"Marvel's What If...?" Season Two Talkback (Spoilers)

[RoyalRubble]

Space. Time. Reality. It's more than a linear path.

Marvel's What If...? Season 2
Debut - December 22, 2023 (on Disney+) with a new episode premiering each night until the 30th

With a new episode debuting nightly beginning December 22, Season 2 of What If…? continues the journey as The Watcher guides viewers through the vast multiverse, introducing new and familiar faces throughout the MCU. The series questions, revisits, and twists classic Marvel Cinematic moments with an incredible voice cast that includes a host of stars who reprise their iconic roles. Featuring fan-favorite characters this season like Nebula, Hela, and Happy Hogan, episodes are directed by Bryan Andrews (Episodes 2-9) and Stephan Franck (Episode 1) and written by AC Bradley (Episodes 3, 4, 5, 8), Matthew Chauncey (Episodes 1-3, 7, 9) and Ryan Little (Episodes 6, 8). The animated series is executive produced by Brad Winderbaum, Kevin Feige, Louis D’Esposito, Victoria Alonso, Bryan Andrews, and AC Bradley.

Marvel's What If...?
Season 2, Episode 1 - What If Nebula Joined the Nova Corps?
Episode Debut - December 22, 2023

In a world where Ronan deposes Thanos long before the events of “Infinity War,” Nebula is recruited to join the Nova Corps. Desperate to escape her father’s shadow, she sets out to prove her detective chops.

Comments?

We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!

Additionally, please use Spoiler Tags if you wish to discuss the events of an episode in other threads outside this Talkback for the first 7 days after its premiere.

Related Links:
"Marvel's What If?" (Disney+ Animated Series) News & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...? (Disney+)" News & Discussion Thread, Part 2 (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...?" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)
"Marvel Animation on Disney+" News & Discussion (Spoilers)
"Marvel on Disney+" Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 8 (Spoilers)
"Marvel Cinematic Universe" News & Discussion, Part 9 (Spoilers)

 

[Fone Bone]

What If...? "What If... Nebula Joined The Nova Corps?"

I hate the What If...? Comics but the cartoon is pretty cool. It's a great premise and the comics wreck it nearly every time. Every time the Watcher asks the question in the comics it always ends in tragedy for the characters and the Universe explored. Not only does that fact make the comic less interesting. But it suggests the heroes' victory in the mainline continuity is down to nothing more than random luck instead of the heroes actually being awesome. The cartoon, instead of rubbing our faces in how close to disaster we were, explores different takes and ideas in the Multiverse. Some ARE super depressing tragedies. But it's better than the comic because sometimes it just explores a neat premise.

This is a neat premise. There is less Guardians Of The Galaxy in the tone, and more Blade Runner.

I have come to believe Howard The Duck is the Bill Murray of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. You see him rarely, but when you do, you always wish he had a bigger role (and he seldom does). The MCU refuses to turn Howard into Kenneth from 30 Rock, who upon positive fan response was overused until we were all sick of him. He's deliberately underutilized the way Murray always is, or (if you need another sitcom simile) Creed from The Office. Howard's rare appearances seem to be rare to make maximum impact.

Here is why the MCU actually sucks, and it's the receipt for every bad thing its detractors have ever said about it. Quantumania is the first and so far only movie in cinema history in which Bill Murray has a role, and is not the best thing in it. If you ask me, that means Kevin Feige needs to hang his head in shame for that embarrassing fact. If Feige were thinking properly he would have cast Murray as Howard instead of Seth Green to begin with. No-brainer really.

Yeah, I kinda dig the cartoon. Sue me. ***1/2.

 

[Rick Jones]

I loved Gamora in the sort of noir detective role. She gave me strong Judge Dredd vibes but that might have been the Nova helmet. I enjoyed the episode. The small moments with the humor characters did match the tone for me though.

 

[Frontier]

The MCU takes on dark, gritty, sci-fi noir! This may as well have been a Bladerunner tribute .

Wow, it was that easy for Ronan to take out Thanos and take over? Not that they really do much with it. Did he have the Power Stone? Did he just use careful strategy? It's just hard for me to believe it happened and they don't really dwell on the how .

Also I love how they just show Thanos' helmet because they probably still haven't made a CG model of him in his armor .

This episode kind of relies on how little we really know about Nova Prime as a character. Is it believable that she would go out of her way to take in a stray like Nebula and give her a chance in the Nova Corps.? She did end up honoring the Guardians but it felt like Rhonann Dey (who was not in this) was more open to redemption and believing in people than she was. Then again she was also the villain, so....

So all these characters just happened to be in Xandar when the shield came down? I guess most of them were probably locked up by the Nova Corps to begin with. All the same, clever way of creating a dark sci-fi detective setting .

It was weird to see Groot without Rocket. I mean, we had Miek following Korg, so what gives? Was Groot on Xandar without him? Or did they just think there's no way Rocket would work with Howard .

Howard is basically becoming the "What If" guest appearance king because he always ends up doing something in most of these .

Whenever you need typical MCU humor, just add Korg! And he does all the typical Korg lines. And gets to imitate the Hulk, which is funny because he probably would never have seen him in this timeline .

I'm amazed they managed to get Jude Law back as Yon-Rogg. Then again, did this need to be Yon-Rogg? He came off more like your typical professional criminal rather than an elite and seasoned Kree military official. I mean, it all kind of came together because he'd obviously be on the side of a Kree extremist like Ronan (not that they really expand on that much), but still. I guess it just stands out that this was also the first time he's appeared since Captain Marvel and they didn't even bother to mention him in The Marvels .

I guess some things are the same though like him betraying a woman he works with or getting taken out like a chump .

So would the main Nova Prime have gone along with this? Are we meant to just assume being trapped in the shield corrupted her morals or was there always potential for her to sell out if given the right opportunity. Guess we'll never know because she's dead in either timeline .

I almost feel bad for Ronan that he once again gets taken out before he can really do anything...and in a way that makes you wonder why they never though to do that before .

Nebula looks like a gender-flip of Yondu in that getup. Not sure if that's complimentary either .

 

[RoyalRubble]

Another day, another "What If?" to ponder...

Marvel's What If...?
Season 2, Episode 2 - What If Peter Quill Attacked Earth's Mightiest Heroes?
Episode Debut - December 23, 2023

When Ego and a young Peter Quill threaten Earth in 1988, Howard Stark and Peggy Carter form a team.

Comments?

We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!

Additionally, please use Spoiler Tags if you wish to discuss the events of an episode in other threads outside this Talkback for the first 7 days after its premiere.

Related Links:
"Marvel's What If?" (Disney+ Animated Series) News & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...? (Disney+)" News & Discussion Thread, Part 2 (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...?" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)
"Marvel Animation on Disney+" News & Discussion (Spoilers)
"Marvel on Disney+" Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 8 (Spoilers)
"Marvel Cinematic Universe" News & Discussion, Part 9 (Spoilers)

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

You know it's been a .... pretty bad year for the MCU across the board. Yes Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3 was well received but everything else has been sinking pretty bad. Ant Man 3 once word of mouth got out sank really fast and it didn't even take that for The Marvels to flop as the WORST performing Marvel movie of all time. And Disney Plus wasn't doing that well either with how much of a disappointment Secret Invasion was in every way and even season 2 of Loki couldn't conjure up the same attention as the first. Still the MCU isn't fully out and one facet marvel seems to be doing a bit better in now then they have in previous years was animation. Granted it's been since what 2020/2021 and we still have no idea when the X-Men animated 97 is coming out but Moon Girl And Devil Dinosaur did well, I Am Groot seemed like a slight improvement and now we got What If Season 2. Which is the only Marvel streaming show that though not super beloved also the only one that you know IS a show with a full on beginning middle and ending most every episode and isn't just overly long movies without nearly as much as the action. Granted with how dismal the other series have done they are trying to advertise these differently but hey trying to do an episode a day and make it an event is an interesting practice and yeah I'm still pumped to check out the rest of these epsiodes out with how fairly good the first two these season have been so let's get to them shall we?

"What If Nebula Joined The Nova Corps" - You know though I get everyone has their own opinions and views on various works of fiction, some criticism of works generally annoys me and makes me feel like the person making that point is just complaining for the sake of complaining. One that especially annoys me about this show is people going "Oh well how come so and so is here or there when they wouldn't have been or are acting like this when they didn't in the other timeline?" I guess the criticism is made because the idea is suppose to be there's just ONE major change and the rest is supposed to be the same but... eh to me that's not really an interesting enough justification for like a full story on it's own so honestly I don't mind other changes if they are for the sake of the story. So I'm not going to be mad that just because this is a story about Nebula, we've got Yon-Rogg has a criminal instead of being one of the top Kree Soldiers or Ronan trying to break into Xandar but they've got this seemingly unbreakable dome that's kept him out for years or that there's a bar operated by Howard the Duck who has Groot and Korg has two of his enforcers/employees. The whole point of these episodes is take these familiar elements and DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT and honestly I am glad we are getting more very distinct differences right out of the gate. Season one had a very basic change that didn't really do much change for the characters or story. This though is going for a very different vibe and honestly I do feel that vibe and that attitude work well.

Granted it is a bit weird that this film noir/old school detective vibe is played super straight when typically nowadays you pile on jokes mocking the trope not really adding on to it. But I think it works with Nebula's character. I buy in this universe her actual finding some enjoyment and stability as an officer in the Nova Crops and wanting to dedicate herself to something finding some sort of faith and just doing her job well. It is a bit off and not quite as fun as the "What If T'Challa Was Star Lord" seeing her make quips about Howard's bar or "looks like we're going to swim through this" but honestly I appreciate this not really being as comedic. You did get some decent bits with Howard mostly his annoyance at his casino actually paying out on one of the machines or trying to claim he doesn't have any weapons and honestly though Korg had some good lines recognizing some of the soldiers as bad guys I am glad they majorly toned down Tailka Watiti's ranting that did get quite old in Love And Thunder. But honeslty the aspects played mostly straight worked. I do really dig the idea of how agitated and off people are feeling after 5 years in the dome and Nebula admitting she did feel generally hurt about Nova Prime's betrayal who just wanted the dome opened again and her as ruler (again regular Nova Prime wouldn't do that but I didn't come to this show for the regular take on these characters) after her and Yon-Rogg left Nebula for dead. And you know this is a good episode to have first because with how the last series went you don't know how dark or awful a lot of these universes will end considering how most episodes in season one were either bad endings or cliffhanger endings. But I'm glad we're not getting as many here and instead are going for happier endings and I will say the idea of the triple cross to take out Ronan and his ship Nebula had by rewriting the code was really good and thought out so well done there. I guess none of the action sequences were that terribly interesting nor any of the jokes really stood out but still a solid episode all around.

"What If Peter Quill Attacked Earth's Mightiest Heroes" - Now I do find it pointless to attack the episodes for doing something different but i do feel if they try and replicate a moment or idea from the movies and fail at that, it's worth commenting on. And we got there here in the finale between Quill and Ego. Like it's clear they are going for the moment of Ego revealing to Peter he took out his mom for the sake of him wanting to become a singularity and that being where Peter got back at his father realizing the truth but that is a moment that works a lot better in Guardians 2. Like not only was Guardians 2 dedicated to having time between that take on Peter and Ego, but there Ego at least did legit feel bad even if he cared more about his own plans while here he more quickly brushed it off as just human emotion plus having to work in "my mom called me Star Lord" did feel kind of lame. Also I know every Avengers team have to battle some sort of faceless army of creatures as that show's them making progress against some group and gives them all something to do but if Ego was just focusing on getting that seed and then totally overrunning the planet and was even annoyed at having to come to earth do that more directly felt there should have been more of a challenge with his earth creations then we really got. Oh also way to quickly rush through the whole Winter Soldier arc. That worked in the second Captain America because they weren't just mentioning Steve Rogers: It was Bucky actually SEEING and recognizing his old friend and seeing the limits he'd go through to save him not just someone else saying "oh Bucky we know it's you" like I do like the fact he was there and part of the team because of this greater threat but how that handled wasn't done very well.

However one thing I actually did really like that oddly enough did feel like it had the right amount of time devoted to it was the connection between the young Hope and the young Peter Quill. Again in this world some of the details I'm not going to sweat on like "how come the tape and head set was so important between Hope and Janet when that's not something we saw in the Ant Man movies at all" because honestly the whole point of that scene was through connecting these kids through their loss and I felt that was handled very well. Granted in Ant man and Guardians of the Galaxy how Hope and how Peter lost their moms were done very differently but I could easily see Hope recognizing that pain and how he was just a kid who wanted a family and even Hank admitting his own frustrations over Janet's loss and reaching out to the young Quill and it ending with him as part of the family/new Avengers team. Honestly to me one of the coolest ideas of What If is taking these very different sections of the Marvel world and combining them in ways you wouldn't ever get in the films or shows themselves and recognizing that family element in Guardians and Ant man and mashing it is a pretty spiffy idea. Plus I have to say I really did love the idea of this pretty much being "hey what would have been the previous generation Avengers". Like you still have a Thor who didn't feel that necessary here but I buy the whole "going from realm to realm tkaing out others" and it does make the threat seem even worse. I also really like having Wendy Lawson/Marv-Vell who doesn't have Tesseract powers but just has her ship and being the one more thikning of plans or providing the transporation. I also like how they made sure to make T'Chaka feel very different from T'Challa but still have that Black Panther spirit. I was going to ask "Okay I get not being able to get back Glenn Close or Annette Benning for their roles from Guaridans of the Galaxy/Captain marvel, but you couldn't get back John Kani?" But no this is YOUNG T'Chaka so they got back the guy who played Young T'Chaka in the black panther flashback so that makes perfect sense. Also really like the annoyance Hank has having to deal with Howard Stark and rivalry with Bill Foster and Foster using his powers to grow and then shrink down to take on the rock creatures were cool. I also do like the idea that the teased threat of Ego from the first season attacking earth we didn't spend time on we get an ep here showing the full scope of that and how immense a presence he is they really only win through earnestly connecting with Peter Quill which Ego didn't do. I don't need an episode seeing this new team go around the universe taking out Ego fragments but that is a cool note to end the ep on which yeah was still pretty good. Some issues stop me from liking it as much as the first but yeah still solid and hope the rest of the season is up to this quality level.

 

[Rick Jones]

This was much lighter in tone and more of a straightforward superhero story, which is not a problem for me. I really like these older, first generation heroes and it was neat getting to see an earlier hero team setup. A future team starting with a powered Starlord, alongside Hope, Tony and T'Challa would be pretty different as well. So many things would go differently in this timeline.

It never crossed my mind that Hope would play a factor in this episode but I liked that. Probably more than I liked the addition of Thor in the episode. Never Surrender is a fun song to bond over. Nice of someone to remember more than just Sunglasses at Night.

 

[Frontier]

"What If Yondu actually delivered Peter to Ego?" is such an obvious MCU What If that no surprise they finally did an episode based around that and a new spin on The Avengers .

As much as I love seeing struggling single dad Hank Pym, I really wish they had found some way to do a "retro Avengers" team with him and Janet. What do I have to do to get some animated Janet Van Dyne or to see her on an Avengers team ?

Y'know, if Hank brought Hope to work more they probably would have avoided the entire plot of Ant-Man .

Oh yeah, MTV was a thing back then .

They kind of breezed through a lot of the recruitment of the team. I know the threat of a cosmic empowered kid is a lot, but would that be enough for T'Chaka to throw in with the American government? For them to expose the Winter Soldier? Wasn't Bucky just serving Hydra and not the Russian government? Also did Mar-Vell reveal herself because of this situation or did SHIELD always know she was Kree ?

But hey, Laurence Fishburne as Bill Foster, finally getting to be Black Goliath (called Goliath in the credits)! They even gave him his own suit in his comic colors !

Is that the first time they've confirmed in MCU canon that T'Chaka's father (and T'Challa's grandfather) gave them the Vibranium they needed to make Captain American's shield ?

It's funny how much this retro team ended up evoking/mimicking a classic Avengers team or even the MCU legacies. Hank is as snarky as Stark (and Janet) and is finally Ant-Man on an Avengers team, T'Chaka is basically serving the same role T'Challa does on an Avengers team, Winter Soldier is basically Black Widow, Mar-Vell comes off like Carol without powers, and Bill serves as the team Giant-Man. And of course you have to have a Thor .

I like how Peter got a racoon plushie .

I also thought it was amusing how Howard and Peggy immediately recognized Bucky but had to dismiss it because they needed to focus on the plot...until they needed to talk Bucky down. This was definitely abbreviated from when Steve did it in his movie, but of course playing the Steve Rogers card is what worked .

It was surreal seeing Hemsworth play a more serious version of Thor again. I guess the Nine Realms are basically planets so it makes sense they'd get hit by Ego eventually. And just like in the original Avengers movie we have the team debating what to do about the prisoner in their midst .

While cute, I found Hope stealing her dads' stuff and freeing their prisoner a bit silly. That could have ended very badly. Though this was all about supporting the kids, so I guess it worked out the way it was intended .

"You don't have a kid, do you Wendy?" - Well, no, Hank they still won't confirm Hulking exists yet .

"By Odin's Beard!" - Wait, is that the first time Hemsworth's Thor has actually said that iconic Thor line ?

EMH Hank would be so proud of this Hank for talking Peter into helping them and relating to him like a father would to a child and practically adopting him .

New timeline but same old Ego exposing the fact that he killed Peter's mom to him and basically giving Peter more than enough motivation to Spirit Gun him away. Also, it was kind of fun having Michael Douglas and Kurt Russel in the same scene together .

And like with any Avengers movie we need the scene of the whole team hanging out after a mission won...and then planning to take down Ego in planet form. Although are they really taking Hope with them .

 

[RoyalRubble]

I'm dreaming of a "What If" Christmas, unlike the ones I used to know...

Marvel's What If...?
Season 2, Episode 3 - What If Happy Hogan Saved Christmas?
Episode Debut - December 24, 2023

Avengers Tower is under attack during the holiday party and it’s up to Happy Hogan to stop it.

Comments?

We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!

Additionally, please use Spoiler Tags if you wish to discuss the events of an episode in other threads outside this Talkback for the first 7 days after its premiere.

Related Links:
"Marvel's What If?" (Disney+ Animated Series) News & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...? (Disney+)" News & Discussion Thread, Part 2 (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...?" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)
"Marvel Animation on Disney+" News & Discussion (Spoilers)
"Marvel on Disney+" Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 8 (Spoilers)
"Marvel Cinematic Universe" News & Discussion, Part 9 (Spoilers)

 

[Fone Bone]

What If...? "What If... Peter Quill Attacked Earth's Mightiest Heroes?"

It's not exactly a great episode, but it's why the cartoon is better than the comics. It's a canon variation, instead of a tragedy, which is way more interesting. Plus I really liked the ending. That last shot of this Universe's version of the 1980's Avengers was cool.

And even as a kid, Peter IS the Starlord. ***1/2.

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

"What If Happy Hogan Saved Christmas" - Say what you want about MCU Disney Plus Content but you gotta admit they at least always deliver something of quality for Christmas. Hawkeye took awhile to get going but ended up being one of the better overall series, and Guardians last year had a really amusing special. Then we have this episode which... isn't quite as entertaining but one thing I will give this show is I think they are getting better at handling tones then we got in the last season. The thing is with this kind of series each episode is really it's own thing so works best when it sticks to one specific kind of tone which a lot of the worst episodes of the last season (especially "What If... Zombies?") were at their worst trying to juggle between. This one just needed to be a goofy comedic farce and not really try for and like intense emotion or twists or heartbreak and yeah that's what it did so props there. I will say though this is one of those "we are loving the chance to just make a bunch of Christmas puns as jokes" which yeah does make sense but like only half of those really hit and there are a fair amount of groaners. Like Justin Hammer calling himself Santa and Darcy descelating the others fighting Happy Hulk by saying he's not naughty. I mean some certainly do work but if these sort of puns and bits are not your thing there's no way you will enjoy this episode. Also though there were some good references to it like Darcy recalling Reginald VelJohnson's character, the whole Die Hard angle has been done better in shows that could be more direct about it. Like Rick and Morty and yeah even The Cleveland Show. Granted that isn't where all the jokes and references came from here, and you know at least Die Hard as a parody isn't super terribly common, but this is not one of the great ones.

Still I would say most of the comedy work. I give massive props for bringing Sam Rockwell as Justin Hammer back who yeah between his petiness and desire to be seen as this great innovator even if he is just this sneaky jerk works really well as a comedic villian. I know Iron Man 2 didn't have a lot of fans but sans the "All Hail To The King" short how come this is the only time he's come back in the MCU? Eh sure he will for Armor Wars but I dig the use of him here and he did have some good lines trying to reference his backstory that's just the plot of A Christmas Story "No way Tony pays you enough to want to fight for him like this." Speaking of characters one might consider rather annoying I think are actually funny I dig Darcy in here between her calling Hogan Puffin 2 as a code name and then just being sent away cause she was annoying Happy and I admit her thinking Santa was real as the Hulk Buster armor came in was a great laugh. Think my favorite though either had to be her picking out the Werner AI and it performing a Werner Hernzog esque monologue and not being useful whatsoever, or Maria Hill straight up asking her "have you ever had an actual PAYING job" and Darcy admitting she hadn't. Like that joke alone honestly was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better then anything Maria Hill related in Secret Invasion so... yeah Cobie Smulders best work as this character were in the alternate canon cartoon series (this and Moon girl and Devil Dinosaur) then canon MCU.

I also think it's nice giving Happy Hogan an actual spotlight for once. I mean Jon Favreau was one of the main creative talents who actually turned the MCU into this massive brand and though Hogan has had moments in the Iron Man and spider Man MCU movies always as support so it was nice actually seeing him take center stage. From managing to crawl through the elevator shaft and get that hulk blood injected him as he tried dialing around saying there's nothing wrong with calling for back up and then finding out all the others were busy (though Clint having to buy a toy for his kids with Bruce and Steve and Tony having to work as Santas and Thor just being late and only showing up at the end, was pretty funny really dug the idea of Natasha being in the middle of an assingment as a ballerina and still showing up dressed as one later. They don't usually show engaged in the more sillier antics like that but it works for a story like this and the "I'm dealing with an assassin who killed 17 agents" "18 actually there was the one in Ukraine" "Oh that was you?" was great) and then doing the Die Hard esque bit to crash through the floor to take out the bots and then wailing on them and his whole fight with the stolen Hulkbuster and asking if there was a Hulk antidote were great. Same with Darcy calling him the best boss ever and him saying "that means a lot coming from someone whose probably had a lot of bosses." And again glad they aren't trying to give this one a sense of drama or like big point about proving himself and just letting it be a goofy scenario. Again I don't care if the Avengers in the main verse wouldn't gather just for a holiday party or how in this verse Justin hammer managed to get out of jail and blah blah. I just wanted a fun christmas time and that's what I got. So yeah all around solid episode. I think last seasons "what if Thor was an only child" was probably funnier but still a goofy fun christmas episode and that's exactly what I wanted here.

 

[Rick Jones]

I was looking forward to this episode for all of it's holiday trappings but I still hadn't considered just how humor heavy it was going to be, and this humor just doesn't work on me. The Hulk Hogan line did get a mental smirk from me, as it was something that never crossed my mind. I remember Favreau joking about wanting to play The Freak before, so I guess he got his Christmas wish.

It's a shame that Marvel is cutting the Special Presentations already. I could have seen an extended holiday episode of What If...? (not this particular story) being released as a special presentation instead of being a Season 2 episode. This turned out to be my least favorite of the three episodes so far.

"What If Yondu actually delivered Peter to Ego?" is such an obvious MCU What If that no surprise they finally did an episode based around that and a new spin on The Avengers .

As much as I love seeing struggling single dad Hank Pym, I really wish they had found some way to do a "retro Avengers" team with him and Janet. What do I have to do to get some animated Janet Van Dyne or to see her on an Avengers team ?

Y'know, if Hank brought Hope to work more they probably would have avoided the entire plot of Ant-Man .

Oh yeah, MTV was a thing back then .

They kind of breezed through a lot of the recruitment of the team. I know the threat of a cosmic empowered kid is a lot, but would that be enough for T'Chaka to throw in with the American government? For them to expose the Winter Soldier? Wasn't Bucky just serving Hydra and not the Russian government? Also did Mar-Vell reveal herself because of this situation or did SHIELD always know she was Kree ?

But hey, Laurence Fishburne as Bill Foster, finally getting to be Black Goliath (called Goliath in the credits)! They even gave him his own suit in his comic colors !

Is that the first time they've confirmed in MCU canon that T'Chaka's father (and T'Challa's grandfather) gave them the Vibranium they needed to make Captain American's shield ?

"You don't have a kid, do you Wendy?" - Well, no, Hank they still won't confirm Hulking exists yet .

Also, it was kind of fun having Michael Douglas and Kurt Russel in the same scene together .

And like with any Avengers movie we need the scene of the whole team hanging out after a mission won...and then planning to take down Ego in planet form. Although are they really taking Hope with them .

I always wonder what someone who was only familiar with Jan in the MCU would think when they're exposed to EMH or Anime Wasp. I know people that still get surprised at Hank not being an old man canonically.

I have wondered if Star-Lord would have really been considered a big enough threat for Mar-Vell to expose herself but I guess planets were actually being destroyed out there.

It's easy for me to forget that two of the biggest 80s movie stars are in this 80s episode playing good dad and bad dad.

Everytime I see potential Young Avengers lineups, it annoys me that Hulking isn't really in consideration. He's a core part of why I love the original Young Avengers.

It's cool to see T'Challa's granddad connected to Cap in some way. He didn't even have to knock Steve around here.

 

[Fone Bone]

What If...? "What If... Happy Hogan Saved Christmas?"

This is why I like the cartoon better than the comics. That was delightful.

Hulk Hogan! Ha!

I love that when Hammer threatens her Darcy is all, "But I'm adorable!" as if that explains anything. What a doof. Her singing over the end credits was funny too.

I really hope Tony is able to cure Happy.

The Watcher seemed to be having fun with this Universe.

Great episode. *****.

 

[Frontier]

If Hawkeye was the MCU's first Christmas show, this was their first animated Christmas episode. Even the Watcher got into it with his narration .

Though, honestly...did this need to be a What If? Most of this plot feels like something that wouldn't be out of place in the main MCU unless they don't want Happy "Freak" Hogan to be canon, otherwise you could genuinely slot it into the Avengers -> AoU timeline. Even when the Watcher tried to explain the distinction it's just...what if Justin Hammer thought a long time about how to get back at Tony. As if that's something the main Justin Hammer hasn't thought about .

All the same, it was nice to see Avengers Tower again (even if it, of course, got trashed) and the original six Avengers together again for an episode and I love getting more Happy Hogan .

There's Darcy with her typical snarky, irreverent, Darcy humor. She bounces off Happy pretty well and she and Hammer are very like-minded when it comes to their jokes. I love the gag about her having never had a paying job up to this point or how she remembers Reginald VelJohnson but not Die Hard .

Isn't Maria Hill a little above planning a Christmas Party? Why would SHIELD need to be involved with this? I guess I shouldn't complain about more Cobie Smolders. Surprised Fury didn't turn up .

What do the Avengers do during the Holidays? Tony plays Santa, Steve joins in and has to bat away horny moms, Natasha fights a fellow female assassin while dressed for the nutcracker (I want to see how that ended), Clint has to pick up a toy for his kids (Tony can't hook him up?) and Bruce has to maintain his cool. Oh, and Thor is fashionably late, as always .

Fans have demanded it and Sam Rockwell has always been down for it, but Justin Hammer finally returns! If only in a What If special. But I'm not complaining !

Experimenting on Hulk blood never ends well .

Honestly I didn't need to see Happy turn into a purple Hulk, but I appreciated the nod to his obscure "Freak" days, even if I went into this expecting more Die Hard and less Hulk Christmas special. Actually kind of reminded me of when Norman Osborn turned into a purple Hulk .

Oh, so a Hulk CAN defeat a Hulkbuster if he's properly motivated !

Ross Marquand does an uncanny Werner Herzog impression. I genuinely thought it was him for a second! Did he actually call the Avengers or was he too nihilistic to even do that much ?

Oh hey, they recreated the AoU team charge moment, just dressed up festively !

I kind of wanted to see a Hulk vs Freak fight but that probably would've been too obvious...

Notice that Tony never confirmed whether he had a cure for Happy's condition, so in this universe he might be stuck that way .

 

[RoyalRubble]

It's time for a new, wacky "What If"...

Marvel's What If...?
Season 2, Episode 4 - What If Iron Man Crashed Into the Grandmaster?
Episode Debut - December 25, 2023

Tony Stark challenges The Grandmaster, leading to a grand prix-turned-demolition-derby death match.

Comments?

We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!

Additionally, please use Spoiler Tags if you wish to discuss the events of an episode in other threads outside this Talkback for the first 7 days after its premiere.

Related Links:
"Marvel's What If?" (Disney+ Animated Series) News & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...? (Disney+)" News & Discussion Thread, Part 2 (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...?" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)
"Marvel Animation on Disney+" News & Discussion (Spoilers)
"Marvel on Disney+" Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 8 (Spoilers)
"Marvel Cinematic Universe" News & Discussion, Part 9 (Spoilers)

 

[Rick Jones]

Rewatching Episode 3 before Episode 4 is available and I'm really wondering when this would take place. Maria Hill is addressed as Director, of SHIELD I'm guessing, so the events of Winter Soldier hasn't happened... at least not yet. Iron Man's drones are in operation, which happens after Iron Man 3 but before Age of Ultron. I don't think Thor returned to Earth until The Dark World. It's nice to see stuff that I might have missed the first time, and I can appreciate it a bit more the second time. Is it wrong that I want to see Natasha's Nutcracker mission?

On another note, as far as animated dancing Sam Rockwells go, it's fun that they did it here, although it's not quite as good as in The Bad Guys.

 

[Frontier]

It's funny how they handled introducing this segment. Like Uatu going "hey, remember Thanos Gamora from the finale of last season? Well, let's look back and do her story now because we totally skipped over it." And because of that you can't easily slot this into season 1 like it should be because they basically talk as if you'd already watched season 1. It's a mess .

Heck, Gamora isn't even the lead character in this, Tony is, though she is basically the co-lead more or less. But I guess the What If Christmas gift was several episodes where Tony doesn't die and also one where he really gets to strut his hero stuff as Iron Man .

So really this is What If Iron Man got blasted to Sakaar after Avengers 1? Though honestly that makes me wonder how many things would change on Earth with Tony gone. Would IM3 happen differently? Would there be no Avengers Tower? Would the team have gone in a different direction? At what point in Phase 2 would Tony have made it back ?

This episode was worth it just for Tony going toe-to-toe with the Grandmaster. It's not exactly RDJ vs Jeff Goldblum, but it'll do. Add in sci-fi death race, and you've got plenty to enjoy .

Here's Korg because you can never have too much Korg (supposedly). At least having him in a Sakaar episode makes sense. It's kind of funny how he, Valkyrie, and another Avenger always end up taking down the Grandmaster .

So the Grandmaster totally would have found an excuse to keep Tony there with or without him interfering, right ?

It's funny how they shove Tony and Gamora into a lovenest room when they've actually slept together in the comics .

One thing that made me wonder...wasn't Gamora already working against her father by this point? Would she really be so bent on killing someone on her fathers' orders or for his honor like this ?

"Demon in a bottle" - It's funny because Tony said it himself .

I love more Topaz screentime. Her excited yell being in the same monotone was priceless .

Tony and Gamora relating over their daddy issues and trying to surpass them was not what I was expecting, but it surprisingly worked

Is there anything more Iron Man than an armor that can transform into a car? How about an Arc Reactor Nitro Boost ?

Honestly Valkyrie as King of Sakaar (at least MCU Sakaar) fits better than her ruling what's left of Asgard. Though are they so fixated on making her king as breaking gender norms or just because she's so masculine and would probably take up a more feminine queen ?

I'm going to believe that the reason they didn't finish this episode was because they had to take the time to make up Thanos' armor. And they didn't even really animate it, just his face! Though really it should take more to take down Thanos, but I guess that's par for the course for What If. Of course he's the only one who actually recognizes Tony as Iron Man .

I guess even Elders of the Universe can survive getting reduced to a puddle .

 

[Neo Ultra Mike]

"What If Iron Man Crashed Into The Grandmaster" - Oh hey they actually did acknowledge that this was the "episode that was supposed to be in season one we didn't make in time" by pointing out "this is the story behind the Gamora that wound up joining the Guardians of the Multiverse". Though ironically enough despite that being the premise we had to arrive at as that's something we already knew in season one... it's the weakest part of this particular episode. Look again I'm not someone who criticizes a What If episode if the scenarios and circumstances behind events happening are different outside the one element they clarify. Here the element is "what if Tony Stark wound up on Sakarr after he went in a worm hole in the Avengers". And I don't mind there being a time space delay in people on Sakaar knowing that about Tony and cheering for him or Gamora actually being sent to kill Stark since yeah in the main MCU films Thanos wasn't super bothered about Tony after the defeat of the Chitari since it made him more aware of where the specific stones were as he was only really planning on obtaining them directly once he knew where they all were but again I don't bother that being different here. Heck I don't even mind that it's clear this is a much more loyal Gamora who truly defines herself as a daughter of Thanos and wasn't like more indoctrinated into that particular lifestyle by being raised by Thanos. I do think it's a mistake though to go with THAT version of the character and try and built up a redemption and connection with Tony/Iron Man within the space of just like an episode where there isn't really room for that. In the guardians movie it made sense as you could tell Gamora had come to that conclusion on her own and heck even the most past Gamora in Endgame being shown the light because it was by Nebula her adopted sister who it'd make sense even in a differing timeline she'd find a connection to. I think I said before I do like What Ifs mixing and matching different characters from different universes but the connections still have to make sense. Young Hope getting through to young Peter Quill works because it is a Peter Quill who doesn't want to follow his father's words but has to but I don't buy that as much with Gamora here. IMHO what they should have done is have Gamora wanting to seek out Tony knowing he's the one who was behind the lost of the Chitari on earth and someone who Thanos wanted taking out and hatching a plan with him to take out her father like we saw at the end of the episode. Like have her constantly get interrupted and not able to spill the full plan until the end but have that be her motive thus why she and Tony team up like that. It can still end with Thanos's defeat because of the goo stick but yeah don't force in a half hearted connection/character moment here. I think I said before these work best if they are one emotion and this is a fun death race esque build up that didn't need scenes of Tony trying to convince Gamora to get over her daddy issues like he did. Took away from the fun. Also if we're talking negatives, this shows me why though the Grandmaster worked really well as a side villain in Ragnarock, why he would NOT have worked as a main antagonist throughout an entire movie cause too much of this guy goes a long way. Thankfully by "too much" it was really only at the end when he was being melted and making Wizard of Oz references and then you had the tag of him still being around which yeah were dumb and not really needed. Maybe the team just wanted Goldblum to improve how the character would die and still be around but eh it did get rather annoying.

I will say though till then the character was still very funny. Him not knowing how to even say earth and trying to compare his death race to ancient chariots even if the cars didn't look like that and trying to say it was his birthday and he doesn't look " a day over 21" and a lot of his lines were very funny and again this is a character who works for a very silly kind of show like some episodes of What If could be and they showed that off well. I do also like the runner of Tony looking for an actually good drink and Korg and Tony's banter especially when Korg thought Tony was giving him a signal when he wasn't doing anything were great and Valkyrie being named king after getting the Grandmaster melted were fun bits and you know I really did like the lay out of the race and how the Grandmaster agreed with it because it sounded fun and not wanting to think/be brought down with logic as yeah most of this episode worked. I just wish What If would stick to one tone and not try to deviate when it doesn't really have the time to do so. Then again this was a holdover so hopefully that was just a lesson that like shows the season one ness of this episode and not something they'll have the rest of the season. Still makes it one of the weaker since again trying to over bit on a specific dynamic they didn't even need to do here.

 

[RoyalRubble]

New "What If" today...

Marvel's What If...?
Season 2, Episode 5 - What If Captain Carter Fought the Hydra Stomper?
Episode Debut - December 26, 2023

Captain Carter’s mission to save Steve Rogers sets her on a collision course with new enemies.

Comments?

We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!

Additionally, please use Spoiler Tags if you wish to discuss the events of an episode in other threads outside this Talkback for the first 7 days after its premiere.

Related Links:
"Marvel's What If?" (Disney+ Animated Series) News & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...? (Disney+)" News & Discussion Thread, Part 2 (Spoilers)
"Marvel's What If...?" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)
"Marvel Animation on Disney+" News & Discussion (Spoilers)
"Marvel on Disney+" Pre-Release News & Discussion, Part 8 (Spoilers)
"Marvel Cinematic Universe" News & Discussion, Part 9 (Spoilers)

 

[Yojimbo]

Is that the first time they've confirmed in MCU canon that T'Chaka's father (and T'Challa's grandfather) gave them the Vibranium they needed to make Captain American's shield ?

Yes. The only other time it was mentioned how Howard got the Vibranium was in the Captain America: First Vengeance tie-in comic from 2011 (that's right, it 12 years but we got one more little detail about it). The scene took place in February 1940. Howard Stark presented vibranium to an audience in Los Angeles. He noted Stark Industries researchers discovered it in Africa. Very interesting nugget that King Azzuri, T'Chaka's father, was an ally of the SSR and donated it willingly to help the war effort. If that all holds true in the mainline MCU, of course.