"Star Wars: The Mandalorian (Disney+)" Season Two Talkback (Spoilers)

[khuddle]

It would be simple enough for The Mandalorian to make up yet another Jedi who survived Order 66. They don’t have to use Ezra, Cal, or Luke.


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I'm just BEGGING them not to use Ezra. Every other option is fine by me, but Ezra should be confined to Rebels, which was a kiddie show which I hardly consider canon. Trust me, most of the Mandalorian audience have no idea who Ezra is. He would be a horrible choice and would almost single-handedly ruin the show for me (almost like Season 8 of GOT ruined that entire series for me).

 

[reflection01]

Most of the audience didn’t know Ahsoka either. And Clone Wars is a kiddie show (more kiddie than Rebels in my opinion *roger roger*). That worked out just fine. Any Jedi who isn’t Luke is going to see pretty random so why not use a character who is established in canon?


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[Yojimbo]

Idk, they still brought in Bo and Ahsoka from the animated runs. Filoni is heavily involved in The Mandalorian. They name dropped Thrawn. They may not be done with bringing in others and we may see more in season 3. As for the final 2 of this season, nah. Focused on the main story of rescuing Grogu. Maybe an end tag teaser of someone in the season finale at best, imo.

Most of the audience didn’t know Ahsoka either. And Clone Wars is a kiddie show (more kiddie than Rebels in my opinion *roger roger*). That worked out just fine. Any Jedi who isn’t Luke is going to see pretty random so why not use a character who is established in canon?

This past May, he did say he was done portraying Luke. Although, he said he was retired from voicing Joker after the Arkham games, he's come back to the role numerous times.

 

[khuddle]

I doubt Ezra is as well known as Ahsoka. Clone Wars was a longer running series than Rebels, and in any case Ashoka appeared in both series. Ashoka is one of the few non-OT Star Wars characters who is enormously popular (along with Darth Maul).

As far as who gets to portray Luke, Sebastian Stan would make an pretty amazing 30-something Skywalker.

 

[Yojimbo]

Chapter 15: The Believer

To move against the Empire, the Mandalorian needs the help of an old enemy.

 

[Yojimbo]

Wow, that was surprisingly easy for Cara to go to the Karthon Chop Fields and take Mayfeld into her custody. New Republic really is not so organized yet. I'm not the biggest fan of Bill Burr but he was even better in this episode than last season and he totally stole the show. I laughed both times when he was relieved Boba wasn't Mando and when he pointed out he didn't get it and admits he never could see with the helmet on. lol. Mayfeld did pose a lot of interesting food for thought like helmet/face query or being able to get through a day and sleep. And of course, revealing the truth about himself. He was disillusioned about the Empire after "Operation Cinder" and the senselessness and guilt over the mass causalities on both sides. So much so, he shoots Hess, his old creep of a commander, at point blank! Then proving he really was a sharpshooter and firing on the Rhydonium, I cheered for that. And now a free man. A part of me was hoping he would go with them.

Also the mentioned campaign, Operation Cinder first appeared in the Shattered Empire comic and I believe factored into the Battlefront II video game. And its aftermath feeds into the origins of the First Order in the Unknown Regions.

But troubling info dump from Mayfeld when he mentioned the Imperial Remnant bases are set up and run by ex-Imperial Security Bureau. I remember that from Rogue One (Krennic was the director of a weapons research branch in the ISB). They were basically the Empire's secret police. Or how confident the commander was that the galaxy would eventually choose the "order" the Empire provided rather than the freedom brought on by the New Republic. So troubling. Definitely a theme echoed in a lot of media like Pierce and Hydra in Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

After Bo's revelation about his clan being zealots, it was still a shocker to see Din break his own creed to save Grogu but still a great reason. Perhaps the only reason he would. Posing as Stormtrooper then revealing his face. Whew. And of course the insanity of them betting bailed out by Tie fighters then being saluted and cheered by Stormtroopers...just having the POV flipped to the bad guys. Wild.

Loved the action set piece of having to deliver volatile materials to the secret base while fending off local pirates without the Mandalorian armor. And the Rhydonium – or basically starship fuel - something from the Clone Wars and Rebels but also came up in Force Awakens on Jakku.

And wow, what a treat, the interior of Slave 1. Boba's use of the seismic charge on the Tie fighters was a neat callback to Episode II when Jango used one to try and lose Obi Wan in an asteroid field.

The ending was pretty clutch. Using Gideon's own words from last season against him in setting up the season finale next week. Great penultimate episode!

 

[Fone Bone]

The Mandalorian "Chapter 15 "The Believer"

That was absolute dynamite. This was a turning point. I see the show entirely differently after seeing this. Before this episode I believed The Mandalorian to be a great Star Wars TV show. Now I believe it is a great TV show period. It's transcended and even surpassed the franchise with that.

One of the reasons I disliked Lucas' Star Wars tenure was its black and white view of morality, mostly preached by characters who behaved hypocritically or entirely against the values they were trying to sell to their gullible pupils. It enraged me at various points, and that's why I responded to the more nuanced Sequel Trilogy far more positively than most other Star Wars viewers. I can't even call myself a fan back then, because I didn't actually LIKE the franchise too much until The Force Awakens.

But Mayfeld was a pretty despicable character in his first appearance. I liked him questioning the logic here of when it's okay for Mando to remove his helmet. And when Mando uncovers his face in pure desperation I am very rewarded that Mayfeld doesn't sort of psychologically hold it over his head. He tells him it never happened and he'll forget about it.

I am very well aware and reminded how forcefully Mando believes in not only never removing the armor, but never revealing his face either. It is his most sacred creed, and what he did brought great private shame to him. Mayfeld saying "You did what you had to do," has extra resonance because of Mando's message to Gideon about how much the Child means to him. He literally did the last thing in the world he ever wanted to do to save Grogu. And I love and admire him for it.

That fight on the caravan was bananas, and I can't imagine how they pulled something like that off, much less in the middle of a global pandemic. That knocked my socks off.

Speaking of which, this is the first time I have ever been happy to see Empire fighters and Stormtroopers. The episode sort of reveled in how unusual it was for the audience to feel like they were saving the day.

The creepy Southern General's stuff with Mayfeld was great because it again explored issues of right and wrong, and the morality of war when the innocent civilians all around the fighters suffer for it. And Mayfeld has unforeseen nuance and nobility for arguing what he does, with who, and when he does it. Shooting him was the only way that conversation SHOULD have ended, and I think it took everyone else by such surprise they weren't even sure how to respond until it was too late. Which is when Mando and Mayfeld shot 'em all.

This is the first episode in which the Child doesn't appear. It's very strange that this is also the best episode so far since he is arguably the best part of the show.

Anyone who tells me Disney ruined Star Wars just does not have credibility with me. This show is amazing and I think it's entirely consistent with the kinds of messages the Sequel Trilogy was sending. I love it very much and I feel like that was the best piece of television I've seen in awhile. *****.

 

[reflection01]

I wonder if they’ll address that those clearly weren’t pirates. Pirates don’t blow up something valuable. And they certainly aren’t willing to sacrifice themselves to destroy it.


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[Yojimbo]

Chapter 16: The Rescue

The Mandalorian and his allies attempt a daring rescue.

 

[khuddle]

Sebastian Stan or De-aged Mark Hamill? Really doesn't matter to me, so long as it was Luke, and NOT Ezra.

 

[Yojimbo]

Dr. Pershing confirms he's a cloner. An Imperial pilot mouths off about Alderaan getting blown up by the Death Star and doesn't live long. I guess he figured he was dead, might as well tick off Cara Dune and rub salt in the wound calling the Rebels the terrorists for killing millions aboard the Death Stars.

Loved to see the return of Bo-Katan and Koska. Loved the scuffle between Koska and Boba. Pretty even though she definitely got the drop on him more than a few times. Makes sense Bo-Katan wouldn't drop the chance to get the Darksaber, Moff, and a cruiser but she still tried to play it cool, heh. Interesting she immediately recognized he was a Jango clone, likely a nod to Clone Wars and such.

Gutsy move to pilot the ship right into the cruiser while the Tie fighters are trying to launch. And like Pershing and everyone else highlighted, pretty easy moving through the cruiser. Mando vs. the one Dark Trooper. Woof. That was lucky they had the weakspot at the 'throat' area. All those punches to the helmet, don't care that was Beskar, that was a tough spot. Venting the rest into space would have been the deal but they were droids not organics, so totally saw them coming back later.

Figures Gideon went to the brig to give Bo-Katan a bitter victory. Now she can't have the Darksaber. But they have Gideon alive, Pershing alive (left in the ship?), a cruiser, and Din might help her try to take back Mandalore after all in season 3. And like we all predicted, Din used the Beskar weapon to fight Gideon. Hmm, and Gideon let it know he had Grogu's blood and confirmed his Force-sensitive nature would be a key to restore "order" to the Galaxy. Hmm. So guess Grogu would have been used for Palpatine's strandcast lab, and Din rescuing Grogu set the program back a few decades. Which would explain why Palpatine's clone son was a 'Force dud' and didn't turn out but had a super powerful daughter. Or why Snoke looked like why he did. Or did Gideon manage to send the blood samples off before Mando and co. arrived?

De-aged Mark Hamill (say what you will about how that turned out) and stand-in Max Lloyd-Jones as Luke post ROTJ arrives and makes the Dark Troopers look pretty stupid after all the build up of their menace, lmao. Once I saw that green lightsaber, ho ho, what a treat. I admit I was wrong in discounting Luke could appear. Hot damn, that was an amazing sequence!! Nice touch with Grogu feeling the connection to Luke. Loved the sad farewell was capped with Din showing his face to Grogu. And R2-D2! There to lighten things up.

And the end credits teaser, Book of Boba Fett series coming next December. And he take over Hutt's hideout from Fortuna who gained a few. Oh yeah, he's gonna make a move for the underworld. Wow, we get Mando Season 3 and Boba in the same month?! What a freakin' treat. Just gotta be patient now.

 

[Fone Bone]

The Mandolorian "The Rescue"

That was a VERY well-kept secret from Disney. And I'll tell you why it probably worked. There was SO much Star Wars news coming out from the Disney+ up-front this week that sneaking in Mark Hamill must have been SUPER easy to do under the radar. Hamill being seen schmoozing around the studio would shock no-one.

Luke Skywalker is one of the two iconic roles Hamill routinely swears he has retired from. And just as he keeps getting sucked back in the Joker anyways, I think what Hamill always actually needs and wants is a good excuse. This show gave him a great one.

The end of Boba Fett ascending Jabba's throne was interesting, but I'm not sure it can sustain an entire series. We'll see.

Good thing he and Luke missed each other, isn't it? He would NOT have been happy to see him.

The Darktrooper Droids have certainly come a long way since the "Roger Roger" Battle Droids. Seeing "The Jedi" take them out so effortlessly was great, because it was the biggest hint it was Luke. And if there is one downside to Luke's tenure as a Jedi in Star Wars is that we rarely saw him use his skills at his peak. And it was hinted in The Last Jedi he became crazy scary. I liked actually being able to see him in his prime here kicking butt and chewing bubblegum.

Mando taking off his helmet makes me wonder where the series will go from here, especially if the Child IS on an extended leave from the show. They might have to change the entire premise.

And I don't begrudge the producers for making Mando undo his code so easily. This is fiction, specifically fiction made for the screen. Whether it's in character or not, the audience deserves to be able to read and understand his emotions as he says goodbye to the Child. Whether it's bad writing for the show or the character doesn't matter. I like that Favreau KNEW we needed to see his face, and gave it to us, no matter the consequences. I have always believed emotional character resonance is far more important that sticking compulsively to a story canon, especially to its detriment. I'm glad this show knew when to give us the drama.

Gideon is such an irredeemable rat for attempting to kill Mando when he did after declaring peace. Mando "winning" the Dark Saber is kind of annoying. Because you know this specific part of the lore was inspired by the Elder Wand from Harry Potter. I love that Harry Potter essentially killed Voldemort by using legalese and technicalities against him. But it's a little bit more annoying that this show is clearly gonna make that an actual PLOT that we have to sit with and think about. The last thing J.K Rowling wanted the reader to do was think too hard about the rules of the Elder Wand. I sincerely believe this show is going to regret asking us to actually do that for this show's version of it. My initial verdict of seeing Bo Katan's struggle? It's stupid and pointless already, and needlessly complicated, and seems to be the kind of thing only believed in by chumps. Which is why you reveal the legal shenanigans of the Elder Wand at the very end of the book, where the reader won't actually bother to think about it or care. This idea actually bothers me already. A lot.

The show has done better episodes, but I will give the episode five stars for managing to keep Luke a secret. It's the least I can do to show my support at the lack of spoilers Disney has allowed to get out. Truly impressive stuff. *****.

 

[Yojimbo]

The end of Boba Fett ascending Jabba's throne was interesting, but I'm not sure it can sustain an entire series. We'll see.

I don't think they exactly confirmed it is a series yet. Slight chance it could be smaller amount of episodes like mini-series/limited series or a just a one time special even.

And if there is one downside to Luke's tenure as a Jedi in Star Wars is that we rarely saw him use his skills at his peak. And it was hinted in The Last Jedi he became crazy scary. I liked actually being able to see him in his prime here kicking butt and chewing bubblegum.

Good point. I've also seen comments that it parallels when Darth Vader tore through the rebels at the end of Rogue One. It does look like Luke tearing through the Dark Troopers was doubled as a nod to that.

Mando taking off his helmet makes me wonder where the series will go from here, especially if the Child IS on an extended leave from the show. They might have to change the entire premise.

Well, season 1 and season 2 were like Book 1: The Quest. Favreau could have already worked out a rough outline of the whole series and already knows what 'Book 2' is, like shifting from the Western theme to a War theme in trying to take back Mandalore. Or does Mando care really? He could as easily go back to bounty hunting and finding/confronting his clan.

But yeah, given how super popular Grogu became, he might still have a role to play. However, no way they can keep doing de-age Hamill face on stand in for a whole season. Nor keep him wearing his black cloak over his head the whole season either. Now that Grogu is with Luke, doubtful whoever Gideon may have been working with would try to kidnap him.

Or will there be a focus on what ISB secrets the New Republic wants from Gideon, will he spill and will that will be a lead-in to the next arc?

Gideon is such an irredeemable rat for attempting to kill Mando when he did after declaring peace. Mando "winning" the Dark Saber is kind of annoying. Because you know this specific part of the lore was inspired by the Elder Wand from Harry Potter. I love that Harry Potter essentially killed Voldemort by using legalese and technicalities against him. But it's a little bit more annoying that this show is clearly gonna make that an actual PLOT that we have to sit with and think about. The last thing J.K Rowling wanted the reader to do was think too hard about the rules of the Elder Wand. I sincerely believe this show is going to regret asking us to actually do that for this show's version of it. My initial verdict of seeing Bo Katan's struggle? It's stupid and pointless already, and needlessly complicated, and seems to be the kind of thing only believed in by chumps. Which is why you reveal the legal shenanigans of the Elder Wand at the very end of the book, where the reader won't actually bother to think about it or care. This idea actually bothers me already. A lot.

Yeah, I couldn't help but chuckle at Mando clearly not giving a damn - 'just take it,', 'fine, I yield' - not knowing the implications of him defeating Gideon. But it's probably the one annoying thing to leave unresolved in this season finale. Even if they do fight, Bo-Katan knows Din won't fight for real so it'd by pyrrhic.

 

[reflection01]

The beauty of Grogu is at any point they could advance the timeline a few hundred years to give us a story involving teen Grogu or young adult Grogu or prime Grogu.

If they can figure out how to turn this into Luke vs the remnants of the Empire, oh man.


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[khuddle]

The beauty of Grogu is at any point they could advance the timeline a few hundred years to give us a story involving teen Grogu or young adult Grogu or prime Grogu.

If they can figure out how to turn this into Luke vs the remnants of the Empire, oh man.


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1. With Sebastian Stan as Luke in his prime.

2. The remnants of the Empire should include some force-user -- not necessarily a Sith, but someone who
could stand toe to toe with Luke.

 

[Yojimbo]

1. With Sebastian Stan as Luke in his prime.

2. The remnants of the Empire should include some force-user -- not necessarily a Sith, but someone who
could stand toe to toe with Luke.

1. Interesting casting. Has he expressed interest? I think I could seem him as Luke.

2. Hmm. But the Inquisitors are all dead. I guess there's always the Knights of Ren? I think I remember reading Filoni almost introduced Starkiller into the official canon by making him one of the Inquistors but didn't.

EDIT: Just rewatched it. Ah there was totally a "macklunkey" in the Boba teaser. lmao!

 

[Frontier]

It's kind of amazing that everyone was predicting somebody would die but no named characters actually bought it...well, except Bib Fortuna .

That guy at the beginning was all "there were good people on the Death Star too!" although he survived that only to basically walk face-first into a blaster from an Alderaan survivor. Should've known better. It would've been kind of hilarious if he somehow survived both Death Stars only to die like that .

I see Boba is still testy about the whole "clone" thing. With the amount of Clone Troopers Bo has dealt with, she probably does easily recognize that voice...and Boba still doesn't give a hoot about Mandalore .

I only realized halfway through the episode that the second squad was all women. Kind of neat, especially since it was fairly low-key .

So are they going to use Grogu's blood to make Snoke? Seems like Gideon is part of the faction building into the First Order .

I guess Gideon couldn't resist trying out the Darksaber on Din even though Din seemed completely willing to let him go. Given he's basically cosplaying as Darth Vader, he probably couldn't help himself .

When the Darktroopers were about to break in, I thought to myself that the only way they were going to get out of there was for whatever Jedi Grogu summoned to show up and fight them...and then the X-Wing showed up. I admit I was still kind of in denial as to who it could be until I saw the robes, glove, and green lightsaber and realized it was Luke mother-flippin' Skywalker cutting through Darktroopers like they were B1 Battle Droids. Like his father before him, Luke got his own hallway scene, and it was glorious .

The CG Luke was kind of weird, but I understand they still wanted it to basically be Mark Hamill as Luke and show him exactly how he should look in his prime, even if it was kind of off. I wonder if we'll see them do this again with established characters ?.

I wasn't expecting R2 to show up, but it was great to see him too. The meeting of the mascots with R2 and Grogu was super cute. R2 seemed really happy to see him, was it because Grogu reminded him of Yoda or did R2 remember him from the temple ?

I have to imagine how awkward it would've been if Boba had stuck around and seen Luke show up .

I was happy to see Mando break his vow to let Grogu see his face. The child got to finally see his father's face before going off to train .

It'll be interesting to see where things go from here. Din and Bo-Katan need to settle the Darksaber dispute and the fate of Mandalore, and we have Luke training Grogu. I wonder if they'll time-skip to some degree to the point where Luke feels comfortable enough with Grogu's training to send him back to Din (and to make sure he avoids what happens to Luke's school). Is Grogu Luke's first official apprentice, not Ben? It's kind of funny that his first apprentice is a baby version of his master .

Really curious to see exactly what the "Book of Boba Fett" is and what Boba is going to do now that he seems to be moving into Jabb's territory with Fennec .

 

[Yojimbo]

So are they going to use Grogu's blood to make Snoke? Seems like Gideon is part of the faction building into the First Order .

Seems like it. I mean once he realized it was Luke coming, his whole demeanor changed. He tried to kill Grogu and himself.

The CG Luke was kind of weird, but I understand they still wanted it to basically be Mark Hamill as Luke and show him exactly how he should look in his prime, even if it was kind of off. I wonder if we'll see them do this again with established characters ?.

Not that I think about it, I wonder if they considered bringing in Hamill and de-aging like they did with Michael Douglas in Ant-Man or perhaps they didn't want to risk any covid stuff bringing him to the set and compromised with a stand-in and adding in his face -- In Ant-Man & The Wasp, Lawrence Fishbourne's seemed to work better because his son resembled him so well.

I wasn't expecting R2 to show up, but it was great to see him too. The meeting of the mascots with R2 and Grogu was super cute. R2 seemed really happy to see him, was it because Grogu reminded him of Yoda or did R2 remember him from the temple ?

I think R2-D2 is just a really gregarious bot.

Din and Bo-Katan need to settle the Darksaber dispute

Shotgun wedding!

I wonder if they'll time-skip to some degree to the point where Luke feels comfortable enough with Grogu's training to send him back to Din (and to make sure he avoids what happens to Luke's school). Is Grogu Luke's first official apprentice, not Ben? It's kind of funny that his first apprentice is a baby version of his master .

Perhaps because and I may be wrong but didn't they state Luke restarted the Jedi Order in 15 ABY, which is around 6 years after this series? I a little interested in where Luke will train Grogu - Tattoine, Dagobah, Coruscant, where he built his new temple eventually? I'm curious to see how far into his journey Luke was in studying the Force and finding artifacts that was mentioned in the sequel trilogy. Because I believe he was hesitant to take on Ben as an apprentice.

 

[Frontier]

Perhaps because and I may be wrong but didn't they state Luke restarted the Jedi Order in 15 ABY, which is around 6 years after this series? I a little interested in where Luke will train Grogu - Tattoine, Dagobah, Coruscant, where he built his new temple eventually? I'm curious to see how far into his journey Luke was in studying the Force and finding artifacts that was mentioned in the sequel trilogy. Because I believe he was hesitant to take on Ben as an apprentice.

I think Grogu will definitely be gone before Luke starts his school and before Ben goes all Kylo...

 

[BigFatHairyDeal]

Finally got around to watching season 2. The finale was obviously a lot of fun, but it feels bittersweet because I just don't like the Disney trilogy and whatever fun could've been had between Luke and Baby Yoda (not calling him Grogu; I still call them the Washington Bullets and New Jersey Nets!) is going to lead to the Disney Star Wars films. Also, I never really bought into Boba Fett's hype throughout the decades. A bit disappointed to hear that BoBF is getting priority over the Mandalorian's next season.