 episodes debut today on Netflix!


Masters of the Universe: Revelation
Debut - July 23, 2021 (on Netflix)

Synopsis: After a cataclysmic battle between He-Man and Skeletor, Eternia is fractured and the Guardians of Grayskull are scattered. And after decades of secrets tore them apart, it’s up to Teela to reunite the broken band of heroes, and solve the mystery of the missing Sword of Power in a race against time to restore Eternia and prevent the end of the universe.

Featuring the voices of Chris Wood, Mark Hamil, Lena Headey, Sarah Michelle Gellar and many more, the Mattel Television production is animated by Powerhouse Animation (Castlevania). Masters of the Universe: Revelations also features the voices of Liam Cunningham (Man-At-Arms), Stephen Root (Cringer), Diedrich Bader (King Randor/Trap Jaw), Susan Eisenberg (Sorceress), Alicia Silverstone (Queen Marlena), Justin Long (Roboto), Phil LaMarr (He-Ro), Tony Todd (Scare Glow), Cree Summer (Priestess), Kevin Michael Richardson (Beast Man) and Kevin Conroy (Mer-Man).

Kevin Smith is exec producer and showrunner; executive producers are Frederic Soulie, Adam Bonnett, Christopher Keenan and Rob David, with Susan Corbin as producer. Writers are Marc Bernardin, Eric Carrasco, Diya Mishra and Tim Sheridan. Revelations features music by composer Bear McReary.

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Related links:
"Masters of the Universe: Revelation" (Netflix) News & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)
"He-Man and the Masters of the Universe" (Netflix CGI Animated Series) News & Discussion
Netflix "Castlevania" Series Talkback
Netflix's "She-Ra" News & Discussion Thread
"She-Ra and the Princesses of Power" Series Talkback (Spoilers)

 

[Fone Bone]

Masters Of The Universe: Revelation "The Power Of Grayskull"

I was bored by most of that until the last five minutes. We'll get to that.

My first surprise is that this was actually WRITTEN by Kevin Smith. Because say what you will about his movies, he's a clever writer. Here the Cringer and Orko jokes are just as bland and dull as they are on the old show. I was disappointed. This show has better animation, but it was still as boring as the Filmation stuff.

Except for the last scene. It addressed something that bugged the crap out of me about the Filmation show. The people who knew Adam was He-Man were a ridiculously small group. What annoyed me, in the 80's mindset it was, is that it never expanded for any reason. Nobody ever trusted Teela, or no new guest character ever learned or kept the secret, it was in a total holding pattern between five people. I don't know about you all, but that bored the hell out of me. The best part of superheroes is bending who knows what identity and why. But never letting anyone else in on it, the old He-Man cartoon had zero stakes and pathos. You cannot hit a bigger Total Reset Button at the end of every episode than to have the only five people who know the secret still be the only five people who know the secret.

I like that Teela is angry. It's been too damn long, and as the new Man At Arms, this is definitely something that should have been handed down to her (by Duncan). The fact that it comes as a total surprise is just wrong on every level.

For the record, I think King Randor is an idiot. I understand why he's mad at Duncan. But the truth is he JUST told Adam he wasn't actually proud of him. He ain't winning Father of the Year, Duncan or no Duncan. He has nobody to blame for that strained relationship but himself.

When this was a standard He-Man episode I was bored. When it blew up the secret identity I was interested. And I'm starting to get why the subtitle of the show is "Revelation". ***1/2.

Masters Of The Universe: Revelation "The Poisoned Chalice"

The first half was boring, but once they get to Castle Grayskull my interest was piqued again.

I love the idea of Evil-Lynn forming an alliance with the Sorceress. I think this is a bad idea, simply because of Lynn's name. But the Sorceress says their interests align for now, and I believe she believes that. But I still think it's a mistake just based on the name.

My favorite thing in the episode was giving Cringer of all people the role of the wise sage. Stuff like this is the reason this show won't be getting or needing a second season. They are stretching the premise beyond He-Man and exploring the characters and situations in way we've never seen before. That is not an open-ended journey. Whether this winds up an actual sequel or a spiritual sequel doesn't really matter. The set-up and storyline scream "Coda" to me. Whether it's considered canon or not with the Filmation stuff, I believe this series intends to give a definitive ending to Eternia and the He-Man Universe. Which is something that vaguely excites me.

Good episode. ***1/2.

Masters Of The Universe: Revelation "The Most Dangerous Man In Eternia"

Evil-Lynn being super shady at the end.

I like that Lynn always considered Man-At-Arms more dangerous than He-Man. Despite how TV-G the old show was, I kind of understand her point by his fighting style here. He-Man fights for ideals befitting a teenager and young man. Duncan fights to the death like the old battled-hardened warrior he is. That's impossible to get across in an 80's cartoon, but if this show says that dynamic was always in place, I can kind of see it.

I love that Beast Man is in the alliance simply because he still has the hots for Evil-Lynn. Make no mistake: I think it's really cool he is already living in peace in that village with Duncan, Orko, and Roboto.

I haven't made up my mind about this version of Orko. I'm afraid of getting attached because I'm 100% certain he's gonna die before this is all over. His demeanor screams to me that he is an eventual self-sacrifice to save all the heroes. He's too sad and broken to be anything else.

Solid. ***.

Masters Of The Universe: Revelation "Land Of The Dead"

That was something.

They were laying it on a little thick in Teela and Scareglow's mind confrontation but everything else landed like gangbusters.

Orko's sacrifice was precisely as magnificent as it should have been. When he says "I am not afraid," I got literal chills, because it is so far outside of everything we previously knew about that character. I like the characterization that Orko had in the episode. He was always the goofball on the old show, but over the years he's internalized his goof-ups as some huge failure on his end. Which makes him finally getting it right as he died all the more rewarding.

Evil-Lynn likes him in spite of herself. I don't blame her.

I cannot credit the Filmation cartoon for this, but ultimately his learning his real name is Oracle is a bit of genius. It totally fits in hindsight, even though the toys makers at Mattel only named him that because it sounded spacey and alien. What a rewarding thing to learn for people who have been familiar with this franchise for 30 or 40 years. I cannot rave enough about that twist.

Scareglow as a villain is pretty cool. And I like that it's Orko that is his downfall.

Seeing Roboto's see-through body again reminds me why him in a cloak is wholly inadequate.

Adam at the end is another thing to prove that I ultimately have no idea where this is headed. It's going for a big ending, and I can guess pieces of it (like Orko's sacrifice). But ultimately this show is so big and unexpected because it seems like literally anything can happen at this point. Which is a very good thing. *****.

Masters Of The Universe: Revelation "The Forge At The Forest Of Forever"

Yes, anything can happen. Not willing to believe Adam is dead yet. But he COULD be. All bets are off.

The notion of the afterlife being set up here being impossible for mortals to achieve, and Adam only getting there for "services rendered" strikes me as entirely unfair, and as if this Universe is badly designed. It's not as bad as The Good Place in unfairness in its set-up. But at least The Good Place fixed itself by the end. This specific mess does not seem likely to either be corrected or even further explored. It's just an unpleasant fact we can't do anything about.

It's interesting Adam chose to be Adam in Heaven instead of He-Man. That's because Adam is the real him.

Roboto loving the idea that he felt fear before he died was a total Data move. Data loved whenever he somehow experienced unpleasant emotions too. He also died as well.

Skeletor talking about his face being someone nobody else would have is scary and on the nose. I think Smith is deliberately drawing a parallel with the incel movement here. I'm starting to see where the backlash for this show is gonna start.

My only complaint is that we should have gotten the whole season at once. This hiatus is gonna be a pain to wait through. ****1/2.

 

[Freddy]

First episode impressions:

I probably should start by saying that I never was a He-Man kid. I did watch the 2003 show growing up, but it wasn't like my favorite thing ever and I have not gone back to it as an adult, while I know the original Filmation show only through memes and out of context Skeletor clips (I do have the Dolph Lungred movie in my DVD collection for a so-bad-it's-good movie night, though). I guess He-Man, as a hero, just felt boring to me even as a kid, since he was beyond OP and didn't have interesting personality, and since the main story of the franchise is pretty basic black-and-white good vs. evil (which aren’t inherently bad, just to be clear), there wasn't even much room for interesting stories to be told around the main character. But, hey, I mostly like Kevin Smith's work and have a Netflix account anyway, so I was curious enough to check this despite of that. Just keep in mind that I might not share some popular fanboy gripes.

But, as for the actual first episode, it's pretty good and got me hooked enough to watch the rest. I like how this has 80's cartoon style of cheesy jokes and dialogue, without clashing with the more serious moments. So far, most of the stunt casting works, with the two Game of Thrones alumni, Liam Cunningham and Lena Headey, being the standouts. Mark Hamill is somewhat 50-50 for me, since he clearly has fun hamming it up, but his Skeletor just sounds like all of his other villain roles and no way specific for this particular character.

Wow, what a waste of Alan Oppenheimer! I can understand that his age probably made it impossible to reprise Skeletor or be series regular in other role, but that felt downright disrespectful.

Anyway, that was a decent start. I might write my feelings about the first half of the series as a whole, once I'm done with it, if I feel I have more to say.

 

[powerjake]

Now that this new series is out.

How would everyone rate the netflix Masters of the Universe: Revelation compared to the 2002 series He-Man and the Masters of the Universe?.

 

[Last Spider]

I don't anything has disappointed me as much as this has.
I mean it's He-Man it should be simple to get right but somehow they got it so wrong it almost hurts.

 

[Freddy]

OK, happy to say that Alan Oppenheimer wasn't completely wasted. Still think that Moss Man's death was handled clumsily, since he basically comes in, has one line of dialogue and then dies. I guess that kinda highlights one problem with this show and that's how this is clearly made primarily for the fans of the property, so the show somewhat expects you to come in already with the knowledge of the backround lore and emotional investment for the characters. I wasn't lost or anything, they do give you enough to follow the plot, and certain character moments still hit the spot, but I do kinda would love to peek into an universe, where this wasn't a "standalone" mini-series, but season 5 or 6 of a full MOTU series by Smith and his crew.

The concept I liked the most was how in a fantasy world full of magic, people would turn to science for salvation when said magic is taken away from them and I would have loved to see that explored more. Hopefully, the return of Skeletor doesn't signal the end of this plot-line.

I still like this and will look forward to the second half. Have I been converted into a MOTU fanboy? Eh, not really, but this is still enjoyable.

 

[Last Spider]

guess that kinda highlights one problem with this show and that's how this is clearly made primarily for the fans of the property

I'm sure we were watching a different series if that's the impression you got.

 

[Rick Jones]

MOTU is a property I love but I don't really go back to it as much as I do with others like Real Ghostbusters or the D&D cartoon, etc. The last time that I remember watching a original He-Man episode was about 5 months ago when I watched the episode where Teela has to fill in for the Sorceress. This was before this series was on my mind at all. I think the first time that it clicked with me that this series was coming was when Kevin Smith posted a video where he was listening to the score, and since then I've been secretly excited to see it. The fall of the hubbub of the last couple of months, my expectations were a bit tempered but I knew that I was at least going to like how the show looked.

And I did like how the show looked. I liked that a lot. I think I've seen some shaky CGI elements pointed out but I had no problem with this visually. Teela and Andra's redesigns look like they fit a G.I. Joe aesthetic more than MOTU but it's not a deal breaker.

I liked seeing the old familiar faces again, although it sucked to see my boy Orko suffering like that. That was almost like the one fear I had months ago that we might see Cringer as Skeletor's throne rug or something. It sucks that everybody is in this nightmare scenario but the hope is that things will be resolved by the end of the series. As far as the show itself goes, the problem for me was how Teela was written. It might have just been bravado or whatever but she really didn't come across as likeable to me when a lot of her motivations in the conflict seemed so selfish and stubborn. That's generally one of my big character turn offs and she happens to be the main POV character of the show. Going into this, I thought that the revelation of her parentage would have been one of the reasons for her big blow up but it seems to just be the He-Man secret identity so it seems strange to me how she harps on that and cuts everyone out of her life despite everything else that's going on. I can only judge the show for what it is and not what it could have been so I did enjoy it for the most part although I think the writing could have been stronger. I hope that I don't lose track within the 6-month wait we have for the rest of the season. It's a situation like this where Disney and Amazon's weekly release schedule looks really good.

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[reflection01]

The 1982 show was called He-Man and the Masters of the Universe.

The 2002 show was called He-Man and the Masters of the Universe.

This 2021 show is called Masters of the Universe: Revelation.

That’s a pretty big hint that He-Man isn’t going to be the central figure. So anybody mad about that it’s on them.

I liked it. I haven’t seen an episode of the original show since I was a kid. I do remember liking the 2002 show even though I don’t actually remember much about it except that Skeletor got an origin story.

This feel like a faithful extension of the show from my kid memories. I enjoyed revisiting some characters. I feel like they got a nice efficient satisfying conclusion. I loved the Orko/Oracle reveal and his whole discussion with Evil-Lyn. Orko was my favorite character in the 80s but I hated how they portrayed him as incompetent.

They did a good job getting through a nice opening plot in five episodes. This show could have been a long quest for two McGuffins but they took care of it quickly. Yet I could definitely see how this show could last for awhile. There are plenty of character arcs to explore and I’m sure they’ll bring back more old characters and add new characters.

I do have to complain about one thing that took me out of the show and has taken me out of other shows. How did we get to the point where any 70% of the voice cast of any major animated show is from the same pool of two dozen people? It’s hard to stay into a show if I’m immediately thinking “Oh that’s Dietrich Bader” or “they got Kevin Conroy.”


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[Last Spider]

That’s a pretty big hint that He-Man isn’t going to be the central figure. So anybody mad about that it’s on them.

No it's not, Kevin Smith went on for months saying the entire show is centered around and all about He-Man, all the marketing put He-Man front and center, every poster or trailer they did nothing but shots of He-Man.
And this argument that we should've known because He-Man wasn't in the title is weak on just about every level, because there are multiple things in the franchise that simply use the title "Masters of the Universe" and stil have He-Man as the central character.
This was just blatant bait and switch.

 

[Fone Bone]

Let me offer some advice, speaking as someone who avoids spoilers, and trailers, and creators hyping themselves. As far as the latter is concerned, Kevin Smith is particularly useless. I think a large part of the disappointment is that the series is not what Smith promised. I didn't listen to or hear Smith's promises because creator promises don't really matter to me, and I find Smith personally annoying. I had no expectations going in.

Therefore I was able to simply judge the project on its own merits and decided I liked it. I had no expectations going in and enjoyed it because none needed to be met.

I also really hope this experience teaches you all something about Kevin Smith I have known for years. He's a decent writer and director, but when it comes to selling stuff, he's a totally unreliable hype man. I remember in the interviews he was doing in Crisis On Infinite Earths he was telling Jon Cryer how his take on Lex was amazing, and Cryer is the worst ever Lex in my mind. Smith as a fan refuses to see or acknowledge the bad in any project. So it stands to reason he doesn't see it in his own work and is going to promise things he can't deliver.

I cannot urge anyone reading this any more urgently than this: Never, ever take anything Kevin Smith says seriously for any reason. He is a clown. It's fun that he sort of leans into that in his public persona, but it also means you need to treat everything he says and promises with skepticism. I was fine with the series because I didn't bother listening to his hyperbole and false promises before the series aired.

What I don't get about Smith is that he could have definitely sold the series as an interesting twist on the canon. "Life after He-Man." "The Final Saga Of Eternia and that world's Apocalypse." "A closing of the Masters Of The Universe Mythology". All of those true descriptions sound more interesting to me than a He-Man centered series, and I don't think people would have been pissed if he had sold it as exactly what it was. Smith's problem is he anticipated predictable fan backlash, and basically lied to fans who were completed wedded to the premise, instead or trying to lure in new viewers looking for something different. When I say Smith is a clown you can't take seriously this is why. That was a great series I saw. And I still think many people who are pissed are pissed for the right reasons. Because Smith had no idea how to sell the series. And that's a damn shame. Because the series has been great, at least speaking as someone with no expectations going in. I feel bad for you guys. Ignore Kevin Smith in everything he says, even about his own projects. You'll thank me later.

Edit:

Also, keep in mind that Smith is the guy who swore up and down Batman: The Animated Series was coming back. So I've learned not to take anything he promises at face value.

 

[powerjake]

So who is really the main character in this show?

Teela or He-Man?.

 

[Dragnatek]

I don't believe they would bring Adam back just to kill him off again.

So who is really the main character in this show?

Teela or He-Man?.

Both. The show is about He-man and his powers but also about Teela who there were unanswered questions about in the original series. Such as her parents.

 

[Fone Bone]

I don't believe they would bring Adam back just to kill him off again.

Honestly, I believe you are right. Which is partly why it's problematic the series went on hiatus when it did. If the main fan complaint is "Not enough He-Man" that was probably the crappiest cliffhanger they could have left us on. I liked the series and even I wasn't happy about that one thing.

 

[reflection01]

It was hilarious that the after show started with Smith bragging about killing Adam twice then the Mattel TV exec saying it was love letter to the fans.

There’s only so much mileage they can get from big guy beats up on less powerful bad guy. That formula worked in the 80s. We’ve moved to the bad guys being much more powerful and good guys forming teams to beat them.


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[Gold Guy]

I enjoyed the first five episodes. Frankly, it's sobering how all the quality action cartoons seem to be on Netflix right now. But for the most part, it's high quality stuff. Gorgeous animation, even better than I expected, strong writing that balances a serious tone while also indulging in some 80s puns, and the voice acting is way better than the original cartoon. The fact that the cartoon could wring some pathos from Orko and Cringer is really saying something.

Unfortunately, and some fans may hate me, I think Teela didn't always come across as likable. It felt at times that she was a bit too snippy, kinda like Jessica Jones, but not always as endearing. Adam's father kinda sucks, too. I get he was grieving, but banishing Man-At-Arms is an awful move.

I loved how He-Man chose to stay in his Adam form when he was dead. It's a nice character moment.

That cliffhanger was pretty intense. If nothing else, it adds incentive to keep watching, not that I needed it.

 

[Last Spider]

It was hilarious that the after show started with Smith bragging about killing Adam twice then the Mattel TV exec saying it was love letter to the fans.

There’s only so much mileage they can get from big guy beats up on less powerful bad guy. That formula worked in the 80s. We’ve moved to the bad guys being much more powerful and good guys forming teams to beat them.


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This all just keeps sounding like excuses.
Because they don't need to rehash what the original show did, but at the same time that doesn't mean kill off Adam twice and put the focus on Teela after making her completely unlikable.

 

[Rick Jones]

Adam's father kinda sucks, too. I get he was grieving, but banishing Man-At-Arms is an awful move.

He was already being an unnecessary jerk before his son died and then goes on to being unreasoning after the son he trashed was killed. Duncan didn't put Adam in the line of fire or anything. Threatening him with execution was unnecessary. I thought it was hilarious when he would then charge Duncan's daughter with throwing him out until she not only trashes the king but instantly disowns her father as well.


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[Frontier]

I have to say whoever thought of casting Liam Cunningham as Man-at-Arms should get a raise because he does a phenomenal job! Especially introducing the setting through all those shots of everyone in their classic Mattel designs .

This show has an...interesting balance of tones to where it starts off as campy and pun-filled as the original show but then people start getting stabbed and the stakes get more serious...although I will say things were more consistent after the time-skip, but sometimes it feels like the show isn't quite sure what it's audience is .

That He-Man transformation sequence was too glorious to only use in one episode .

I feel kind of bad for Chris Wood. I really was happy for him being cast as Prince Adam/He-Man because I felt like this was a role that could regain him some rep in nerd culture given how controversial his Mon-El was in the Supergirl show...and he's dead by the end of the first episode, save for flashbacks, a fear vision of He-Man, and the final episode. Like, the worst part is he actually does a great job in the role, conveying the duality of Adam/He-Man like in the 2002 cartoon with the sincerity and integrity that define the character, and I wish we could get more of him. Maybe they will showcase him more in the second half because I don't think they'd have him forego paradise just to get killed again soon or without transforming into He-Man one last time, I don't think they'd do He-Man dirty like that, but I would love to see Wood play He-Man in the upcoming CG cartoon .

This show is somewhat infamous for the less than honest marketing, at least in terms of trailers and promotional art, although even just in the title alone...for a show titled "Masters of the Universe" there...really aren't a lot of the actual Masters of the Universe in it. Like, we've got Teela, Man-at-Arms, Roboto, Andra , and some former bad guys...but where's Ram-Man? Man-E Faces? Mekaneck? Stratos!? I mean, I'm not ruling out a big "bringing the band back together" moment in the second half but they didn't even show them in the big battle at the beginning or mention where everybody is .

As a fan of the 2002 cartoon...Cringer talking is weird .

I feel like Teela really overreacted to finding out about Adam being He-Man. Like, yeah, I can see why she would be angry that her father and best friend were keeping such a huge secret from her for so long but coming off He-Man sacrificing himself to save Eternia (at least as far as he was aware) it came off a bit in bad taste. I know she was distraught over his death but then she ends up not doing what Adam hoped she would until it was basically thrown in her face. I also didn't really care for her being all "anti-magic." If anything I can see her being angry but dedicating herself more to her work instead of just writing it all off and walking away .

They're dragging out the reveal that the Sorcereress is Teela's mother as long as they possibly can, huh ?

I haven't watched the 80's cartoon but I think Adam's mom knowing he's He-Man was hinted at in the 2002 cartoons? Or the writers implied it .

The time-skip redesigns that looked the best were the ones that barely changed anything in my opinion. Teela transformed into generic female merc #5 and when she fought her old self I was thinking I wanted to see that Teela again .

Kevin Conroy as Mer-Man works far more than it has any right too .

Orko is finally useful and they kill him off not long after. He doesn't even get to see Adam again. Poor guy .

Isn't Tri-Klops supposed to have eyebeams? I feel like those would have been pretty useful in some of the scenes he was in .

Moss-Man being voiced by OG!Skeletor is kind of amusing when you think of the fact that he's quickly killed off by Skeletor here and then ends up advising He-Man in the season finale .

Wasn't that Skeletor's panther in the Wild Hunt ?

I knew Skeletor was going to come back through the quest, but I thought Evil-Lynn was planning on it from the start, not unaware of it until he actually came back, although she played to type to the very end...no wonder she added "Evil" to her name .

Mark Hamill is basically playing the Skeleton King again. Even his souped up form with the Power of Grayskull looks like the Skeleton King .

 

[powerjake]

So is this show supposed to be a true direct sequel to the 80's cartoon series?.