Why Black Super Heroes Succeed- and Fail

[All-Star 1.5]

The reason movies like Spiderman and X-Men succeeded while something like the Hulk failed is IMO largely that they stuck close to the source material (besides the smart script and top notch directors). A Black Panther or Luke Cage movie that was handed with TLC by a Raimi or Singer will ALWAYS beat a McG directed Superman.

But Hulk also stuck close to source material.

As such, I think it's only fair to evaluate the characters themselves to determine who has the depth and bevy of quality stories that contribute to a successful film conversion. What would you rather see, the perfect Steel movie or the perfect Fantastic Four? Black Lightning or the Flash? I think the reason we're seeing mostly white comic superhero movies is because the white heroes have the most depth, longest history and largest fanbase.

I don't see why I can't get a perfect Steel,Fantastic Four,Black Lightning and Flash. I mean this is Hollywood I mean comic book characters that are not really known like Blade,Hellboy, and Elektra can't get made into feature films and where really well known characters like Wonder Woman,Captin America and Thor can't get made into films. It shouldn't matter this chartacter is more well known than this character because to the general audience knowledge about them is almost all the same.

The solution is more and better black comic heroes in our books. And personally I prefer fresh new heroes to old retreads. One example is Alex from Marvel's Runaways. Plus I really like that he's a terrifically written character that isn't a hero for hire, a gangbanger, an African prince, or a mystical rapper. Just a good character.

But they can be good characters when thet are written well you don't need yo make characters you just need to make better uses of the ones that are in books today. And they are other black superheros in comic books espcially under DC the problem is they are rarely if ever used.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I am not saying you have to make the first movie about John Stewart maybe the second one and it doesn't really matter anyway seeing as how the GL everyone seems to know is him.

On the contrary. Most people, if you say Green Lantern, will think of Hal Jordan. The only people who think of John Stewart are animated fans who know nothing of comics. A movie called "Green Lantern" would draw out many longtime GL fans, and if it wasn't Hal, there'd be problems. It'd be the same if they used Guy Gardner. Hal is considered amongst the masses as THE Green Lantern, and he's also the first and longest lasting GL of the modern age. To use anyone but would be flat-out stupidity.

 

[Chris Wood]

I dont think Hispanics get it as bad considering(IMHO) actresses Carmen Diaz and J.Lo have gotten a variety of (starring) and diverse roles. .

Does Cameron Diaz really count as hispanic?

 

[Frank White]

Does Cameron Diaz really count as hispanic?

LOL!

 

[Jeff Harris]

Yeah, I have a comment . . . how come when everybody talk about Milestone Media's titles, they never mention Hardware?

Aside from the brief reference in the "Gear" episode of Static Shock (when Richie pondered calling himself "Hardware," Virgil stated "I think somebody's using that name."), Milestone is often forgotten in the realms of comic fandom despite the fact that he was the first Milestone character and, in my opinion, the best.

This brilliant character, who had the brilliance and technical prowess of Tony Stark and vengence-seeking mentality of Bruce Wayne. should be a character that Warner Bros. at least consider a serious film franchise. There is a Batman mystique about him showcasing the duality of man. Hardware seeks vengence against his boss and mentor Edwin Alva (you know him from Static Shock), whom he learns is a criminal kingpin providing weapons throughout the criminal underbelly of Dakota. His alter-ego, Curtis Metcalf (who kind of looked like Denzel/Wesley hybrid in the early issues), is a disgruntled employee who has been used throughout his career and wants some kind of retribution for the hard work he has done.

Hardware puts Steel to shame, if you ask me (and it was even proven in the Worlds Collide miniseries). Hardware isn't under anybody's heroic shadow, but he has his own flaws that makes him more human, which is why I probably dug Hardware more than any other Milestone title.

Gosh, I wish DC would collect the Milestone titles in TPBs. I especially would love to see the Ramos years, which I missed because the local bookshop stopped carrying Milestone titles.

But back to the article in question . . . a little too limiting, ain't it? I mean, just focusing on the lack of black super heroes? There aren't a lot of Latino nor Asian-American heroes, and even they fall under stereotypes. The most notable Latino hero I remember was Vibe, and he was the loud, "greasy" type (I want to say Alex Elder of Crimson was Latino, but I think they were just white). Most female Asian-American heroes are either sultry vixens (think the later Psylocke) or the submissive, mousey girl (Jubilee was kind of mousey) while males are either nerdish or the kung-fu master.

Let's face it, most of the major comic characters we know were created between 70 and 25 years ago. These are the characters that the industry recognize as iconic. These are also the characters that Hollywood tend to associate as worth venturing into the big and small screens. The minority characters, unfortunately, aren't well developed and are mostly homogenized stereotypes. There hasn't been a serious black super hero franchise that worked. Okay, there has been two (Blade and Spawn), but I'd like to see black superheroes that aren't monsters.

I don't want to see thuggish types like Luke Cage portrayed as heroes while keeping negative stereotypes (I certainly hope John Singleton does Cage justice). I don't want to see moralistic heroes that help spread positive messages to just the black community (I'm talking about characters like Omega Man, Brother Man, and a lot of these independent books that came out in the mid-90s, who hated the Milestone titles for "being sellouts," whatever the HELL that meant). I also don't want to see a black superhero played just for laughs (The Meteor Man, Blankman [two superheroes not based on comics], and Undercover Brother [which was based on an online comic] are probably what a lot of Hollywood execs think all black heroes should be, and that's damned pathetic).

I think the Milestone and Ghettosake properties would be worth translating into animated and live-action properties. Hollywood has begun looking beyond the "big two" comic companies for source material, and that's a good thing. They need to just look beyond color and find a story worth telling; if some "colorful" characters enter their frame of vision, more power to them.

 

[GL2k2]

Ghettosake, yeah they're cool, huh?

Anyways, I think the door is now open for other Milestone material. I'll reiterate what I wrote on another board, and that is that Static Shock may not have been the best representation of what Milestone was about, but it opened the door for other stuff. As a series, I think the Static Shock sucked, but then it was for kids. But, now we could see a Hardware or Icon series on CN. With the right creative team, either one could be excellent.

My dream would be to see Milestone continue from where they left off and independently publish new issues. And I'd like to see it be as diverse a universe as Marvel and DC, they could get independent publishers like Ghettosake to merge their characters and really start a new age of heroes. Alas, I know the truth, and it's not going to happen. Even if it could, it won't, because apparently, the universe has a beginning, middle, and an apparent end. But I wouldn't mind seeing the end though either.

 

[All-Star 1.5]

On the contrary. Most people, if you say Green Lantern, will think of Hal Jordan. The only people who think of John Stewart are animated fans who know nothing of comics. A movie called "Green Lantern" would draw out many longtime GL fans, and if it wasn't Hal, there'd be problems. It'd be the same if they used Guy Gardner. Hal is considered amongst the masses as THE Green Lantern, and he's also the first and longest lasting GL of the modern age. To use anyone but would be flat-out stupidity.

No, it's not just animated fans if you ask kids are parents that have kids are just anybody who is not familiar with the Green Lantern comic; which one they are most familiar with they are most likly going to say the one that was in the cartoon. Because his face is everywhere it's on clothes,DVDs',video games and other stuff.

Jeff, you're right minorities in general really aren't potrated well in comic books and if they are then it's once in a blue moon. But hopfully in the near future that can change and they can start appearing in movies and tv and other forms of media.

 

[Slade_Wilson]

Lighten up man it was a joke and besides, if I didn't listen to hip-hop I would get the same impression, I mean all you hear about in the media is "rapper x got arrested, etc, etc", I mean, MTV news(or BET news for that matter) isn't goint report that Jay-Z gave out free toys in Brooklyn last Christmas or all the work in the community a lot of hip-hop artist do. Not only that, like you said, its an image and to the casual onlooker, it quite believeable. But as an aside I agree with a lot of what you said.

Oh and as an aside I agree about the treatment of other minorities too, as much as I hate seeing my own people stereotyped, I think Asians get it much much worse. I mean, name an Asian role with no martial arts or crime involved? I dont think Hispanics get it as bad considering(IMHO) actresses Carmen Diaz and J.Lo have gotten a variety of (starring) and diverse roles. Although on the actor side I can't really think.

And one more aside. I really liked Michael Clarke Duncan as the Kingpin, I mean this guy runs every single criminal activity in New York. That takes quite a bit of intelligence, so for them to cast him as a black man that was pretty brave.

Before I respond to your quote, whoever it was that said something about I proved his point( I don't know his name and won't take the time to look it up cause I don't find him important), You didn't even have a point to prove cause you can't even point out the instance in which I do. Your last post was based on ignorance, racist, and stereotypical information and I would appreciate it if you kept the post on the subject instead of trying failed attempts to attack my credibility.

Now that I am to you Frank, it was a joke ok I believe you, no hard feelings about it, but you are worng about some things. for one, In this day and age, you hardly ever hear about crimes that have been commited by rappers.In fact, you hear good news more often. MTV has been infamous for reporting on the charities P.diddy and even Twista have done in the past few months. That may have been the case back in the day, but not now.

You are absolutely correct about how asians are portrayed. with jet li, jackie chan, and even Shang chi in Marvel comics running around, all we get of the asian hero is the fact that they know martial arts. We as americans have been infamous for doing it, but asians have been doing it to themselves as well. what sets them apart is the fact that because they are writing about characters they are familiar with, and are able to make them successful without fully selling themselves short. DragonBall Z and Yuyu hakusho are prime examples. Unlike how african americans write their own characters and do them horribly wrong(blokheadz?), asians are not afraid to take chances with new ideas and deviate from the norm(sailor moon, Blue gender, ect).

I commend Duncan for his potrayal of kingpin. His is the one that doesn't bother me as bad. But like what was stated above, its always the black man that is either evil, anti hero, or a hero with conditions.

 

[Slade_Wilson]

The reason movies like Spiderman and X-Men succeeded while something like the Hulk failed is IMO largely that they stuck close to the source material (besides the smart script and top notch directors). A Black Panther or Luke Cage movie that was handed with TLC by a Raimi or Singer will ALWAYS beat a McG directed Superman.

As such, I think it's only fair to evaluate the characters themselves to determine who has the depth and bevy of quality stories that contribute to a successful film conversion. What would you rather see, the perfect Steel movie or the perfect Fantastic Four? Black Lightning or the Flash? I think the reason we're seeing mostly white comic superhero movies is because the white heroes have the most depth, longest history and largest fanbase.

The solution is more and better black comic heroes in our books. And personally I prefer fresh new heroes to old retreads. One example is Alex from Marvel's Runaways. Plus I really like that he's a terrifically written character that isn't a hero for hire, a gangbanger, an African prince, or a mystical rapper. Just a good character.

not to put a damper in your positive post, but all those things aside, Alex has one thing working agaisnt him that also plagues black heroes and thats the fact that he's affiliated with others in a group. He's not clearly the star, and while he has all of those positive points going for him, there's still gonna be someone else that might steal the show from him. And by all means I'm not saying all black heroes should be loners and such, but it's just always common to see them sharing the spotlight. static shock is another example. Why does he have to share the spotlight with gear? why does any black based creation have to be diversed to be accepted, but white based creations, be it hero or not,(friends, American Pie, Fantastic 4<kinda stretching it with that one but you get the point>) are fine with all white casts?Thats what I'm trying to say.

 

[staticblue]

Ok, I first caught wind of this thread earlier this week, at on page. Its now thursday, and I see the debate is still going on. Ive been dying to weigh in but work and other social issiues have gotten in the way, so heres my go.

Im a black male. I see and take notice of a lot of forms of media, entertainment, and pretty much anything that may have an inkling of black influence. There are many reasons why africans have been over looked, many. I dont even know where to start....

A lot of you have said thing that really make sense, others have not been to on the mark. One of the issues mentions incuded someone suggesting that we not look to our past african american heroes and create new ones. I say no. These past african american heroes, rather they be positive or negative, have paved the way for the current ones that we have. I hate to see them just overlooked. as far as which one hsould grace the screen, I have my opinions. I personally dont think that luke cage should happen, but if john singelton is doing it, i cant really stop it. I do think hes getting off to a bad start by casting Tyreese in the lead role (although this is a rumor).

Second, Iv noticed the mini discussion about john stewart. I wanna say this. you guys are right, Hal Jordan was the definitve Green lantern, simply because he was the one everyone has grown up with and such, hes been a GL for the longest, and hes the most recognizable among fans. Im not a green lantern expert, but ive been doing research on the comics lately. i d study the history of the series and learned a lot. I Completely disagree with the fact that a john stewart green lantern movie would fail. Done right , it would do better than one starring hal. Now I know that everyone is gonna start flaming me or whatever, but thats just the way I see it. I think that it would be right to mention and even include hal in a movie or two (in fact I have an entire three film trilogy of a gl movie starring john scripted out already. Hal is featured but the film doesnt focus on him until movie 3. even kyle is included and it stays very true to the material.), but I just dont see hal as star quality, especialy to garner 3 movies. In my opinion, hes a cardboard cutout of the average whitebread superhero. This argument reminds me of a similar one done with captain america. A marvel writer thought it would be interesting if captain america had been black instead. Fans were furious, and this was just a simple suggestion. so what did this guy do, he wrote a miniserisies depicting the TRUE origin of captain america, showing how the first ever captain america was black. I collected the series, read it, and felt completely close to the series. It was absolutely great. This comic felt like a true mark in african american comic book history. My point is, why are so many of you so offended, when a black man takes the place of a white man in the same role that the white man previously fills? do most of you feel that that the black male is inferior? I dont understand it at all. (now this qestion might not pertain to the lot of you in this thread, but I was refereing to the masses.)

As far as other minorities, you guys are right, they are getting the shaft. Badly. I cant even name a super hero of hispanic origins, seriously, iv been thinking for the past half hour, and i cant think of one (skin from generation x could count, but hes dead)

I can name some asians, but most of them would include jackie chan and anime characters. (and whats the deal with karate asian heroes teaming up with black heroes?) I admit, blacks get it better than the others, but really, we ar just winning losers. I dont know what else to say, ill just leav it at this, wait for some others to reply, and biggy back off of that.

 

[GL2k2]

My point is, why are so many of you so offended, when a black man takes the place of a white man in the same role that the white man previously fills? do most of you feel that that the black male is inferior? I dont understand it at all. (now this qestion might not pertain to the lot of you in this thread, but I was refereing to the masses.)

You had me up until this. First of all, this thread isn't mainly about white characters turning black for film. The only comic book characters to do that have been Kingpin. Nick Fury starring Sam Jackson is not a reality just yet. And also, as black male, I will say that I prefered Jim West as a white man, only because I don't buy Will Smith's Jim West as a Secret Agent working for the President. This is where you can take that changing ethnicity of characters too far, it just isn't believable. And I don't care how many Blacks really did work for the president as Secret Agent, don't ruin someone else's franchise. As an artist, I find that personally offensive to the creators of the original story and concept of the Wild Wild West.

That in my opinion is an extension of blaxploitation, which is something that is a conumdrum. The real blaxploitation films were mostly made for and by Blacks, not like Hollywood was getting all of that money. Anyways, John Stewart is okay, because it has been thought out, the Truth is excellent because it was really thought out and if they make a film, I would hope they use this history. It actually has some base in reality since Black soldiers were indeed used for experiments and tests for Malaria and whatnot in that time period beforehand.

The topic is black superheroes. Let's continue on that.

I don't really care about other ethnicities and how they're portrayed in American media. Why? Because they have countries. Huge countries with rich histories that they can go make their movies in. And if they love America, wonderful, I know some Asian-Americans who aren't happy about being Asian-Americans. But they and hispanics are not exactly fighting mad to change it because they have an outlet, they can always see great films of people who reflect who they are and their culture. Many minorities don't have a culture like Blacks do in America because they are too close to their own countries, so I can really care less about hearing from other American minorities in that regard. I simply can not emphasize. If other American minorities want to be showcased in media, it won't be about respect it will be about money. That's plain and simple. THINK Latin explosion. Sure, you could say that about Blacks, but where are we going to take the money we make, to Africa?

 

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

I don't really care about other ethnicities and how they're portrayed in American media. Why? Because they have countries. Huge countries with rich histories that they can go make their movies in. And if they love America, wonderful, I know some Asian-Americans who aren't happy about being Asian-Americans. But they and hispanics are not exactly fighting mad to change it because they have an outlet, they can always see great films of people who reflect who they are and their culture.

Minor point -- I think it's perfectly fair game to bring up other minority superheroes here. See my above comment about Titanic survivors griping over driftwood .

That said, I watch and enjoy movies from Hong Kong and China, but they don't show my history or my culture because I'm not from China or Hong Kong. I was born in Brooklyn, NY, and I identify my values and my culture with America far more than I do with China -- a point driven home even more thoroughly now that I've actually BEEN to China (first time -- only took about 34 years ). I've known 3rd and 4th generation Asian-Americans who have few or no ties to their ancestors' country of origin. As much as I may enjoy a Kurosawa film or Zhang Yimou's Hero or a Hong Kong John Woo film (the comedies and the action films), all of them are still foreign films to me. I imagine Latino and Hispanic people born here feel the same way. They're not good enough for me, and even if they were, there aren't anywhere near enough of them making it over here for it to balance out.

As for John Stewart as Green Lantern, I still maintain that past history isn't a good enough reason to force the Timm-era Justice League GL to be Hal. If you mention Green Lantern to the average Joe on the street, 90% of them are not going to say "Hal Jordan," they're going to say, "Who?" Beyond the really big names, the majority of people in the demographic Hollywood aims for (18-an age between 34 and 45) did not grow up reading comics (if not actively laughing at the people who did) and does not know who anybody is beyond the headliners (a list I'd restrict to Superman, Batman, Spidey, and Wonder Woman, with MAYBE Wolverine, the Hulk, and Captain America in there, too). If anybody in the general public knows about Green Lantern, it's probably from Superfriends, but I can think of exactly one episode where they even identified him by name. If nobody knows who the character is other than the ever-shrinking comic-book fanbase, who cares what color they are? I think making Nick Fury black is pretty cool, myself.

I'll also second Web Head's recommendation of Runaways on how to use minority characters well (now available as a manga-sized TPB -- Ace sez check it out). Alex and Nico (the Japanese-American witch) are terrific characters who are incidentally minorities, which is (IMO) the way handle them properly.

Finally, as for respecting the past heroes, I say that's OK, but only to a point. Charlie Chan or Mr. Moto are a part of Asian heroes in the movies, and I can understand and sympathize with why they're cool characters, but I still can't stand either one of them. If they are to be resurrected, I'd prefer appropriation rather than a straight remake, as this guy did with a Mr. Moto comic book. If I'm going to see a new Charlie Chan, I want him to be a foul-mouthed, ill-tempered, former Marine working as a PI in San Francisco who's smarter than everybody else around him but still far more likely to deck you than quote Confucious.

-- Ed/Ace

 

[Redi]

One of the reasons why I stopped reading comics was because I didn't see any respectable characters that looked like me...

Storm has long white hair, blue eyes, and was usually drawn as a white woman with brown skin(last time I saw the comic version). Bishop had a jeri curl...in 1991...

Then there were the black characters who had some sort of race inspired name or power....or the back story of a gangbanger gone straight.

It just got really annoying and which is why I started creating my own stories and characters. However, I'm a realist. Getting something like that off the ground is hard enough but adding the factor of characters who just happen to be black...I seriously doubt I'll ever get anywhere with it.

Its been a dream of mine to give black fans of sci-fi/fanatasy more characters that look like them...while giving people of other races a chance to see that black people aren't always the stereotype they see on television. But I'm a realist...

 

[Web Head]

not to put a damper in your positive post, but all those things aside, Alex has one thing working agaisnt him that also plagues black heroes and thats the fact that he's affiliated with others in a group. He's not clearly the star, and while he has all of those positive points going for him, there's still gonna be someone else that might steal the show from him.

I have to confess that I've only read the first trade which I discovered while manga shopping at my local Borders. So I'm ignorant after the first 5 or 6 issues, but from those few it looked like Alex's "power" was intelligence and strategy and that he was the natural leader. I understand and agree with the team thing but at least Alex seemed to be leading (thus he should be getting the most focus)

I don't see why I can't get a perfect Steel,Fantastic Four,Black Lightning and Flash. I mean this is Hollywood I mean comic book characters that are not really known like Blade,Hellboy, and Elektra can't get made into feature films and where really well known characters like Wonder Woman,Captin America and Thor can't get made into films. It shouldn't matter this chartacter is more well known than this character because to the general audience knowledge about them is almost all the same.

The problem with that is that while a Hellboy makes modest progress in continuing the comic movie trend, a bomb like the upcoming Catwoman can do significant damage. It's not going to take a lot of bombs to end what I'm sure studios think of as this "fad". Studios need to be selective and not toss money at any character property that's hit print so they're naturally going to gravatate towards more successful franchises.

My point is, why are so many of you so offended, when a black man takes the place of a white man in the same role that the white man previously fills? do most of you feel that that the black male is inferior? I dont understand it at all. (now this qestion might not pertain to the lot of you in this thread, but I was refereing to the masses.)

I think the objection in most cases is less race than it is the nature of comic fanboys. When Spiderman was in development there was an outcry because Raimi had the unmitigated audacity to make his web shooters an organic part of his body instead of a mechanical device Pete invented. People got upset over such a minute and unimportant part of the Spiderman mythos.

Fanboys (of which I am a member, moderate though I may be) want their comic heroes exactly how they appear on page. In a Superman movie I think you would get equivalent fan outrage if either a) Jimmy Olsen were black or b) Jimmy Olsen was white but without his bright red hair.

 

[Animelee]

In my humble opinion -- why should we care what colour the characters are? I mean, we're all homo-sapiens from Africa, correct? The only reason most of us have lighter and darker skin is because of where our ancestors come from. I mean, if you're a "black" person living in America, and all your descendants continue living and breeding in America, they're going to be "reddish-brown" in about six thousand years, or so. I'm "brown", because my parents come from Sri Lanka and Guyana, but I was born in Canada, so I'm signifigantly lighter-skinned than they are, and because I'm homeschooled and barely go outside, I'm almost as "pink" as a "white" person. Seriously, we're all the same, there is no such thing as "race", so why should it matter how much melanin a character has in their skin?

Yeesh, I speak with a Canadian-American accent, and other brown people tell me I'm too "white" because I don't speak with a pseudo-West Indian accent. My best friend, who happens to be Chinese, is told by other Chinese people that he's a disgrace because he's too "white bread". My friends who come from Jamaica who speak proper English with a Canadian-American accent are also critisized for being to "white".

I know I went off-topic, but my point is that, well, race does exist -- the human race. Don't go telling me that there's a "black" race, a "white" race, etc. That's utter BS. I know "white" people that are into rap culture, and because of that, they're known as "wiggers", which is BS. Many people use the term "race" to describe different cultures, which is annoying and ignorant.

I like Static, I like Spider-Man, I like Batman. Not because of the amount of melanin their skin contains, but because of their personalities and stories.

 

[Slade_Wilson]

You had me up until this. First of all, this thread isn't mainly about white characters turning black for film. The only comic book characters to do that have been Kingpin. Nick Fury starring Sam Jackson is not a reality just yet. And also, as black male, I will say that I prefered Jim West as a white man, only because I don't buy Will Smith's Jim West as a Secret Agent working for the President. This is where you can take that changing ethnicity of characters too far, it just isn't believable. And I don't care how many Blacks really did work for the president as Secret Agent, don't ruin someone else's franchise. As an artist, I find that personally offensive to the creators of the original story and concept of the Wild Wild West]

The point he is trying to make is the fact that people have always had a problem with certain characters being changed black be it in movies,television, or comics. Kingpin may be the only example in movies, but you have other characters such as Captain America and Greeen Lantern that have been met with vicious critism about the color of their skin. It's a factor that I think contributes to the failure of black hero fanbases, as it would turn away fans of this reinvented character, as well as the character that was originally reinvented. It's definently ok to reinvent a franchise as long as you do it justice.There's no disrespcet in it at all since it would be no different from an artist that remakes a classic song from a past artist.

 

[Nick K.]

In my humble opinion -- why should we give a **** on what colour the characters are? I mean, we're all homo-sapiens from Africa, correct? The only reason most of us have lighter and darker skin is because of where our ancestors come from. I mean, if you're a "black" person living in America, and all your descendants continue living and breeding in America, they're going to be "reddish-brown" in about six thousand years, or so. I'm "brown", because my parents come from Sri Lanka and Guyana, but I was born in Canada, so I'm signifigantly lighter-skinned than they are, and because I'm homeschooled and barely go outside, I'm almost as "pink" as a "white" person. Seriously, we're all the same, there is no such thing as "race", so why should it matter how much melanin a character has in their skin?

Yeesh, I speak with a Canadian-American accent, and other brown people tell me I'm too "white" because I don't speak with a pseudo-West Indian accent. My best friend, who happens to be Chinese, is told by other Chinese people that he's a disgrace because he's too "white bread". My friends who come from Jamaica who speak proper English with a Canadian-American accent are also critisized for being to "white".

I know I went off-topic, but my point is that, well, race does exist -- the human race. Don't go telling me that there's a "black" race, a "white" race, etc. That's utter ********. I know "white" people that are into rap culture, and because of that, they're known as "wiggers", which is ********. Many people use the term "race" to describe different cultures, which is ****ing annoying and ******* ignorant.

I like Static, I like Spider-Man, I like Batman. Not because of the amount of melanin their skin contains, but because of their personalities and stories.

I agree. I like and believe in the idea of one race. The human race. Good work spreading the message.

 

[GL2k2]

The point he is trying to make is the fact that people have always had a problem with certain characters being changed black be it in movies,television, or comics. Kingpin may be the only example in movies, but you have other characters such as Captain America and Greeen Lantern that have been met with vicious critism about the color of their skin. It's a factor that I think contributes to the failure of black hero fanbases, as it would turn away fans of this reinvented character, as well as the character that was originally reinvented. It's definently ok to reinvent a franchise as long as you do it justice.There's no disrespcet in it at all since it would be no different from an artist that remakes a classic song from a past artist.

Green Lantern didn't turn black, the current character representing the corps is black (John Stewart). There are many Green Lanterns in the Corps. Captain America didn't turn black either, we are referring to comic book that takes place before Steve Rogers was given the super serum, so in essence and according the Truth, Captain America turned white. The only characters I know that turned black in comics were the Punisher and Nick Fury.

And I still am not convince that doing that contributes to the failure of black characters. The failure is black audiences laugh at black sci-fi because it usually isn't from the vision of a black standpoint. Most the black characters we have were created by whites. When black people in the industry get serious about making sci-fi then we'll see a turn out. And one director who at least has tried to make good black horror films is not making enough money to sustain doing it (in ref: Ernest Dickerson) for a career. There was a convention last year called Black to the Future for Black sci-fi enthusiasts, it was an experiment, but apparently it didn't do great. Mostly because it wasn't announced everywhere in the world, and some find it racist. But it was a celebrations of authors (Tanarive Due, Steven Barnes) who I know, and other sci-fi actors creators and even films (Brother From Another Planet, Tales From the Hood) that I know of. And if other people don't know them, then who are the real racists?

 

[Slade_Wilson]

Green Lantern didn't turn black, the current character representing the corps is black (John Stewart). There are many Green Lanterns in the Corps. Captain America didn't turn black either, we are referring to comic book that takes place before Steve Rogers was given the super serum, so in essence and according the Truth, Captain America turned white. The only characters I know that turned black in comics were the Punisher and Nick Fury.

And I still am not convince that doing that contributes to the failure of black characters. The failure is black audiences laugh at black sci-fi because it usually isn't from the vision of a black standpoint. Most the black characters we have were created by whites. When black people in the industry get serious about making sci-fi then we'll see a turn out. And one director who at least has tried to make good black horror films is not making enough money to sustain doing it (in ref: Ernest Dickerson) for a career. There was a convention last year called Black to the Future for Black sci-fi enthusiasts, it was an experiment, but apparently it didn't do great. Mostly because it wasn't announced everywhere in the world, and some find it racist. But it was a celebrations of authors (Tanarive Due, Steven Barnes) who I know, and other sci-fi actors creators and even films (Brother From Another Planet, Tales From the Hood) that I know of. And if other people don't know them, then who are the real racists?

you're so correct in everything that you said. I never said that it was the number one contributer, but it certainly helps, not matter if it was a different person, or the same person redone.The main point I'm making is that because his skin was black, it created problems.

I to have said that its not taken seriously, as it was mentioned in a previous post.but the only way we can go about fixing it is by making them more prevelent.

 

[Nick K.]

And if other people don't know them, then who are the real racists?

I don't understand this comment. Elaborate, please.

And as far as turning Nick Fury black. He wasn't turned black but has always been black in the Ultimate Universe. This is a rebooted universe so he is black. He is still white in the 616 Marvel Universe. But in the end, I don't think it should matter...