Why Black Super Heroes Succeed- and Fail

[EinBebop]

Well, I didn't like M.C. Duncan as Kingpin because it reminded me of a nasty stereotype (probably still prevalent) that Afro-Americans are mostly criminals.

And this is one of the reasons I believe blacks haven't been as successful in Hollywood as they could be: because every time you portray a black person with any flaws (i.e., HUMAN), you have to have discusssions about how these characters are being portrayed. It introduces a whole new level of complexity to casting and, when dealing with television, long-term script-writing.

 

[Web Head]

I think the reason that there's not many major comic films about black characters is that there aren't a lot of good heroes to make them about. Make a list of all the black Marvel and DC heroes and tell me which one has the story, star power, or marketability to gross $150 million+

I also have to question how well Asians, at least, are treated in mainstream America when William Hung gets his 15 minutes of stardom on something barely more than Chinese minstrelsy, and all the other major Asian stars are either sex objects (Kelly Hu and Lucy Liu) or kung-fu masters (Jackie Chan and Jet Li).

This reminds me of a scene from the Ultimates where they're sitting around BS'ing about who should play them in a movie based on their team. When Jan Pym asks who should play her Nick Fury says Lucy Liu. Jan then gets made (understandably so) because Fury picked the only Asian female he knew. It would be like Jan picking that Urkel kid to play Fury (who looks like Samuel L Jackson)

I mean come on, look at the contraversy that surrounded Jon Stewart being in the Justice leauge cartoon. You cannot tell me that some of that was not based on racism and not on keeping true with the team's roster. SURE

I have to agree with Desslar on this point. Comic nerds are sticklers for continuity and the show picked neither the "classic" long running GL of Hal Jordan, nor the current GL of Kyle Rayner (who made the most sense given his appearance in STAS). I think you would have seen a similar reaction had they used Alan Scott.

And for the record, I think John Stewart was a great member of the JL. And Michael Clark Duncan was the only guy with a lick of talent that was physically big enough to be Kingpin. That decision wasn't based on the color of his skin but the size of his muscles.

 

[sKorpia]

It's interesting that the major companies are trying to find ways to re-start a franchise with a minority character they already have instead of looking to create a completely new character. We've come some way from the historical context of the 60s. Where are the actual products of our times, the ones that reflect change instead of trying to adhere to something that may be outdated in certain aspects?

 

[All-Star 1.5]

I think the reason that there's not many major comic films about black characters is that there aren't a lot of good heroes to make them about. Make a list of all the black Marvel and DC heroes and tell me which one has the story, star power, or marketability to gross $150 million+

You don't need to gross $150 million+ it just needs to make a profit and it holds true for any film. I mean other then Spider-Man,Batman,X-Men and Superman can you name me any other heros that are proof proven to get money at the box office; since films starring A list comics book characters like Hulk and Punisher don't seem to do well at there yet films starring B list characters like Blade seem to thrive there??? The way I see it any film can do good at the box office.

Anyway,
The films I see making a profit at the box office from Marvel are
Luke Cage,Black Panther, and Nick Fury

The films I see making a profit for DC are
Black Lightning,Green Lantern,Steel,Static and The Blood Syndicate

 

[GL2k2]

Well, I didn't like M.C. Duncan as Kingpin because it reminded me of a nasty stereotype (probably still prevalent) that Afro-Americans are mostly criminals.

That may be true, but I don't see many rich black criminals portrayed in media? Do you?

 

[EinBebop]

That may be true, but I don't see many rich black criminals portrayed in media? Do you?

Do rap artists count?

 

[GL2k2]

Do rap artists count?

TOUCHE

But you know what I mean. Like Oprah "Rich".

 

[Chris Wood]

Anyway,
The films I see making a profit at the box office from Marvel are
Luke Cage,Black Panther, and Nick Fury

Sweet Christmas, I may be out of touch, but Nick Fury isn't a brother now is he? Last time I saw him on film he was played by David Hasselhof, and let's face it, despite the afro he's got about as much soul as Hillary Duff.

 

[GL2k2]

Sweet Christmas, I may be out of touch, but Nick Fury isn't a brother now is he? Last time I saw him on film he was played by David Hasselhof, and let's face it, despite the afro he's got about as much soul as Hillary Duff.

In the Ultimate universe he is. And he's loosely based on Sam Jackson.

 

[Slade_Wilson]

Do rap artists count?

ok thats not fair. for one thing, not all rap artist are criminals and the criminal activity that they do rap about is nothing more that for show. Your quote did nothing more but show just how less you know about rap or african americans and criminal activity.not to mention you just showed a lot of us how you fall into the sterotypes that you listen to.

and to answer another question on here, I was asked to name any other foreign super heroes that get just about the same attention as superman and spiderman. Lets start with Goku,Sailor Moon, and a hell of a lot of animes and manga heroes. But the reason they work so well is because the people that write them, are 1, their same nationality and 2 not afraid to take chances with stories that are out of context with the character. what plagues heroes like cage and blck lightning is the fact that they are black heroes written and created by white people who know nothing about the african american race except for what they are fooled to believe on tv and what that 1 black friend they may have might tell them. Don't feel bad if I offend because we black people cannot write our own charcaters correctly. We use the same stereotypes and we have to feel obligated to make them black enough to appeal to black people. Not to mention that they hardly take themselves seriously.(Blokheadz.The ability to crontrol minds with rap lyrics?!?!? ) Milestone is somewhat of an exception.

 

[Nick K.]

A very interesting article. My thoughts...

Personally, when I'm reading comics or watching cartoons or movies, my heroes ethnicity and background never comes to mind unless a direct reference is made to it. i.e. If Punisher was Italian and it was stated then that is something that would register as I'm reading. Just recently in the Ultimate Universe, Nick Fury was turned from a white to black character. Why the change? I don't know, but I assume because of the problems in the countries past (and it isn't just this country but in many countries of the world where race issues have been prevalent) that the comic industry is trying to balance things in terms of race. I'm not sure, but illustrating a black man in a high government job is a step in the right direction.

In terms of black heroe's titles failing... I don't know what point was trying to be proved. Plenty of white characters titles have been cancelled to. It's just what sells more. Namor has been cancelled. Black Panther has. In terms of the article, we can say because of the biases against blacks in America that these titles failed, but I don't think that's the case. The characters they've created may not be as interesting to people. That's just my view.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

The films I see making a profit for DC are
Black Lightning,Green Lantern,Steel,Static and The Blood Syndicate

Well, we've already seen what Steel (while butchered) can do at the box office. , and if they made a Green Lantern feature film and didn't use Hal Jordan, they'd be pissing ALOT of people off. And Black Lightning is way too stereotypical (He has the word "Black" in his name for god's sake).

 

[All-Star 1.5]

Well, we've already seen what Steel (while butchered) can do at the box office. , and if they made a Green Lantern feature film and didn't use Hal Jordan, they'd be pissing ALOT of people off. And Black Lightning is way too stereotypical (He has the word "Black" in his name for god's sake).

I think that just about everyone has forgotten about Steel by now besides Superman whose last two movies flopped at the box office can get a second chance then why not Steel? I am not saying you have to make the first movie about John Stewart maybe the second one and it doesn't really matter anyway seeing as how the GL everyone seems to know is him. And if we are going by that logic then what's the use of even making a Black Panther movie besides while the name may be sterotypical the character isn't.

 

[EinBebop]

ok thats not fair. for one thing, not all rap artist are criminals and the criminal activity that they do rap about is nothing more that for show. Your quote did nothing more but show just how less you know about rap or african americans and criminal activity.not to mention you just showed a lot of us how you fall into the sterotypes that you listen to.

And your response did nothing but prove my earlier point about why blacks in general haven't been more successful in Hollywood.

 

[Chris Wood]

In the Ultimate universe he is. And he's loosely based on Sam Jackson.

??? How is this possible? Does he have Michael Jackson disease? Or is it like that old Lois Lane comic where she turns black for a day to see how it feels?

Or maybe it's Nick Fury Jr., who he had with, um, maybe Storm?

 

[GL2k2]

??? How is this possible? Does he have Michael Jackson disease? Or is it like that old Lois Lane comic where she turns black for a day to see how it feels?

Or maybe it's Nick Fury Jr., who he had with, um, maybe Storm?

The Ultimate universe is a complete retelling of the entire Marvel U history. Kinda like Year One for Marvel comics. But I don't particularly like what they've done to any of the new Marvel comics.

 

[Chris Wood]

[/color]
The Ultimate universe is a complete retelling of the entire Marvel U history. Kinda like Year One for Marvel comics. But I don't particularly like what they've done to any of the new Marvel comics.

Ah, I see. I didn't realize it was that radically different. I think it would be much more interesting if they made Namor black. Then he could go on about how "the Man" was always trying to keep Atlanteans down. He basically does that anyway.

 

[GL2k2]

Ah, I see. I didn't realize it was that radically different. I think it would be much more interesting if they made Namor black. Then he could go on about how "the Man" was always trying to keep Atlanteans down. He basically does that anyway.

Well, Aquaman is kinda like a grizzled country bumpkin, except contrary to popular belief he isn't stupid.

 

[Web Head]

You don't need to gross $150 million+ it just needs to make a profit and it holds true for any film. I mean other then Spider-Man,Batman,X-Men and Superman can you name me any other heros that are proof proven to get money at the box office; since films starring A list comics book characters like Hulk and Punisher don't seem to do well at there yet films starring B list characters like Blade seem to thrive there??? The way I see it any film can do good at the box office.

The reason movies like Spiderman and X-Men succeeded while something like the Hulk failed is IMO largely that they stuck close to the source material (besides the smart script and top notch directors). A Black Panther or Luke Cage movie that was handed with TLC by a Raimi or Singer will ALWAYS beat a McG directed Superman.

As such, I think it's only fair to evaluate the characters themselves to determine who has the depth and bevy of quality stories that contribute to a successful film conversion. What would you rather see, the perfect Steel movie or the perfect Fantastic Four? Black Lightning or the Flash? I think the reason we're seeing mostly white comic superhero movies is because the white heroes have the most depth, longest history and largest fanbase.

The solution is more and better black comic heroes in our books. And personally I prefer fresh new heroes to old retreads. One example is Alex from Marvel's Runaways. Plus I really like that he's a terrifically written character that isn't a hero for hire, a gangbanger, an African prince, or a mystical rapper. Just a good character.

 

[Frank White]

ok thats not fair. for one thing, not all rap artist are criminals and the criminal activity that they do rap about is nothing more that for show. Your quote did nothing more but show just how less you know about rap or african americans and criminal activity.not to mention you just showed a lot of us how you fall into the sterotypes that you listen to.

and to answer another question on here, I was asked to name any other foreign super heroes that get just about the same attention as superman and spiderman. Lets start with Goku,Sailor Moon, and a hell of a lot of animes and manga heroes. But the reason they work so well is because the people that write them, are 1, their same nationality and 2 not afraid to take chances with stories that are out of context with the character. what plagues heroes like cage and blck lightning is the fact that they are black heroes written and created by white people who know nothing about the african american race except for what they are fooled to believe on tv and what that 1 black friend they may have might tell them. Don't feel bad if I offend because we black people cannot write our own charcaters correctly. We use the same stereotypes and we have to feel obligated to make them black enough to appeal to black people. Not to mention that they hardly take themselves seriously.(Blokheadz.The ability to crontrol minds with rap lyrics?!?!? ) Milestone is somewhat of an exception.

Lighten up man it was a joke and besides, if I didn't listen to hip-hop I would get the same impression, I mean all you hear about in the media is "rapper x got arrested, etc, etc", I mean, MTV news(or BET news for that matter) isn't goint report that Jay-Z gave out free toys in Brooklyn last Christmas or all the work in the community a lot of hip-hop artist do. Not only that, like you said, its an image and to the casual onlooker, it quite believeable. But as an aside I agree with a lot of what you said.

Oh and as an aside I agree about the treatment of other minorities too, as much as I hate seeing my own people stereotyped, I think Asians get it much much worse. I mean, name an Asian role with no martial arts or crime involved? I dont think Hispanics get it as bad considering(IMHO) actresses Carmen Diaz and J.Lo have gotten a variety of (starring) and diverse roles. Although on the actor side I can't really think.

And one more aside. I really liked Michael Clarke Duncan as the Kingpin, I mean this guy runs every single criminal activity in New York. That takes quite a bit of intelligence, so for them to cast him as a black man that was pretty brave.