"Stargirl" Season Three Talkback (Spoilers)

[Frontier]

I wonder what that picture was about. Were the Mahkents ostracized for their abilities?

Jeez, if Mike's bio mom was going to abandon him, at least leave him with his father instead of just straight up dropping him at a shelter. The lady sounds pretty scummy, but I can understand the idea of finding closure, if nothing else.

Courtney and Yolanda reconcile! Again! But at least Yolanda finally admitted she was (a little) wrong about Cindy and support Courtney.

Is Joel McHale filming something at the moment? Or just...doing something else? That's three episodes he's missed, two of which he just made voice cameos.

Poor, poor Mr. Deisinger...he didn't deserve that. Like, I don't care about the fact that they're not really monitoring the JSA, they deserve to go down for the grandma killing the art teacher and the pair of them covering it up.

Jakeem really has the heart of a hero. He's civic-minded about them doing their civilian job and cared more about making sure Cindy was okay than with one-upping the JSA.

I love how far Pat and Crusher's relationship has come that they can have a genuine heart-to-heart conversation that doesn't involve getting swole.

I wonder if they had put it to a vote if it'd be a tie. Honestly Beth seemed about 50/50 about agreeing to support Courtney. I'm glad Rick came around and gave a heartfelt speech about how much he cares about everybody even if him being roided out on Miraclo just made it worse.

Is this the first time we've seen Paula in her husbands' gym? Do they co-own it? I think Barbara could stand to use some self-defense training if nothing else. But it's nice that she's acknowledged Paula as a friend. Although does Paula not consider her husband a "friend?" Or maybe she means a female friend.

The Thunderbolt actually carried out a wish successfully! I also love how it's lecturing the boys about ethics. Oh, and apparently Cindy needs to routinely maintain her metal knife in case you were wondering about that...

Who taught Cameron how to fight!? That definitely did not seem like how an amateur would fight given how he was matching Rick blow for blow...and he actually won against fully-powered Hourman. Jeez.

They finally point out how Beth is useless in a fight...just in time to finally give her the ability to fight! Turns out the suit had a combat mode the whole time which lets Beth dodge attacks and then use whatever martial art suits her fancy. Not to mention a defibrillator so Dr. Mid-Nite can finally live up to her name and save someone medically.

I was not expecting Artemis to show up out of nowhere. How did she even know they were there!? Although it felt kind of full-circle watching her team-up with Beth after she tried to kill her in season 2.

I guess things could've been worse since they managed to save Cameron's grandpa and he's advocating for Cameron to not be ruled by hate...but I guess the jury's still out on how he'll react to Courtney, especially after he finds out what really happened to his father.

It's funny that in trying to find Cindy rather than solve the case, Jakeem and Mike may have actually stumbled into solving the case by discovering none other than...the Ultra-humanite, complete in his albino gorilla form. Which explains the growl we heard near the Gambler's trailer. And "the killer has many names?" The Ultra-Humanite jumps bodies. I guess that begs the question of the human figure monitoring everybody unless Humanite is routinely transferring his brain across from a human form to a gorilla form, unless he's teaming-up with somebody (Per Degaton?).

 

[Yojimbo]

I wonder what that picture was about. Were the Mahkents ostracized for their abilities?

I think out of the two, we know who wasn't helping them not getting ostracized...

Jeez, if Mike's bio mom was going to abandon him, at least leave him with his father instead of just straight up dropping him at a shelter. The lady sounds pretty scummy, but I can understand the idea of finding closure, if nothing else.

Mike's mom and Courtney's dad would make a great pair of scumbags.

I'm glad Rick came around and gave a heartfelt speech about how much he cares about everybody even if him being roided out on Miraclo just made it worse.

Yeah, that was a nice moment. Undid by him bursting into the Mahkent mansion. Courtney took too long to tell him truth though. To be fair. I mean, we all knew this was going to be messy.

Who taught Cameron how to fight!? That definitely did not seem like how an amateur would fight given how he was matching Rick blow for blow...and he actually won against fully-powered Hourman. Jeez.

That was a big cheat. Cameron and his grandparents can suddenly put up a fight despite the obvious reasons they shouldn't be able to.

They finally point out how Beth is useless in a fight...just in time to finally give her the ability to fight!

That felt like a lesser cheat to speed up Beth to being on a sorta level field with the others. Eh, whatev at this point. But I was waiting for her to quote Keanu, "I know kung fu."

I was not expecting Artemis to show up out of nowhere. How did she even know they were there!? Although it felt kind of full-circle watching her team-up with Beth after she tried to kill her in season 2.

I assumed Pat told Crusher and he sent Artemis. I guess. Shrug.

I guess things could've been worse since they managed to save Cameron's grandpa and he's advocating for Cameron to not be ruled by hate...but I guess the jury's still out on how he'll react to Courtney, especially after he finds out what really happened to his father.

The grandpa was always the voice of reason.

It's funny that in trying to find Cindy rather than solve the case, Jakeem and Mike may have actually stumbled into solving the case by discovering none other than...the Ultra-humanite, complete in his albino gorilla form. Which explains the growl we heard near the Gambler's trailer. And "the killer has many names?" The Ultra-Humanite jumps bodies. I guess that begs the question of the human figure monitoring everybody unless Humanite is routinely transferring his brain across from a human form to a gorilla form, unless he's teaming-up with somebody (Per Degaton?).

Hey alright, my guess from back in September panned out. It is Ultra-Humanite! Idk about the CG but it's Ultra-Humanite! Exposition dump next week I bet.

But begs the question of where's Cindy. And yeah, the person at the monitors.

 

[Otaku-sempai]

I must have missed something (I haven't seen much of Season 2); how do both of Cameron's grandparents have cold-based powers? Are they both from some small, isolated community where everyone is related to everyone else?

 

[Fone Bone]

Stargirl "Frenemies: Chapter Nine: The Monsters"

It looks like the Ultra-Humanite is the killer and the season's Big Bad. I don't like that it's someone we hadn't met. That's not the proper way to structure a mystery, which is how this season billed itself as.

I think there were individual good elements in the episode, and I found the ending with Cameron's grandfather exhorting him to choose love refreshingly and unexpectedly positive. But I'm calling the episode a failure anyways. And I think really, it's an unacceptable failing.

Regardless of how it turned out, regardless of the mistakes Rick made, Courtney never should have decided to tell Cameron the truth at his spooky mansion where his possibly criminal grandparents are always lurking in the shadows. She should have chosen to take him to a place they both felt comfortable and where they wouldn't be disturbed. And this specific failing makes me give the episode a failing grade because as far as mistakes go, it's not a remotely forgivable one. Why did Courtney make that bad choice? Because a ton of the bad conflict in the climax would not have happened if she hadn't. She deliberately made a bad, stupid decision, to make it easier for the writers to write conflict.

That is bad. That is a failing. If you ask me, I personally believe it is one of the worst writing failings somebody could ever do. A ton of genre fans find that sort of thing acceptable, which is why I've never felt comfortable in those specific fandoms. You guys excuse far too much. You and I both deserve better than stuff like this. We all do. And the first step is to stop pretending it's remotely acceptable. It's not. Your TV is failing you. Don't give it that permission by tacitly approving of something this badly written. It's not fair to you, and frankly, the writers (in this case Geoff Johns) should be ashamed of themselves.

I mentioned there were some good individual elements. I thought Luke Wilson brought his A-Game as Pat talked about his concerns with Mike with Barbara. And him bonding with Crusher was great, as was Barb telling Paula they were friends, and Paula appreciating it because no-one has ever said that to her before. There is a lot of good pathos going on with the background characters in this episode. It does not change the fact that the episode wrote the story poorly, simply because poor writing made the drama easier for them to come up with. That's false drama. That's bad drama. That's unacceptable on any level. **.

 

[Frontier]

I must have missed something (I haven't seen much of Season 2); how do both of Cameron's grandparents have cold-based powers? Are they both from some small, isolated community where everyone is related to everyone else?

I don't think they've explained exactly what they are but they seem to be some kind of mystical ice beings.

 

[Yojimbo]

I don't think they've explained exactly what they are but they seem to be some kind of mystical ice beings.

In the comics, for example, wasn't Ice's clan from Norway? I can't remember if they all had ice powers or just Ice and her brother.

 

[hobbyfan]

Ok, so Cameron's a 3rd generation Icicle. Not too surprising.

And Ultra Humanite is in the mix. Gee, what a shock.

 

[Fone Bone]

I'm thinking more about my complaints about Courtney coming clean at Cameron's spooky house. And I don't think I was quite angry enough. The more I think about it, the more it angers me.

I was operating under the assumption that it was a bad and stupid tactical move for Courtney. And if that's all it was, I could move on. But the reality is, Courtney would want to discuss a tough subject with Cameron in a safe space not because she's a smart tactician. But because she's a real person, and we all subconsciously like to be in familiar surroundings when dealing with tough conversations with people we care about. I object to Courtney going to the spooky mansion, not because it's dumb. But because it is unlike any real-world reaction of any nervous teenage girl.

Geoff Johns wants to do right by his kid sister. He completely forgot Courtney was a woman when he wrote that scene. That is a failing, and I would think a hugely personal one. This plot turn is not something I'm going to get over. It was bad for not just the show and the story, but the characters. Courtney decided not to act like an actual person in crisis because it made Johns' job as a writer easier. I freaking detest that fact, and think Johns should be ashamed of himself for that fact.

 

[Frontier]

I'm thinking more about my complaints about Courtney coming clean at Cameron's spooky house. And I don't think I was quite angry enough. The more I think about it, the more it angers me.

I was operating under the assumption that it was a bad and stupid tactical move for Courtney. And if that's all it was, I could move on. But the reality is, Courtney would want to discuss a tough subject with Cameron in a safe space not because she's a smart tactician. But because she's a real person, and we all subconsciously like to be in familiar surroundings when dealing with tough conversations with people we care about. I object to Courtney going to the spooky mansion, not because it's dumb. But because it is unlike any real-world reaction of any nervous teenage girl.

Geoff Johns wants to do right by his kid sister. He completely forgot Courtney was a woman when he wrote that scene. That is a failing, and I would think a hugely personal one. This plot turn is not something I'm going to get over. It was bad for not just the show and the story, but the characters. Courtney decided not to act like an actual person in crisis because it made Johns' job as a writer easier. I freaking detest that fact, and think Johns should be ashamed of himself for that fact.

I guess it depends on ones' definition of a "safe space," because from Cameron's perspective it probably was the safest spot for him.

 

[Fone Bone]

What you are saying SOUNDS right. But it's not. Cameron is clearly afraid of his grandparents. And everybody knows it. That house is the furthest thing from his safe space. His safe space is the art room at school. Even if I conceded that maybe Court was taking HIS feelings into account before her own, it doesn't remotely track.

 

[Yojimbo]

November 9, 2022
"Frenemies - Chapter Ten: The Killer" - Episode 36
Courtney and the team regroup after a dramatic confrontation leaves battle lines clearly drawn. A terrifying discovery made by Mike and Jakeem forces Pat and Sylvester to go on high alert. Finally, Paula and Larry take matters into their own hands to make things right.

 

[Frontier]

The Crocks' continuing to be Family Goals. Also Artemis finally appears outside her suit. Although in hindsight focusing so much on them and their domestic bliss at the beginning set up that things were going to take a tragic turn in the end.

I only just noticed Crusher's gym logo is his Sportsmaster mask.

They have a working payphone! But of course they don't have the coins necessary to use it.

Oh hey, Sylvester's finally back in the flesh! He's still got his temper and is a bit too angry for his own good, but it seems like he's genuinely trying to be more reasonable or listen to reason more. Although that was, like, the most inappropriate time for a fist bump Sly.

Rick is at a point in his addiction phase where everyone realizes he has a problem but he won't do anything about it. They might need to stage an intervention and take the hourglass away from him.

So Cindy is trying to hunt down Ultra-Humanite to prove her innocence. Although I think she's really punching above her weight.

Paula teaching Barbara how to shoot a crossbow reminded me of when Ollie was teaching Barry how to shoot a bow in Elseworlds.

Thunderbolt just mentioned Batman!? Does that confirm Batman exists in this universe in some form? Or just the Thunderbolt being omniscient in an irreverent way?

"My grandparents aren't evil!" Well your grandma murdered your art teacher and they bother covered it up which is pretty evil in my book. At least he was willing to admit that his dad wasn't always a good guy and Courtney takes the fall for killing Jordan because he's less likely to kill her than her younger brother.

"They murdered my son!" I mean, in context I'd say it was more self-defense because he was also trying to kill them all at the time.

Oh yeah, we hadn't seen the Crocks, other than Artemis, suited up all season. Because they were trying to give up their costumed villain identities.

Oh hey, they mentioned Dolores Winters! The most memorable part of Ultra-Humanite beyond his albino gorilla body. Also just pointing out he basically stole her award. Yeesh.

I guess I respect Courtney's willingness to team-up with murderers. Although I guess they still don't know about the art teacher.

The Crocks' first mistake was going into a sewer without calling in backup or without their gear out. Rookie mistake. But dang it if their deaths while professing their love for each other didn't hit hard. I feel so terrible for Artemis.

So Ultra-Humanite was a bit of a red herring because the true killer is...Icicle Sr.! Back in the flesh! And ice! I had my suspicious Jordan would come back at some point, but it feels fitting that the original main villain is also the final villain of the show. It makes me wonder if he and Ultra-Humanite are working together or if it's totally separate villain plots. And just when it seemed like grandma was about to bury the hatchet...

 

[Yojimbo]

Icicle is alive?! Maybe Ultra was in stasis in the Etter Lane lab and Jordan awakened him. I guess he set Ultra-Humanite loose to off Gambler while he regenerated in his sewer hideout?

Too bad we won't get to see this Earth's Batman.

 

[Fone Bone]

Stargirl "Frenemies: Chapter Ten: The Killer"

That was a VERY strong week, but as I was watching it, I felt there was a flaw to the arc that was bugging me. It didn't ruin things for me, but it bugged me. But what's great is the ending means that specific thing I worried about might actually work out okay.

First off, I love that Crusher calls Pat and his family "their people". And the show has done the legwork to make the audience care about the Crocks and invest in their reform. Their deaths are tragic, and weirdly beautiful for that reason. What I think is fascinating about the Crocks, (and you can tell me if this is wrong), is that they are far more invested in their reformation than the good guys are. Forget Sylvester, while Barb has grown close to Paula, the truth is Crusher makes Pat a little uncomfortable. He accepts the idea that Crusher says he wants to live a normal crime-free life, but his reactions to Crusher's enthusiastic buddy-buddying suggests part of him thinks it's a con. And the part that doesn't is uncomfortable anyways. What I loved about the Crocks is either that prejudice on behalf of Pat and the Whitmores never registered, or it never bothered them, or made them think less of them. And I love and will miss the Crocks because they were far more open and genuine with their feelings than many of the heroes.

Look at Cameron. Courtney couldn't even tell him the truth about who supposedly killed Icicle. And Cameron suggests maybe his dad was not the best guy, but he was his dad, and Courtney took him away from him. And regardless of the phony drama the show loves cooking up between the characters, that element is basic, raw, and totally relatable.

The thing that bugged me was remedied by Icicle Sr. being alive, the potential killer of the Gambler, and possibly the Bigger Bad than the Ultra-Humanite. My concern in the episode was the elder McKents leaning towards learning to forgive Courtney and her family for what happened. And I was like "Are they seriously positioning these people for a redemption arc with the heroes? Am I the ONLY one who remembers and is bugged by the fact that the grandmother murdered Cameron's beloved art teacher for no reason JUST last week?" And Icicle being back suggests complicated family matters are ahead, and that doesn't seem like a thing the show is going to ignore after all. After all this, it would be dramatic malpractice to do so.

I think it's important for us to see Jakeem and Mike relating to and talking to Thunderbolt. It's makes Thunderbolt's trickery a lot more forgivable to understand a little bit more about his laid-back personality. What his friendship with the boys says is that as much of a hindrance as he is, it's not due to actual malice on his end. Which helps a lot for me.

For the record, I think it's wonderful that it's Sylvester who suggests the McKents are probably being set up. Great character growth for him there.

So yeah, as strong week. In another world, I would complain about the show killing off the Crocks, because they are an asset to the show, and now the show doesn't have them anymore. But knowing this is going to wind up the last season makes that specific complaint irrelevant. If the show had lasted seven seasons I would have approved of that beautiful death in the final one. I would have been otherwise miffed if it weren't for the fact that the show HAS been canceled. It feels appropriate now, as much as it saddens me.

So, yeah, that was a damn good week. ****1/2.

 

[Yojimbo]

It's "Mahkents," Fone Bone.

 

[Fone Bone]

My reviews are messy @Yojimbo . Always have been, always will be. Spelling errors are common and expected. Sometimes I'll fix them, sometimes I won't. In this case, I don't think it matters. So I won't.

I am a crappy speller and I refuse to apologize for that. My writing is clear enough that people get my meaning. If the presentation is sloppy, that's just the way I am.

 

[Yojimbo]

November 16, 2022
"Frenemies - Chapter Eleven: The Haunting" - Episode 37
As Courtney, Sylvester and the JSA plot to take down a major threat, the arrival of someone from their past sends shock waves through the town.

 

[Frontier]

Man, so nostalgic watching the season 1 finale again! Sir Justin!

To be honest...it really felt in bad form that they just left the chunks of ice on the ground and never did anything about it. I guess if they had (the kind of follow up Sylvester was talking about) this would never have happened.

Y'know, despite everything, the Mahkent reunion felt real and genuine. Like they really love each other despite how monstrous Jordan and the grandmother can be.

So is the idea that Ultra-Humanite wrecked the trailer and Icicle was the one who finished the Gambler off? We still don't know why the Gambler had to die unless he stumbled into what Jordan's real plan is.

It's only in an episode where Rick sits things out that I realize the JSA is pretty much all girls, not counting the adults or the Young All Stars. Also that Courtney has used the staff/suited up in, maybe, 3-4 episodes of this entire season.

Even if you think the Crocks deserved what happened to them...Artemis didn't deserve to lose her parents, especially not like that.

Poor Pat lost his gym buddy and Barbara lost her bestie...and then there's the double-punch that the man who tried to kill her and wanted to get up her skirt is alive and well and back at her work.

Ah, I see. Jordan is using Courtney's big ethos this season of second chances and people being able to redeem themselves to justify his own redemption story (self-defense? What a joke) and get in Courtney's good graces. Granted Cameron also had a good point that she can preach accountability all she wants but they basically let bygones be bygones with the Crocks and Cindy despite what they had done. I mean, they're right about Jordan, but still.

Sylvester's character development got upended by probably the worst person to show back up in Blue Valley. Like, how else would he react to his archenemy and killer coming back and advocating for peace? Of course he would be back on the warpath. And I don't think anything is going to stop him.

Not even the ISA wanted the Ultra-Humanite? I guess he'd be harder to manage than Grundy.

That actually was a pretty smart plan to neutralize Icicle had he not gained the need for his powers to literally survive.

I guess Cindy isn't ready to work with Courtney yet and is having no luck with the Ultra-Humanite, so she's hedging her bets with the Young All-Stars. Also, clean thoughts Jakeem.

Barbara really is everyone's mom. Especially now that Paula, the only actual good mother in Blue Valley, is dead.

I think that's the first time we had a direct conversation between Courtney and Jordan that didn't involve them trying to kill each other. Good stuff!

Wow, I'm amazed Yolanda was able to have a brief conversation with her mom without her mom immediately berating or hanging up on her.

Icicle and the Ultra-Humanite are working together...which pretty much everyone could see coming. But what are they after?

 

[Yojimbo]

I love that Barbara is still the heart of the show.

I hope Jakeem and Thunderbolt come up with a wish that cures Cindy of the reptilian DNA.

I hope Court refuses Sylvester because him blowing up again in the wake of Jordan's return feels like they're telegraphing he's going to die if he goes after Icicle. But uh, I feel bad for Pat. He's basically trapped in a toxic relationship with Sylvester. Sylvester loses it and yells, Pat tries to reason with him, Sylvester promises to do better, he backpedals, repeat.

Still don't get why they killed Gambler. Because he found the hidden camera feed and unknowingly recorded something that would reveal their true plan?

I still think there's some crazy twist coming like the story Jordan told was a lie and the truth is Ultra-Humanite reconstintuted Jordan's body, put his brain in Jordan's body, and the white gorilla is now just a henchman (like in the comics sometimes) and the final tag will be Humanite waking up in Sylvester's body and his master plan is to take the Cosmic Staff and use it to become immortal.

 

[Frontier]

I love that Barbara is still the heart of the show.

She's everybody's mom .

I hope Jakeem and Thunderbolt come up with a wish that cures Cindy of the reptilian DNA.

To be honest I'm kind of surprised they didn't think of that .

I hope Court refuses Sylvester because him blowing up again in the wake of Jordan's return feels like they're telegraphing he's going to die if he goes after Icicle. But uh, I feel bad for Pat. He's basically trapped in a toxic relationship with Sylvester. Sylvester loses it and yells, Pat tries to reason with him, Sylvester promises to do better, he backpedals, repeat.

I think it's just a byproduct of the fact that Pat's been all Sylvester's really had since he was a kid, and most of that was Pat just having to play sidekick to Sylvester. Sylvester never really grew up while Pat still remained the adult in the relationship.

Still don't get why they killed Gambler. Because he found the hidden camera feed and unknowingly recorded something that would reveal their true plan?

Yeah, I think the main mystery now is what Jordan/Ultra-Humanite are after and why they had to kill Gambler.

I still think there's some crazy twist coming like the story Jordan told was a lie and the truth is Ultra-Humanite reconstintuted Jordan's body, put his brain in Jordan's body, and the white gorilla is now just a henchman (like in the comics sometimes) and the final tag will be Humanite waking up in Sylvester's body and his master plan is to take the Cosmic Staff and use it to become immortal.

That's crazy enough to be a genuine Ultra-Humanite plot .