The portrayal of black people in anime

[Animelee]

It probably wasn't intentional, but this statement really says a lot about Japanese racial identity. Japan is full of Japanese people, who are very much "people of color." They've just been trying for 150 years to pretend they're white.

Other than Michael Jackson, and Johnny Depp in the new Charlie and the Chocolate Factory poster, is anyone truly white?

I mean, when saying "white", you're talking about people of recent European decent, right? To me, people of recent European decent look pink or peach.

Same with "black" people. I've never seen anyone with actual black skin -- they would die of rickets because of a lack of vitamin D. The darkest person I've seen is like, a mahogany brown, that's it. Even some of the darkest people in mid-Africa aren't actually black, but dark brown...

Indian/Pakistani/East Indian: ??? Nothing to see here either.

Mahajarama from Rockman EXE/Axess/Stream. Of course, he dresses up in Hindu monk clothing, and he owns a curry shop... I hate stereotypes.

 

[Funkatron]

LOL Ain't it the truth. I've seen very few Japanese people in Anime...even in the ones about ancient Japan or something.

 

[Ben]

I mean, when saying "white", you're talking about people of recent European decent, right? To me, people of recent European decent look pink or peach.

Recent? I'm thirteenth-generation American and I'm still pretty damn "pink."

 

[lostrune]

I was talking to a black expat on a train last year (married to a Japanese woman), and he was telling me about how this gang of teenagers kept stealing bikes in his neighborhood, and when he finally got fed up with it and went out to where they were gathering to yell at them they got really freaked out and never came near his house again. I guess stereotypes have their useful side sometimes!

"If you are scouted, please call station staff or the police."
-- A frequent announcement at JR Hakata Station in Fukuoka Prefecture, warning young women against sex industry recruiters. (Asahi Shimbun)

What's the name of this "art film"? I'd like to watch it for it sounds interesting. I like watching those kyakuhiku apply their trade. It's fun to see who is interested and who is not.

A guy tried to pick up my wife but I don't know if he was just a regular guy or a kyukuhiku. My wife and I came out of the turnstile, her first. There was a bit of room between us and before I knew it some guy got between us real fast and started talking to her. My Japanese is horendous and I couldn't hear a thing any way with all the noise. He asked my wife if she "has free time" which she replied she is with her husband. He asked where and she said "right beside you". This guy turned and looked at me {I'm black}, his face went totally limp in a nano-second and did the quickest about face I'd ever seen. All the time I thought he was asking my wife if she knew the time.

 

[MonkeyFunk]

I figured Nadia was Minoan.

 

[KarlOlson]

Oh, fun old thread here.

Is the portrayal of people of African decent perfect in anime? No. There are some pretty nice examples of how to do it right, and some shining examples of how to do it wrong. Not all that surprising though from a culture that's been described as "xenophobic" by more people than I can count. However, I know a lot of African-American anime fans, some of which are the oldest skool fans out there, some of which are part of the new generation like myself, so clearly, 50/50 hit/miss rating aside, obviously some African-American people have gotten over it. Additionally, inspite of the lack of a real political-correctness revolution in Japan, the portrayals have been getting better over time, not worse.

Case in Point: As campy as the character that the Big Shot guy played on his TV show was, his actual backstory was very human and, oh my god, real and unstereotyped. The Blaxploitation stuff in "Mushroom Samba" was in reference to films like "Shaft" and "Dolomite", rather than lazy use of a dated stereotype. It's no different to Tarentino's referencing of Blaxploitation films. Hell, Cowboy Bebop may be the pinnacle of accurately depicting race and ethnicity of any animated work to date, because it shows a truely diverse range of peoples and cultures, and depicts them with an aggressive realism when they aren't trying to make some coy, witty reference to an old movie.

Is the portrayal of African decent perfect in American animation? No, and not even in the modern works that often IMHO. It's basically been progressive shifts in the stereotype used. If it's not blackface, it's faux-ghetto. If it's not Blaxploitation in a non-ironic context, it's the generic superhero "badass." If not all that, then it's the bland, Bill Cosby-esque generic positive stereotype (Dr. Hibbard past point of parody into mediocrity a long time ago.) Really, the Boondocks may be the first cartoon in America to even attempt to respectfully, yet honestly depict African-Americans in a long time. Even then, Riley's a stereotype, Huey's a stereotype, Caesar's a stereotype, and well, every one in the Boondocks' cast is more a catagory than a character these days. However, that's a lot better than Song of the South, which oddly enough is arguably not that much worse than Da' Boom Crew. Both have a failure in writing real characters. Boondocks is atleast in some position to break out of that, if McGruder's willing to write something with depth, not shallow catagories.

Meanwhile, I would argue that a lot of anime don't even properly catch the actual flavor of the Japanese people and culture. Anime like Windy Tales, NieA_7, Black Heaven, Saikano, KoiKaze, Paranoia Agent, Voices of A Distant Star and the recently released Beck are rarities because they don't particularly BS about what life is like in Japan, they don't overspin how Japanese people actually look and act and they honestly put the culture and day-to-day life into a critical perspective compared to a lot of series. So, the fact that most studios are over-stylizing their work, and are, as such, perhaps misreprasenting their own culture, surroundings and people in a lot of shows, that all should clue folks in that most racial characterization in anime should probably be taken with a grain of salt, except for when it is done being accurately. Otherwise, it's likely the same artistic licence they take with their own culture and people; it's a cartoon, not reality.

Of course, on the other hand, it's animation, so it's going to be stylized no matter what anyway. They don't call it "sequential ART" for nothing; it's a series of stylized depictions, and as such, accuracy will always be an issue if you really want to nit-pick. You want a truely realistic depiction of someone of your culture and/or race? Watch a good documentary about your culture and/or race. Fictional film/media will always have some spin. Hell, that's part of why people watch films, particularly animation: escapism. People don't want to watch a documentary about hard life in the ghetto, or the trailer park, or suburbs, or whatever. People would like to forget for twenty two minutes that they are crammed on to a subway/highway/bus/whatever every morning to get to work/school, and that applies whether you're in Tokyo or NYC or anywhere, and certainly regardless of your race and ethnicity.

When I rode the train from College Park down to DC so I could catch flight back home after Otakon, I realized that whether you're a kid from the suburbs like me who drives/buses to school, or whether you're a kid from the projects who takes the subway to school, we're dealing with a lot of the same crap. I'm sure either way, it's nice to able to turn on some show that doesn't brutally depict life, but stylizes it. It's nice when that stylization is flattering, witty and intelligent, but hey, shows like Family Guy depict middle-American caucasian males like myself as very stupid and bigotted, but I laugh at it anyway, because atleast it usually has the witty and intelligent part; it's skewing the stereotype, not celebrating. Meanwhile, Chris Rock has no problem pointing that certain people of his race are doing things he doesn't agree with whatsoever, but the NAACP isn't complaining about his comedic tirades on said subject, and plenty of people of all races enjoy his stand up routines. It's a case of positivity, humor and wit through the skewing of stereotypes. A lot of humor can come out of the stereotype if you're not celebrating it.

Is stereotype of any sort always used intelligently to create humor or dramatic/social commentary? No. Are we way farther than we we're, both in the US and Japan, when it comes to quality of depiction of life in general (let alone of races and cultures,) and when it comes to using stereotypes in a way that isn't negative? Yes, so we just have to wait it out, and really if you want to see change, you've got contribute to the industry yourself somehow. Either way, we're all in this together, regardless of animation origin and personal origin. I think everyone like to see some realistic, diginified characterization of their "people", rather stereotypes that are often at best just satirical-twists on offensive stereotypes, and at worst, just plain bigotted and/or ignorant. However, if you want it, you have to do what you can to make it happen.

I certainly would like to see a male-lead who wears classes who isn't a perv, loser, haXor, math-genius, science-genius, boy-genius, unathletic, unartistic and/or harem owner, but instead a complex character who isn't a stereotype. I know that'll happen faster if I get involved with the industry (Pity that I'm better at speechifying than actual writing. )

Ok. I'm spent. Forever.


PS - Nadia Race Spoiler:

Spoiler

Nadia's a Space Alien BTW. Not even human. Her alien people created us humans, apparently.

 

[Ben]

"If you are scouted, please call station staff or the police."
-- A frequent announcement at JR Hakata Station in Fukuoka Prefecture, warning young women against sex industry recruiters. (Asahi Shimbun)

What's the name of this "art film"? I'd like to watch it for it sounds interesting. I like watching those kyakuhiku apply their trade. It's fun to see who is interested and who is not.

A guy tried to pick up my wife but I don't know if he was just a regular guy or a kyukuhiku. My wife and I came out of the turnstile, her first. There was a bit of room between us and before I knew it some guy got between us real fast and started talking to her. My Japanese is horendous and I couldn't hear a thing any way with all the noise. He asked my wife if she "has free time" which she replied she is with her husband. He asked where and she said "right beside you". This guy turned and looked at me {I'm black}, his face went totally limp in a nano-second and did the quickest about face I'd ever seen. All the time I thought he was asking my wife if she knew the time.

That is a great story. It's such a Clockwork Orange-ish effect. I wonder if anyone's done an organized study.

 

[AstroNerdBoy]

Old topic, but I'll throw in my 2-cents...

You can find examples of blacks in ultra-stereotypes in some anime, but you can find some good blacks too.

However, you'll find that it isn't just blacks who get this kind of treatment. Americans as a whole do as well. American characters are often portrayed as loud, obnoxious, or rude. Tina in "Ai Yori Aosho" fits the first two items.

"You're Under Arrest in America" would have you believe that the cops in L.A. brandish weapons at the drop of a hat. They also show cops as desperate to kill people and who have access to all kinds of military-style weapons including rockets! Yet this is how the Japanese see our law enforcement throughout ALL of America.

The American military is either portrayed in a less than flattering light or ignored. If Japan ever got attacked, our military would be there fighting (and even dying) along side our Japanese allies. In anime, it is often the U.N. who takes this role.

These are just brief items. Having lived in Japan, I love the country and the people. On one hand, they do like to embrace western things. Back before their economy went in the tank (when they were "buying the US"), there were quite a few Japanese kids who paid tons of money to get their hair curled so they could wear high top fades. They liked rap.

On the other hand, Japan does have a tendency to have racist fears as well. I saw bars with "no gaijin" (no foreigners) on the door. I saw some with "no blacks" and even one with "no whites". Some gaijin trashed an onsen (hot springs) resort, so the owner banned all gaijin. Some people I've known have had to pay more money as deposit for renting an apartment than a Japanese person would.

So I wouldn't lose any sleep over how Americans, black or white, are portrayed in anime.

 

[Kenshin5000]

I certainly would like to see a male-lead who wears classes who isn't a perv, loser, haXor, math-genius, science-genius, boy-genius, unathletic, unartistic and/or harem owner, but instead a complex character who isn't a stereotype. I know that'll happen faster if I get involved with the industry (Pity that I'm better at speechifying than actual writing. )

Doesn't the main male character of Saikano fall (or, in this case, doesn't fall) into those categories? Seems like it judging from the episodes I've seen.

 

[Dudley]

Theres also a Black person in Laguna's group in FF 8.

*EDIT*

Well, I stand corrected.

 

[J. B. Warner]

Old topic, but I'll throw in my 2-cents...

You can find examples of blacks in ultra-stereotypes in some anime, but you can find some good blacks too.

However, you'll find that it isn't just blacks who get this kind of treatment. Americans as a whole do as well. American characters are often portrayed as loud, obnoxious, or rude. Tina in "Ai Yori Aosho" fits the first two items.

"You're Under Arrest in America" would have you believe that the cops in L.A. brandish weapons at the drop of a hat. They also show cops as desperate to kill people and who have access to all kinds of military-style weapons including rockets! Yet this is how the Japanese see our law enforcement throughout ALL of America.

The American military is either portrayed in a less than flattering light or ignored. If Japan ever got attacked, our military would be there fighting (and even dying) along side our Japanese allies. In anime, it is often the U.N. who takes this role.

These are just brief items. Having lived in Japan, I love the country and the people. On one hand, they do like to embrace western things. Back before their economy went in the tank (when they were "buying the US"), there were quite a few Japanese kids who paid tons of money to get their hair curled so they could wear high top fades. They liked rap.

On the other hand, Japan does have a tendency to have racist fears as well. I saw bars with "no gaijin" (no foreigners) on the door. I saw some with "no blacks" and even one with "no whites". Some gaijin trashed an onsen (hot springs) resort, so the owner banned all gaijin. Some people I've known have had to pay more money as deposit for renting an apartment than a Japanese person would.

So I wouldn't lose any sleep over how Americans, black or white, are portrayed in anime.

Oh, thank God, I thought I was going over the top with my "Love Hina" movie, but it's child's play compared to this.

 

[Peter Paltridge]

The American military is either portrayed in a less than flattering light or ignored. If Japan ever got attacked, our military would be there fighting (and even dying) along side our Japanese allies. In anime, it is often the U.N. who takes this role.

Well, we did blow them up.

 

[Serena S.]

With the exeption of a hand full of anime like haragedon,robotech,and 8th man after, most anime portray blacks in a negative light. In a lot ofanime, we are usualy drawn in the insulting racist characature (very black skin with bigpinklips),that was very comon in the first half of the 20th century in america. We are also often portrayed as criminals or boxers in a lot of anime,manga, and video games. I for one am tired of this crap. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge anime fan and I also understand that a lot of anime,manga,and video game creators may have limited knowledge and information about the history of african americans and our strugle for racial equality. I also realize, that they may not know that certain images are offensive to us, and that most of their knowledge about us come from movies. I just wish there were more possative portrayals of african americans (and africans in general) in anime. You don't know how PO'ed I get, when I see characters like comander black from dragonball or mr. popo (is he suposed to be a black man) from DBZ.

Am I being to sensitive? Are there a lot more possitive and non-stereotypical portrayals of blacks in anime,manga,and japanese video games then what I named above? I would appreciate all your coments, and please folks, lets keep this discussion civil.

I know exactly how you feeling. Everytime I look at an amime show they us lookin' ugly as hell then they have the nerve to have at least show one black person in the crowd or show and the rest either looks Japanese or white (Not trying to sound racists or anything just they the facts.) And every time I see something like that in anime (crowd full of "Japanese" or white people) I would say, "Where the black people at?" Not to be hateful or anything, but anytime I see a anime or cartoon that us black people last or evil is sort of racist to me (opinion now!) Not trying to get off topic but lets say for instance, ummm..... Kids Next Door. Why number 5 gotta be last; How come she can't be number 1? (opinion now!) And hell I don't know if Mr. Popo or Sagat suppose to black or a different culture. Sagat looks like his black or mixed. At least in DBZ, they gave us a smart, black person. Cyborg is about the only black person I know that win and whup other people asses. But you sort of can't blame the japanese people for making the black character criminals, they think of us as they see us on T.V. and mostly we are either geting arrested or "abused." Sometimes I wonder why black people are like that. But I'm sure they don't mean it in a bad way. One day maybe, they see us more then criminals and draw more than just one black person in the show and let us talk normal instead of slang or remedial ( For instance, Killa in DBZ) and they'll let us be first sometimes and win at lot in situations!

 

[RAINMAN]

Has anyone bough up strom from 90`s x-men show. She was handel well and just as good like her comic alter ego. She was second in commmand of the team, she also have a fear of close in places that she had to deal whit in some ep`s and she so woried about her mutian powers that if she ever lost control she may kill someone. Sadlly you don`t see this in the movie or evo version of her char.

 

[KarlOlson]

Doesn't the main male character of Saikano fall (or, in this case, doesn't fall) into those categories? Seems like it judging from the episodes I've seen.

Technically he doesn't. However, he's an exemption (much like non-stereotyped protrayals, of well, almost any group if you really want to be grouchy about it.)

Has anyone bough up strom from 90`s x-men show. She was handel well and just as good like her comic alter ego. She was second in commmand of the team, she also have a fear of close in places that she had to deal whit in some ep`s and she so woried about her mutian powers that if she ever lost control she may kill someone. Sadlly you don`t see this in the movie or evo version of her char.

Yes. Read the thread.

 

[Bunai]

well pretty much everyone said what is said ^^
but i wanna type too XD and babble inconsistently...you might not want to quote me on anything ^^

Japan...Europe...overseas. In general, has no real outlook on America and Americans. I swear, half the things (practically all) the things they think they know about us, they get from TV!
I remember reading an article...I think I was in the 10th grade. This Russian girl came to my town and stated in the newspaper "I thought Americans acted like the people on Jerry Springer, but I was wrong" ...oyi
Yet they call Americans ignorant, stupid, and rude. And the only thing they go by is TV and movies! Its not a documentary or a guide to America! Its fictional entertainment.

American characters as a whole are not portrayed to a certain liking.
Pretty much the character is ALWAYS: Blonde, Blue eyed, Bigboobed/
Muscled, Loud, Large nose and Impatient. That's the only thing they seem to go by and you can pick out which character is suppose to be American...I guess so Japanese can tell I don kno. And the character is scripted to TRY and speak English and pronounce Japanese words wrong.
Chinese characters...now this one bugs me. Why is it that every time you see a character from China/HongKong, they always Wear an oriental dress or top, and silk shoes they're eyes are always thin and their hair only ranges in dark colors-with a bowl cut, bun or two buns. They have bad attitudes and know kung fu (yeah yeah i know i know, same thing from america but this is Japan anime we're typing about). Last time I looked people in HongKong wear jeans and tshirts.
How come the Japanese characters aren't drawn wearing kimonos all the time? Why are Japanese charas hair color range from anything? Why the constantly small nearly there noses? Why are Japanese charas eyes drawn so large, yet American, British, and Chinese charas have thin eyes most of the time?

Especially that...the eyes. you'd expect a lot of American charas to have eyes as large or Japanese characters...it would just make more sense


One thing Japan needs to brake away from in Anime and Games, for black or white characters is the Boxing, Wrestle, Basketball, Football etc etc...
Nice trying to pay homage to what a number of Americans like...but we do like other things. You can barely find a fighting game from Japan that doesn't have at least one Wrestle.
Then theres the game Bust a Groove/Move. A character called Hamm originally had pink lips but when the game was released here, it was shaded over as one color. And he eats hambugers...

Really depends on what you are reading or watching and the Artist behind it.
Megami has a Chinese chara...who is tanned and blonde, but wears a Chinese dress...while the Japanese charas have their uniforms.
Compared to manga and anime made in the 80's and back, there have been changes.
But negro charas don't need afros just to let you know they are black.

To basically bunch it up. Japan just doesn't have a lot of material to go on, they use whats in front of them. There are quite a few that go out of their way to get cultural references for their projects while others just go by what they saw briefly.

Oh yeah the Utena thing. People in Japan actually had a problem with Anthy and Utena being together. Calls came in to complain that Utena (supposed Japanese pink haired blue girl) should not be in a relationship with Anthy (dark skinned purple haired green eyed girl). I'm surprised. They dub her black and have no issue with a soft homo-erotic theme...only her skin color. I guess Japans view on interracial dating is deep seeded.

And ummm 'I think' Mr Popo is suppose to be Indian (India sense). His look has something to do with the drawings they do.

I found this quote and to quote from another forum interesting...and funny

Dejiko
A quote from an America-born webshop operator who has been discriminated against countless times while doing business in Japan:

You see, we're foreigners. This automatically makes us part dog, which means we are disrespectful and don't deserve to be treated like a fellow Japanese, the only legitimate race. In Japan, we're cute and comical to watch, but like a kawaii expensive dog, we're not allowed in the house...

Sums it up quite 'nicely'

 

[Ray Pointer]

Regarding the perception of negative balck images in Anime, first I was not aware of any, since the little Anime I've seen did not contain black characters. But if there are any objections to the portrayal of blacks in Anime, the blame is to be placed on a much larger influence, the new stereotypes that the movie and television industry has created.

This has been a problem since the beginning of the medium, including the historic BIRTH OF A NATION. Throughout the 1920s, 30s, and 40s, black characters were portrayed in a limited fashion that was not realistic, and was usually created to draw laughs at their own expense. Much of this started to disappear in the 1950s, as the industry tried to act as though blacks didn't exist. In one case, there was the BEULAH show, which moved to CBS-TV in the early 1950s. But this was the typical black maid role. The most daring move was the television production of the long running radio show, AMOS N' ANDY also on CBS. For television, an all black cast was used, with characters that were more of a reflection of the types in real life, although exaggerated for the sake of comedy. This was the first instance where black actors were given a chance to be portrayed in their own community, with people who had a variety of occupations such as businessmen, doctors, layers, and common laborers, and was a major step forward from the stereotypes of slaves, servants, and railroad porters. In spite of the postive aspects of these portrayals, the NAACP sighted AMOS N' ANDY as a misrepresentation of the race, and lobbied successfully to have the show removed from broadcast and syndication. With the exception of certain references in Public Television Specials, it has not been on the air since 1964. With a few exceptions such as the movie musical CARMEN JONES, Hollywood had little to offer black performers in the 1950s.

The 1960s inspired a new type of stereotype, the dignified black man as portrayed by Sidney Poitier. This type was enhanced by performers such as
Bill Cosby on I SPY, Nichelle Nickols on STAR TREK, and Gail Fisher on MANNIX.

The 1970s were a reflection of the militant protesters and social tensions of the times. And the more liberal production codes allowed for more frank and many times negative character types that placed blacks into a new set of stereotypes in an effort to be more "realistic." Instead of the servant roles, we had drug dealers, thugs, pimps, and prostittues. The saturation of these types of personalities seems to be the source of the negative stereotypes sited by the poster above. After some 30 years of these types of images, which are exported to foreign countries, it isn't surprising that the impression for these animators is negative.

On the other side, there have been many attempts to balance the scale with
the portrayal of two parent middle class black family life as in THE COSBY SHOW. This can also be said about THE PROUD FAMILY, just to bring the
discussion back to the subject of animaiton. And in that, there is a great deal to be said about the sucess of FAT ALBERT beginning in the late 60s, and continuing into the early 80s. This was the first time that animation gave attention to black characters in a flattering and well caricatured fashion, and offered positive human values that all could relate to.

Considering the whole, there has been a lot of effort made in the last 30 years to portray blacks in a more fully dimensional form than they had been in the past. But if the producers of Anime and any other form of animaiton continue to fall back on negative stereotypes, it may be a reflection of their attitutude, perceptions, or lack of awareness of what real people are like.

 

[MajinVegeta86]

if there was just one anime that has no stereotypes of africans, with no gangsta **** or big pink lips which wasn't nessarly, then i would be happy of it

 

[Ian]

Okay, not an anime, but TMNT has been excellent in its portrayal of black people, IMO. Black people are everywhere: they can be amoral scientists (Baxter), superheroes (Silver Sentry), homeless professors (The Professor), Guardians, and Generals. True, none of these characters are regulars, but one can't say they're stereotypes. Their portrayal of asians is a bit more suspect, with almost every japanese person being a ninja, but then again 65 % of the characters in the show are ninjas/martial artists of some kind.

As for americans in anime that aren't stereotypes, I could mention the entire regular cast of Big-O (except for those that were French).

 

[Animelee]

Recent? I'm thirteenth-generation American and I'm still pretty damn "pink."

Ah, that's because you and your ancestors have been living indoors since you came to America. Since you're not outside most of the time hunting/farming/working like our ancestors, you've remained the same as your recent ancestors. I bet if you were in a construction worker in Florida, you'd see what I mean. They're quite dark pink, and eventually their ancestors will become red, like the Native Americans did when they arrived about 12,000-years-ago. That, and global warming, will speed things up, as well.

I go too much into these things.