The Stuart Snyder era of CN is underrated

[TheMisterManGuy]

In 2007, Jim Samples, then executive vp and general manager of Cartoon Network, abruptly resigned following the Boston bomb scare scandal related to the Aqua Teen Hunger Force movie. A few months later, Turner Broadcasting named Stuart Snyder president and COO of Animation, Young Adults, and Kids Media. The newly created position included oversight of Cartoon Network, Adult Swim, and Boomerang.

Snyder's reign at CN would last from 2007-2014, and among Cartoon Network fans, his tenure at the channel is seen as very much a mixed bag. On the one hand, he green lit some of the network's most innovative and boundary pushing shows in its history. On the other, he was infamous for moving the network towards reality TV. But for all his faults, I think Stuart Snyder mostly had the right idea for Cartoon Network, and was able to keep it successful in the face of a changing tv environment.

To understand what Snyder was trying to do for CN, you have to understand the kids tv landscape at the time. Nickelodeon and Disney Channel were seeing incredible success with live-action tween sitcoms and movies geared towards 9 to 11 year old girls with shows like iCarly, Hannah Montana, Naked Brothers Band, and High School Musical. These cash-cow franchises dominated much of the children's entertainment zightgiest in the late 2000s, and Cartoon Network needed a way to stay relevant in a kids tv environment dominated by tween girls. Snyder's solution? Target their older brothers.

Rather than compete with Nick and Disney directly, CN instead opted to court slightly older, mostly male viewers. Both with edgier comedies like The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack and Total Drama Island, as well as darker action-adventure shows like Star Wars: The Clone Wars and Ben 10 Alien Force. The goal was to draw in more 12-14 year old kids, while still appealing to its core 6-11 year old audience, knowing that kids want to watch what the older kids are watching. And on the animated side, this worked. Total Drama and Star Wars were among the network's highest rated shows, and it showed that Snyder's era of CN was off to a decent start.

Where it didn't work however, was with the controversial decision to move into live-action. Yes, we can't talk about Stuart Snyder's Cartoon Network, without talking about the real-life elephant in the room known as CN Real. Now in my opinion. Live-Action shows on Cartoon Network... isn't necessarily a bad idea (Put your pitch forks down and listen). There is a way to make it work, just look at channel-mate Adult Swim, who managed to make live-action work for them by making those shows as bizarre and nonsensical as their animated stuff.

In the same way, Cartoon Network could've made a decent foray into live-action if the shows were compatible with the animated lineup. Plus, if Snyder wanted to appeal to the young teen audience, then having live-action was kind of a necessity. Problem is, if Snyder was going to start putting live-action on Cartoon Network... Reality TV was by far the WORST possible genre he could've chosen to start with. Because most of the CN Real shows were just watered down kids' versions of other reality shows. Kids don't watch CN to see more of the same shit they could get on other channels. Kids always turned to Cartoon Network to get away from reality, to see things that couldn't be done in real life. So yeah, it's no wonder CN Real failed.

Thing is, Cartoon Network had a few, much better live-action shows that aired after that disaster such as Unnatural History and Tower Prep, and it makes me wonder, why didn't Snyder start with these shows? They weren't cartoons, but they were fantastical and special-effects heavy enough that they fit in with the animated lineup just fine. But by that point, the damage of CN Real had already been done, and people were disgusted with the idea of any live-action show on Cartoon Network. Snyder of course, got the memo, and refocused the channel back towards edgy animation in 2010, with the one-two punch of Adventure Time and Regular Show.

I think Stuart Snyder had the right ideas with Cartoon Network. Broadening out to an elusive audience that wasn't being served by Nick or Disney, focusing on edgier programing, and trying to create a diverse range of shows. I think he just really bungled the execution on some of these plans. For better or worse, Stuart Snyder's regime at Cartoon Network was kind of a wild ride.

 

[JMTV]

Yeah, as the dark age of Cartoon Network in the late 2000's may be, I don't think Stu Snyder was that bad.

I understand what Snyder was trying to do for CN. Kids competition was really started to heat up on cable TV, especially for Nick and Disney.

Cartoon Network was basically falling behind since a lot of the old Cartoon Cartoons are started to ended their runs, and some of the post-Cartoon Cartoons CN Originals came and went so quickly in the mid-2000's, and Kids WB got the axe. Not to mention, CN's blocks was started to faltered too. Fridays was replaced by Fried Dynamite, Cartoon Theater fizzled out, Miguzi got cancelled, Toonami became a shell of its former self, and the Cartoon Cartoons blocks like The Top 5 has been dropped in favor of moving the old CN shows to Boomerang.

So, at this point, Snyder has to hit the big reset button in order for Cartoon Network to remain relevant.

And.....(sighs), look, as much as I do not like CN Real, the concept of live-action on Cartoon Network is not a horrible idea. It could've work if it was given to the right people. If the live action shows on CN Real were cartoon adjacent and have something to do with cartoons, it could've been halfway decent. Alas, it didn't work. And, we all know it didn't work.

But besides that, Snyder did put out some bangers that a lot of people really love and also become huge hits in their own right. Total Drama and Star Wars the Clone Wars, and Flapjack did help set the roadmap for mature shows on Cartoon Network in the 2010's. Then, Adventure Time and Regular Show came along, help kickstart the new renaissance.

For all its faults, I'll give Stu Snyder credit for actually trying to make CN relevant again, something we had not seen since the late 90's and early 2000's. At least he's taking risks, even if the risks don't paid off for the most part, at least he was trying something new. It's not like Cartoon Network was playing things too safe and constantly doing the same things over and over and over again. (Christina Miller, I'm looking at you)

 

[PicardMan]

Cartoon Network Real, cancelling Toonami, and cancelling all those action cartoons in the 2010s are the dark marks on his tenure. Starting the Cartoon Network Renaissance with Adventure Time and Regular Show are what made him the savior of Cartoon Network after being its destroyer. To be fair on Toonami's cancellation, Bleach making it big and everything except Naruto and to a lesser extent Bobobo flopping hard seemed to be hints that the market for kids' shonen was dying. Adult Swim Action dropping the ball is another story entirely. With or without Snyder, Cartoon Network Toonami would have died and gotten reborn as a much darker and edgier block. The Western action cartoon purge that immediately followed Cartoon Network's anime purge is less forgivable and Snyder is on the hook for that. He might have done a lot of positive for comedy cartoons, but with the exception of The Clone Wars, he was practically Action Cartoon Satan.

 

[Ace]

I think the decision to push into live action makes a lot more sense given the historical context. The popularity of the teen genre with massive hits like Hannah Montana and iCarly. Kids want to feel mature and overall I could see why cartoons had the kind of reputation of being "things to show to small children" especially since the quality of cartoons in the late 00s weren't as great as they were in the beginning of the decade and in general the vast majority of animation being made for preschoolers. (Not that I have anything against that but that plays into perceptions)

I think Synder's regime was more successful in hindsight. They greenlit most of the successful shows they would run with for the next decade and they're still relying on Gumball and Max on Adventure Time. What I think ended that golden age was sticking to various formulas rather than caring about creativity. Their shows started looking and feeling the same.


Maybe action cartoons worked a lot better in the SatAm era than on cable because it's some once a week event you can't miss. On cable you just drop in watch and drop out at whatever time. In serialized shows if you've seen the episode already you aren't really likely to tune in again and there's the problem where if you miss an episode you aren't going to understand everything up until that point. I think Cartoon Network just took the easy way out with action. They wanted something they could just air all day. Fortunately streaming benefited the genre a lot better than cable has because you can just see the whole thing right there in order without having to wait for it.

 

[TheMisterManGuy]

I think the decision to push into live action makes a lot more sense given the historical context. The popularity of the teen genre with massive hits like Hannah Montana and iCarly. Kids want to feel mature and overall I could see why cartoons had the kind of reputation of being "things to show to small children" especially since the quality of cartoons in the late 00s weren't as great as they were in the beginning of the decade and in general the vast majority of animation being made for preschoolers. (Not that I have anything against that but that plays into perceptions)

Ironically, most of these "tween" sitcoms aren't even watched by actual tweens, even back then. I know when I was in middle school, very few kids were talking about Nick and Disney shows. But plenty of kids were talking about Adventure Time, and stuff like anime, and video games.

And.....(sighs), look, as much as I do not like CN Real, the concept of live-action on Cartoon Network is not a horrible idea. It could've work if it was given to the right people. If the live action shows on CN Real were cartoon adjacent and have something to do with cartoons, it could've been halfway decent. Alas, it didn't work. And, we all know it didn't work.

I'll even say that looking at the CN Real shows as just shows in a vacuum... They weren't actually that bad. At worst, they were just kind of uninspired and derivative. Obviously the idea of Live-action reality shows on CARTOON Network was a horrible idea that was doomed to fail. But if you're gonna break into Reality TV, you could've done a lot worse.

 

[PicardMan]

Ironically, most of these "tween" sitcoms aren't even watched by actual tweens, even back then. I know when I was in middle school, very few kids were talking about Nick and Disney shows. But plenty of kids were talking about Adventure Time, and stuff like anime, and video games.

They were at their absolute peak in the late 00s, before Adventure Time and the 2010s Anime Renaissance. This was when Disney Channel was 90% tweencoms and High School Musical and Hannah Montana were pop cultural juggernauts. Toonami got cancelled, and most people were declaring anime doomed, not foreseeing the 2010s comeback. Stuart Snyder was hated by anime fans and people thought he just killed the American anime market forever. Going with reality shows instead of teen popstar sitcoms seem like Snyder wasn't directly chasing Nickelodeon and Disney Channel. The way things changed so dramatically from 2009 and 2010 is night and day.

 

[Golden Geek]

Ironically, most of these "tween" sitcoms aren't even watched by actual tweens, even back then. I know when I was in middle school, very few kids were talking about Nick and Disney shows. But plenty of kids were talking about Adventure Time, and stuff like anime, and video games.

I watched the tweencoms in elementary and a few going into middle school. I don't remember the exact transition, but the most recent tweencom I remember watching is Dog With a Blog. I liked Tower Prep as a kid as well, but I simply wasn't interested in the reality shows and thought Out of Jimmy's Head was the stupidest thing ever. And I asked this question even as a kid - "What is this doing on Cartoon Network?" (Girls watch cartoons, there was a way to achieve that goal without breaking the channel's spirit.)

On-topic, there were good shows during Snyder's era, but I'm never going to overly sympathetic towards it as a whole because Jim Samples and Adult Swim did nothing wrong. The Boston bomb scare was the first warning sign we were heading towards living in Idiocracy.

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

Cartoon Network Real, cancelling Toonami, and cancelling all those action cartoons in the 2010s are the dark marks on his tenure. Starting the Cartoon Network Renaissance with Adventure Time and Regular Show are what made him the savior of Cartoon Network after being its destroyer. To be fair on Toonami's cancellation, Bleach making it big and everything except Naruto and to a lesser extent Bobobo flopping hard seemed to be hints that the market for kids' shonen was dying. Adult Swim Action dropping the ball is another story entirely. With or without Snyder, Cartoon Network Toonami would have died and gotten reborn as a much darker and edgier block. The Western action cartoon purge that immediately followed Cartoon Network's anime purge is less forgivable and Snyder is on the hook for that. He might have done a lot of positive for comedy cartoons, but with the exception of The Clone Wars, he was practically Action Cartoon Satan.

Under him, CN did try to create a new action block called You Are Here to replace Toonami, but on Friday night instead of Saturday. There were various Saturday morning action attempts too like Dynamite Action Squad and Saturday Crushzone. I didn’t watch much of these blocks at the time, though. I don’t think any of these blocks really served well as a replacement for Toonami though.

 

[Markus Nelis]

Snyder made horrible decisions when he first arrived. But since 2010 things have been so good that he managed to turn 360. First he barely had originals but then the CN peak happened during the 2010 to 2013. We got shows that are one of the most popular shows of all time: Regular Show, Adventure Time, Gumball, The Looney Tunes Show etc. So yeah, meh begining, great end.

I think Snyder era was underrated just because of the live-action overshadowing. Without them people would have called him one of the best presidents ever. If he focused more on cartoons in 2007 and having very successful shows during the beginning, he wouldn't be getting backlash.

 

[JMTV]

Under him, CN did try to create a new action block called You Are Here to replace Toonami, but on Friday night instead of Saturday.

Well, there's Action Flicks...

Yeah, I don't think anybody remembers that lol

 

[cartoonnetworkpoke]

Without the live action Snyder could've been probably the best presdient CN has had.

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

Well, there's Action Flicks...

Yeah, I don't think anybody remembers that lol

I forgot about this block. Iirc it mainly aired DC DTVs and Naruto.

 

[PicardMan]

Snyder did put Cartoon Network as the number one destination for comedy cartoons in the 2010s, but how he handled anime and action is another story. Considering that Shippuden and Dragonball Z Kai were just around the corner, Toonami could have had a Renaissance on Cartoon Network. Nicktoons took advantage and early 2010s Nicktoons was pretty much the DBZ Kai reruns network, if my memory was correct. We never would have had the Disney XD Shippuden butcher job if Cartoon Network kept it. Granted, Kai seemed to only briefly revive non toyetic anime on kids' cable, and the minute Kai ended, the era of non toyetic anime on kids' TV truly ended. Toonami seemed destined to have died and been reborn as an edgy Adult Swim block, but Cartoon Network Toonami probably would have had a few more good years left with Shippuden and Kai. The butterfly affect of how Cartoon Network surviving and airing Shippuden and Kai is an interesting hypothetical of how it would have changed the history of anime in America.

As for Western action, the existence of action blocks like You are Here and DC Nation does not excuse the mass purges that occurred. The post Toonami action blocks fizzled quickly.

I guess whether you like the guy or not depends on if you are a comedy or action cartoon fan. For action fans, he's definitely not the GOAT and might as well be the WOAT.

 

[TheMisterManGuy]

On-topic, there were good shows during Snyder's era, but I'm never going to overly sympathetic towards it as a whole because Jim Samples and Adult Swim did nothing wrong. The Boston bomb scare was the first warning sign we were heading towards living in Idiocracy.

Yeah, the overreaction was incredibly stupid on the media's part. But I feel like Turner probably would've fired Jim Samples regardless given the outrage and the fact that they had to pay a heafty fine for that debacle.

I watched the tweencoms in elementary and a few going into middle school. I don't remember the exact transition, but the most recent tweencom I remember watching is Dog With a Blog. I liked Tower Prep as a kid as well, but I simply wasn't interested in the reality shows and thought Out of Jimmy's Head was the stupidest thing ever. And I asked this question even as a kid - "What is this doing on Cartoon Network?" (Girls watch cartoons, there was a way to achieve that goal without breaking the channel's spirit.)

I don't doubt specific shows had their fans in middle school. But I never got the impression most 12-14 year olds watched Nick and Disney on a regular basis. Most kids in middle school I knew were watching whatever older teens and adults watched.

 

[Stumpos]

I must note that Out of Jimmy's Head (the first live action series) was greenlit under Jim Samples, so it's likely the push for live action still would've happened even if Samples stayed after 2007.

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

Yes, but Jimmy was not a reality show, but a sitcom with a connection to cartoon characters. I only saw the pilot movie and thought it was weird and stupid. The show itself was probably even worse. But it does at least fit the channel in a way that the later live action reality shows didn’t. The main character had cartoons in his head; so it was a hybrid like Roger Rabbit, Osmosis Jones, Pagemaster, and Space Jam. Some of those hybrid films aired on CN as early as the Powerhouse and City eras.

As for Toonami, they misplayed things badly in 2004. Toonami was never going to be allowed to move in the teen direction CN promised with the TOM3 era in the period leading up to the move to Saturdays. They quickly began imposing ridiculous restraints on shows that skewed older and aired only late at night. Beginning that summer, city era airings of Yu Yu Hakusho and Gundam Seed forbidden from mentioning the words death and kill. Meanwhile, you have them airing a show about the Grim Reaper every day…

Toonami should have just moved to Adult Swim when SVES went under, where they wouldn’t have to deal with CN constantly sabotaging their acquisitions and forcing them to air random junk like Wulin Warriors. People have nostalgia for the TOM3 packaging, and he aired some great shows in the first couple years. But go look at some of the schedules from spring 2005-spring 2007. They are just terrible. Constant Naruto marathons, random live action movies, and shows coming and going in the span of weeks. I was in middle school during the TOM3 Saturday era. The anime my peers were talking about were on AS. If they really wanted to target teens with Toonami like Jim Samples said, they needed to allow TV-PG and even 14. Toonami airing InuYasha and FMA would have kept the block alive with mid 2000s teens, but airing heavily edited Saturday morning shows like 4Kids One Piece at 10 PM wasn’t the way to stay relevant with that crowd. Bionix in Canada offered a better way, airing more mature shows with higher ratings later at night.

Unfortunately, by the Snyder era it was simply too late for Toonami. The block had been horribly mismanaged throughout the Samples era, even though he said some promising things about it early on. The only thing they could do was kill the block off. I can’t really blame him for shedding the baggage of Toonami, since the TOM4 era had totally burnt up any good will the block had by the time it died in 2008. Theoretically they could’ve rebranded with TOM5 and moved the block to Friday, but I remember they wanted to push the Nood branding. I used to watch Batman on You Are Here and recall they had a host called “King Nood.”

 

[MissionHill4Ever]

I have a big say in this because I was born a month after CN launched, so I have a lot of perspective on this era.

CN became something special in the 1999-2004 range. It just had everything you could want in a network. Now I watched Nick, Toon Disney, etc. but CN was my favorite place. The Original Cartoons were awesome. It had action when you wanted. It gave me an introduction into anime. Saturday marathons. Movies. And the bumps were just top notch. It felt like a network that was alive. It had a sense of magic in a way that maybe only Disney Animation has ever had, but then something changed in 2005-2006ish and it just grew bland.

I felt like Cartoon Network was animation's home...passing down the Bugs Bunny/Scooby Doo/HB! legacy to the new generation of Cartoon Cartoons. It was silly and fun. It felt like a place where the people in charge were having fun. Cartoon Cartoon Fridays couldn't be missed. You always knew a great marathon would be on Saturdays. Toonami After School?

Samples did some great things, but the network was struggling to replicate what it built in the late 90's.

The AOL/Time Warner Merger is what killed CN! in the mid 2000s. IT took some time, but the old Turner properties were never going to have the same freedom that Ted Turner allowed them to have.

2004 the City Era kicked off and it was like the peak and high point of the old days. But some things were noticeably changing and had changed....
-Logo Change and end of the Powerhouse Branding
-Adult Swim had become 5 nights a week.
-Boomerang block ended and most all classics left the network
-Toonami moved to Saturday nights
-Fridays was live action by this point

These things weren't killers at the time, because 2003-2004 was my favorite time to view the network. But you lost the classic shows. The bumpers and powerhouse sound were gone. A lot of the older properties were ending and not being shown as much. Anime was pushed aside a bit. It just felt like a different place.

The big thing that was happening at the time? Nickelodeon had freaking Spongebob and was just blowing everyone away. CN had a solid roster of shows, but they did not have anything on that level The PPG did not reach the heights and fizzled out in terms of popularity. Dexter, Bravo, etc. were all ending. KND, Billy& Mandy, and Foster's were great shows but weren't reaching the heights....and corporate wanted something mainstream to sell toys and products.

Samples CN wasn't in a good place in 2006. Remember the CN YES! branding? It just felt like a zombie of what it used to be, but it somewhat still had a CN! feel. Fridays were terrible. The blocks were pretty much not what they used to be. The live action seed was being planted. Samples did want to keep CN! somewhat the same, but it was a terrible network by that point. I was a teen by that point, but I still remember thinking I could still turn on Nick, Disney, Toon Disney, and even KidsWB! and felt like it was the same network at it's core.

Snyder came in and just pretty much thought the network sucked. He did not care about the history or animation, he was sent in to rebuild the network that was in bad shape. So 2007 was his time to just rebuild the network. I think he just used the time to test some things out and make money. He just tried cheap programming that would get money. A bunch of Johnny Test re-runs. Total Drama. Noods. There pretty much was no connection to the old network. IT was cheap and he made it corporate friendly. The old CN was gone and its never to return.

By 2010 he had actually found some good shows and the network hit it's stride. It was something that even as a 18 year old and into college that I could turn on and watch. THe branding was cohesive. It was something new and I give him credit for what he did to make it into a success.

But it in no way matches the magic of what Cartoon Network was in 2003. That peak was something special and it's a shame what happened. The remnants of what that network was lives on at Adult Swim in Atlanta, which was where Turner was founded. They make money and that's why they are allowed to live.

 

[PicardMan]

Toonami should have just moved to Adult Swim when SVES went under, where they wouldn’t have to deal with CN constantly sabotaging their acquisitions and forcing them to air random junk like Wulin Warriors.

Good point that Toonami was in crap shape even before Snyder killed the block and everything except Naruto and maybe Bobo being massive flops. We know now that Dragonball Z Kai was just around the corner, but Snyder probably didn't know a potential savior was coming. Really, Dragonball Z and Naruto were big with kids, but those seem to be the exceptions. Rurouni Kenshin, Yu Yu Hakusho, and the like were bigger with the teen audience than the audience advertisers were aiming for. A theoretical DBZ Kai, Naruto Shippuden, lineup likely would not have had any other anime on their. We can blame Adult Swim too for not figuring out the market and airing too many niche drama titles over shonen. We can argue that Toonami and censorship of stuff like Yu Yu Hakusho possibly held anime back. When Demarco took the reigns of anime from Kim Manning, he phased out the drama anime and made the block much heavier on battle shonen, making the block much more popular than during its rut. Now that you mention it, Toonami moving to Adult Swim in 2004 and airing Yu Yu Hakusho uncut might have helped the block not reach the rut it got itself into. and maybe the Great Anime Crash might not have happened if executives were smart enough to realize that uncensored shonen was what the market wanted. Cartoon Network Toonami pretty much created the culture of DBZ/Naruto only fans, people who loved those two anime and hated every other anime. Nu Toonami seemed to cater to the greater shonen fanbase. Snyder might have kept Cartoon Network Toonami going, but it would have been a DBZ Kai/Shippuden/western cartoons like Star Wars: The Clone Wars block. Cartoon Network Toonami had to die for Nu Toonami to become something much greater than the Cartoon Network era was despite what nostalgia says.

 

[TheMisterManGuy]

As for Toonami, they misplayed things badly in 2004. Toonami was never going to be allowed to move in the teen direction CN promised with the TOM3 era in the period leading up to the move to Saturdays. They quickly began imposing ridiculous restraints on shows that skewed older and aired only late at night. Beginning that summer, city era airings of Yu Yu Hakusho and Gundam Seed forbidden from mentioning the words death and kill. Meanwhile, you have them airing a show about the Grim Reaper every day…

Good point that Toonami was in crap shape even before Snyder killed the block and everything except Naruto and maybe Bobo being massive flops. We know now that Dragonball Z Kai was just around the corner, but Snyder probably didn't know a potential savior was coming. Really, Dragonball Z and Naruto were big with kids, but those seem to be the exceptions. Rurouni Kenshin, Yu Yu Hakusho, and the like were bigger with the teen audience than the audience advertisers were aiming for.

It's worth noting that Toonami was in kind of an awkward spot in 2003 when CN decided to prioritize 6-11 for most of the day, and 18-34 for Adult Swim. 9-14 and 12-17 kind of became an afterthought, and the network felt Toonami skewed too old for the new 6-11 only mandate imposed for weekdays. Which is why Miguzi was created and Toonami was put on Saturday nights.

CN pre-2003 was geared towards more of an all ages psychographic as opposed to a strict age group. Remember when they used to brag about DBZ's 12-24 ratings?

 

[PicardMan]

Toonami skewed too old for the new 6-11 only mandate imposed for weekdays. Which is why Miguzi was created and Toonami was put on Saturday nights.

Snyder seemed to impose a 6-11 only mandate for Saturdays too when Yu Yu Hakusho, Gundam Seed, IGPX and all the edgy anime got purged. TOM 4 and the extra kiddy shows like shameless Yu-Gi-oh knockoff Duel Masters seemed to be what Samples wanted on Toonami (also the Hot Wheels cartoons, mediocre Transformers anime, and a bunch of other teen repellant shows). I think he wanted to shoo off the teens for that 6-11 ad revenue. Samples started Toonami's downward trend. Snyder euthanized the block Samples already ruined for teens.