The Spectacular Spider-Man "Natural Selection" Talkback (Spoilers)

[warnerbroman]

That's not a good sign that you don't remember it.

It was along time ago

 

[Captain Highwind]

There's no way anyone could read/see that small ID card, and if they blew it up, it would become blurry.

You sure? Blurry beyond any form of restoration that would make it legible?

 

[Rick Jones]

It's ironic that in Night of The Lizard, Eddie Brock tries to expose Connors and gets fired, and now here he is mad that Pete took the pictures.

Connors must be pretty depressed after probably holding himself responsible for Electro and now causing a second "monster" to attack New York.

 

[KAW]

You sure? Blurry beyond any form of restoration that would make it legible?

Of course I'm sure, look at your newpaper, any small objects with words and picture is completely blurry. Have you ever notice that when someone is wearing a nametag, when they want to see the person's name, they usually squint and look a little closer, usually while they're standing only one or two feet away from them, now imagine a smaller picture 20 or 30 times smaller.

 

[creativerealms]

You would be surprised what a photo imaging program could do. You might need something better then Photoshop (though who knows PS might be enough but you could figure out whose ID it was.

I still say that Peter was really not a jerk and that only the supporting cast are suppose to see that while we the audience know better. Yet they could have done a better job with that i guess.

 

[KAW]

You would be surprised what a photo imaging program could do. You might need something better then Photoshop (though who knows PS might be enough but you could figure out whose ID it was.

Only if the nametag was shot closer sure, this was shot too small to ID it, it would look like a gray square.

 

[Antiyonder]

The concept of Parker luck is that you're supposed to go, "Aw poor kid, he gives 110%, and Life still whizzes in his Cheerios," not "That dumb jerk...he knew the consequences, he gets what he deserves."

Granted, he's still new, so naturally he doesn't know how to make up a good alibi on the spot.

However, even the early comics understood that Peter should respect the Conners family for what they have to go through.

Granted it was a different scenario, he's demonstrated some unethical decisions before. Such as in Amazing Spider-Man #9 where he faked photos to make it appear that Electro was Spider-Man.

I find it odd no ones ever commented on him turning in the Lizard photos in the 90's Animated Series (Night Of The Lizard). Like this episode, sure he kept the Lizard's Id a secret but he still took pictures of him knowing it was Conner underneath.

 

[Darklordavaitor]

Pretty good again. Don't know what you mean by a generic introduction to the Lizard; I thought his origin was portrayed well here. The fight scenes were also pretty exciting.

I was pleasantly surprised that Eddie's hatred for Peter is slowly going to begin to start now. Wonder just when, exactly, we're going to get Venom.

 

[Alex Weitzman]

Strong episode. This is shaping up to be a very well-done series.

On the fairness of the end:

It's true Peter didn't reveal Curt's identity. The show recognizes that, and so does Martha. That's not the reason he gets fired. It is, as Martha said, a matter of trust. Peter comes up with a hasty "gotta get home before curfew" excuse to leave the lab earlier in the episode, so that he can change into Spidey and track down the Lizard. (On that note, BTW, the Connors don't seem to respect Peter's curfew issues all that much. This was already a problem in the last couple of episodes, and even if Peter was lying this time, Martha wouldn't have known that. Does she really have the right to say, "No, you don't get to go home now and live up to your aunt/legal guardian's rules?") As far as Martha and Gwen knew, he was going home. Instead, he reveals that he was there, in a way, by his pictures of the Spidey/Lizard fight showing up in the Bugle.

The first crime here is the straight lie. Peter says he's going one place; he goes another. That alone betrays trust. Yes, he attempted to keep Curt's secret identity safe, but he also has unwittingly come across as an opportunist, someone who can't necessarily be trusted with any classified or secret projects that the Connors are working on. Not to mention, this also plays like shamefaced greed, no matter what the money problems at his home are like (which, again, the Connors may not be aware of, given how little they seemed to know/care about Peter's curfew rules). So as sucky as it is for Peter that he got booted out and may have made an enemy or two, their decision is justified. Inadvertantly tragic, yes, but justified.

 

[GregX]

From the Conners' point of view, Pete ditched them because at first they thought he was scared. Then they find out he too and sold pictures of the Lizard, making it seem like he took advantage of the situation.

Pete says he made sure that nothing was there to expose Conners, which is why Martha was still understanding. But, from her point of view, she has good reason not to trust him. Conners wasn't exposed, but Pete doesn't come out looking good anyway.

And, you know what, he's 16, he made a mistake. He thought selling the photos would have been harmless, and for the most part they were. But, it wasn't that he sold the photos so much as from their point of view, he ditched them when they needed help, saying he had a curfew, to take pictures and sell them.

Now, we of course know better.

Seriously, what is so hard about all that to grasp?

 

[Reg]

Somehow I knew we'd all end up talking about how this episode ended. Peter would have been branded a coward for running away when he left the lab. His friends and Martha think he's a jerk because he took photos to make money, which he desperately needed, so to them he looks like scum. Looked like a no-win situation to me because he really couldn't explain himself without giving away his identity.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this stuff plays out in next week's ep. Gwen and Peter's friendship will probably be strained. For how long, who knows. Peter and Eddie could patch things up before he becomes Venom and some other stuff could occur. Who knows. Lots of possibilities.

From the Conners' point of view, Pete ditched them because at first they thought he was scared. Then they find out he too and sold pictures of the Lizard, making it seem like he took advantage of the situation.

Pete says he made sure that nothing was there to expose Conners, which is why Martha was still understanding. But, from her point of view, she has good reason not to trust him. Conners wasn't exposed, but Pete doesn't come out looking good anyway.

And, you know what, he's 16, he made a mistake. He thought selling the photos would have been harmless, and for the most part they were. But, it wasn't that he sold the photos so much as from their point of view, he ditched them when they needed help, saying he had a curfew, to take pictures and sell them.

Now, we of course know better.

Seriously, what is so hard about all that to grasp?

Thank you. You said it better than I could.

 

[Captain Highwind]

Now, we of course know better.

Seriously, what is so hard about all that to grasp?

Probably the fact that he still thought taking the pictures was a good idea, despite the build-up earlier in the episode where he sees how the Lizard transformation is affecting Curt's family, and then wonders why everyone hates what he did.

And finally, for him to just sum it up as, "Y'know what? This is all Spider-Man's fault!"

 

[GregX]

Probably the fact that he still thought taking the pictures was a good idea, despite the build-up earlier in the episode where he sees how the Lizard transformation is affecting Curt's family, and then wonders why everyone hates what he did.

And finally, for him to just sum it up as, "Y'know what? This is all Spider-Man's fault!"

He's SIXTEEN! He thought that by protecting Conners' identity, things would be fine. He was wrong.

Like you never did anything stupid when you were sixteen.

 

[Palin Dromos]

He's SIXTEEN! He thought that by protecting Conners' identity, things would be fine. He was wrong.

That's something that I thought was really spot-on about the situation. This is a young Spider-Man- he's going to screw up. He did it last week too, when he attacked Electro without provocation.

Even if he had used an alias for the photo it could still cause problems; if the fact that he took the photo was discovered later the Conners' feelings of betrayal would have been magnified.

Incidentally, this also gets Pete out of Conner's lab so we might not have to worry about all of Spider-Man's villains being a result of Conner's experiments in this series.

I also like how Spider-Man takes a real beating in this series, his uniform got shredded in "SotF" and here he got his hand injured.

The Lizard transformation was surprisingly graphic. They cut away to the old "shadow trick" and then shockingly cut right back to his skull collapsing and eyes bulging! Wow.

I also like that the Brock situation is progressing at a slow reasonable pace. and his tendency to jump head first into a situation will play well into the type of brawler that Venom is. Though with his more sympathetic portrayal here I wonder if they are going to try and make the whole "Lethal Protector" angle work. It's a controversial aspect of the character in the comics but this series may see a way to make it work without it diminishing the character. We shall see.

Looking forward to Shocker next week. The character has always been a little generic for my taste, I'm hoping that GW and co. found a way to spice him up.

 

[spyke]

From the Conners' point of view, Pete ditched them because at first they thought he was scared. Then they find out he too and sold pictures of the Lizard, making it seem like he took advantage of the situation.

Pete says he made sure that nothing was there to expose Conners, which is why Martha was still understanding. But, from her point of view, she has good reason not to trust him. Conners wasn't exposed, but Pete doesn't come out looking good anyway.

And, you know what, he's 16, he made a mistake. He thought selling the photos would have been harmless, and for the most part they were. But, it wasn't that he sold the photos so much as from their point of view, he ditched them when they needed help, saying he had a curfew, to take pictures and sell them.

Now, we of course know better.

Seriously, what is so hard about all that to grasp?

It's the internet dude. Some people are just not willing or able to get/grasp the most simple of things, no matter how much you break it down and explain it to them. I'm just glad I'm not the only one who "gets" this episode and understand what the writers were trying to convey.

IMO, this was the BEST episode of SSM so far.

 

[Captain Highwind]

He's SIXTEEN! He thought that by protecting Conners' identity, things would be fine. He was wrong.

And that's why it seems jarring. He actually stopped and thought about what he was going to do, and still screwed up because he missed the huge, obvious clues that were given to him in the episode (Billy wondering what's going to happen to his dad, Martha struggling to keep things under control before it gets any more out of hand). All the drama built into the episode was lost the minute Pete was like, "Gee, what'd I do wrong...?"

There may be some psychological profiling of the teenage mind woven into all of this, but from the outside it just feels like lazy writing. And I don't feel sorry for Peter. I hope they weren't expecting me to.

I also hope Pete doesn't start having problems understanding why Brock hates him so much...

 

[Sketch]

Wow that was a graphic looking transformation for the art style. But the Lizard design was great.

I think Peter could have found a way to help with the serum before ditching at the very least. Spider-Man didn't help significantly until they made the serum. It's a shame for Peter to have his friends think he's a selfish jerk but I guess thus is the way of Spider-Man. And stupid him, should have made sure they didn't print his name with the photo.

I'll bet when Brock finds out Spider-Man is Peter he might be even more angry at his old friend and thus... Venom. As even though Spidey helped Conners he also endangered the family by getting that picture printed. Such as what Brock almost did in Spider-Man: TAS but at least Pete didn't offer the identity of the Lizard to the Bugle like TAS Brock did.

 

[GregX]

And that's why it seems jarring. He actually stopped and thought about what he was going to do, and still screwed up because he missed the huge, obvious clues that were given to him in the episode (Billy wondering what's going to happen to his dad, Martha struggling to keep things under control before it gets any more out of hand). All the drama built into the episode was lost the minute Pete was like, "Gee, what'd I do wrong...?"

There may be some psychological profiling of the teenage mind woven into all of this, but from the outside it just feels like lazy writing. And I don't feel sorry for Peter. I hope they weren't expecting me to.

I also hope Pete doesn't start having problems understanding why Brock hates him so much...

Ever heard of subtlety? You're taking things to such absolutes.

Yeah, Greg Weisman wants this to also be about a teenage mind. The theme of the series is "the education of Peter Parker", he is growing up. He's not the brilliant hero and scientist we know him as now, but he's growing into it.

And again with the absolutes. Brock doesn't hate him yet. He's pissed at him, but he doesn't hate him. That will eventually come. It is possible to be very pissed at someone and not hate them.

 

[Movie06]

This an impressive episode I have to admit. I like The Lizard's origin and how Eddie Brock was given a reason to hate Peter Parker, I mean mix him and the symbiote, well you get the idea and I felt for Peter at the end.

And of course, Spidey's lines make me laugh especially at the beginning of the episode. What was it that he said again?

 

[GregX]

I think Peter could have found a way to help with the serum before ditching at the very least. Spider-Man didn't help significantly until they made the serum. It's a shame for Peter to have his friends think he's a selfish jerk but I guess thus is the way of Spider-Man. And stupid him, should have made sure they didn't print his name with the photo.

Well, he did have to stop the Lizard from eating everyone.