The Spectacular Spider-Man "The Uncertainty Principle" Talkback (Spoilers)

[lumpmoose]

And BTW, Harry can't be the Goblin. Why? Because the official synopsis for this episode says that Spiderman learns the Goblin's "true" identity in this episode. Which implies that Harry isn't the real Goblin.

I was thinking about that during the episode. And putting "true" in quotes may relate to Goblin's line:

We all wear masks, Spider-Man. But which one is real, the one that hides your face or the one that is your face?

He could be arguing that the Green Goblin's "true" identity is the Green Goblin and is closer to his true form than Harry ever was.

 

[lukecage]

this show is far better than any of the previous spider-man cartoon's in my opinion.

 

[ROBOTRON]

Harry is not the Goblin, he is the vessel for the Goblin. One body, two souls. We don't know what the Goblin's plans are, not what Harry's are ('cause he pretty much doesn't have any).

Perhaps, but when a assumed level-headed person drinks alcohol or uses drugs and commits a crime (in this case, Goblin formula)...usually that person is punished...not the other soul.

Harry is the Green Goblin under the influence of an addictive chemical...and has started committing crimes. He alone bears the responsibility of his actions, not the Goblin. At the very least, he may forgo the crimes by pleading temporary insanity and forced into detox.

 

[lumpmoose]

And what about the bombs? Who made the bombs?

Harry could have made or retrofitted them from existing OsCorp components. The globulin supposedly makes him an A student. It's about as plausible as Peter inventing his own web fluid.

 

[Anarky]

Watching these GG eps have really given me a new respect for the Goblin.

When I started reading Spidey comics, Venom was the arch-nemesis. I understand the Goblin's place in Spidey lore but he never was a major player in the era I read.

In this series, I walk way w/ the comparison that Green Goblin is like a hybrid Batman-Joker villain. He's got the wit and insanity of Mistah J and all the gadgets and resources of Batman/Bruce Wayne. That's as dangerous a combination as one could face.

The foundry battle as well as the climactic combat outside the foundry were just amazing. As for the grand reveal, MY spidey sense says there's more here than meets the eye. I suppose that will have to wait until next season. For now: BRING ON THE SYMBIOTE!!!

I've heard the Sinister Six will be making an appearance therefore the symbiote arrives just in time because Spidey will need such as boost to face the likes of Doctor Octopus, Shocker, Sandman, Rhino, Electro, & the Vulture. Fighting six rougues at once AND bad P.R. from the Bugle might be what causes Peter to "hulk" out and beome Dark Spidey.

+: I liked the shuttle drama as well as the interplay between Tombstone & Hammerhead. The Halloween Festival had fun touches as well:

1. Black Cat cameo (though likely not the REAL Black Cat)
2. Flash, Rand, Kong, & Brown as cheerleaders (flashback to Revenge of the Nerds)
3. Flash stuffed his costume w/squeek toys (you can hear them when MJ pushes his off)
4. And of course, when Pete drops in on Gwen IN COSTUME! Fun banter between Pete and Flash. "Don't worry Flash, you fill out your costume well too!" I sense a taste of Marty McFly vs. Biff whenever these two clash.

 

[Dogbert]

I've really got to give it to the producers; they kept us all guess about the Green Goblin's identity until the very end... and beyond. The Goblin's appearances do match Harry's previous blackouts, so I'm willing to go along with the outcome at face value. It's a pretty far stretch at this point to argue that Norman was the Goblin and the villain-ness was somehow passed on to Harry without his even knowing it. Norman was and is acting suspicious, to be sure, but that's easily explained by his connections to the Big Man.

Anyone else catch the squeaking noise Flash's fake breasts made when MJ pushed him away? Pure awesomeness...

At this point the only thing I'll give Spider-Man TAS over this series is more content. If SS-M makes it past 26 episodes (and assuming it doesn't jump the shark, and I have faith in Weisman that it won't), it will certainly become my favorite Spidey series. If you exclude the handicap S-M:TAS gets from its lengthy run, then SS-M is definitely in the lead as well. After numerous Marvel & DC cartoon series I skipped (S-M: TNAS, FF:WGH, LoS, etc.), it's great to have faith in a series again. If only the network execs see it the same way...

 

[Spider-Man]

There's really nothing new I can add about this episode because everything has already been said. Green Goblin is really cool in this series and I like how it's handled. I'm still unsure if Harry was Green Goblin. It does work out but I have a feeling that this show still has a surprise left for us concerning the Goblin's identity. I just don't think we've heard the last on this and knowing Weisman he still has a few tricks up his sleeve concerning who the Green Goblin is. Another brilliant episode!

 

[GregX]

"The Uncertainty Principle"
*** SPECTACULAR SPOILERS ***

I loved this episode.

Very good title, as curve balls continue to be thrown at the audience. The mystery of the Green Goblin's identity is far from over. Well, after re-watching "Catalysts" and "Reaction" over again before watching this I am more convinced than ever that Harry is not the Green Goblin. Either he's been brainwashed or Norman has the Chameleon (who is showing up in the next episode) standing in for him as an alibi. But I'll get to that later.

Nice to finally see Hammerhead in action. Yes, this is why he's Tombstone's enforcer. But, nope, he's no match for the Green Goblin... that's why he's Spider-Man's arch-nemesis.

I loved scene with the Goblin and Tombstone. Just watching the two most dangerous characters in the series go at it like that is priceless. You can see why Hammerhead respects Tombstone so much. The Goblin is arguably more dangerous, but Tombstone commands respect just as much as fear.

It wouldn't be Halloween without costumes, and is that the Black Cat I see? Nice. Mary Jane shows up dressed as a sexy vampire. Liz shows up dressed as a Johnny Depp Fan Girl. Gwen... doesn't even have time to get into a costume because she is too busy worrying about Harry. Poor Gwen, when I see her, I think to myself that she is the only sane person in an insane world. "Some one is getting the look!"

I've been waiting to see Flash dressed as a cheerleader, but I did not expect the rest of the football team to be joining him. Way to show unity, guys. Flash seemed to like having boobs a little too much. So, how long until Rand tells Sally where she can stick it?

I loved Jameson in this episode. People have complained about him being two dimensional, but I never saw it. Hopefully this shut them up. His concern for his son's life was touching. I like this reasoning for his hatred for Spider-Man in this universe. He can't stand to see the spotlight stolen from his son. Is it rational? Not really. Is it understandable? Yes.

"Trap?" "Trap!" Someone's been watching "Serenity".

The fight scene at the end of the episode was stunning. A tip of the hat to everyone involved. Though this borders on cliche, you could feel the heat. I'd say it would be hard to top this one, but I said the same after Spidey's fight with the Lizard.

The final scene at the Osborn residence was... great. Norman is such a manipulative bastard, and I really felt for Harry. But this is the finest case of "the writers are trying to trick you" that I have ever seen. Now, Harry is taking a leave of absence. I hope we see him again soon.

Harry as the Green Goblin just does not add up.
* When the Goblin stole the tech-flight glider from OsCorp, it didn't have the bat-head designed to fire pumpkin bombs and extend a spear on it yet. Harry does not have the technical know-how to add on a feature like that. Norman does. Or the expertise to add that Inhibitor cannon to it. Harry's a moron.
* If Harry were the Green Goblin, he would have attacked the Fall Formal instead of going after Tombstone.
* How would Harry even have access to the Globulin Green in the first place?
* Why would Harry attempt to kill Octavius? Norman knew Otto was a liability, Hammerhead said so in "The Invisible Hand". Norman berated Otto for being a weak man. Then he dressed up as the Goblin so he would have an alibi to show Hammerhead.
* The Green Goblin and Norman Osborn both had the same safety key for Otto's experiment.
* The Big Man was only ever referred to as "Mr. Lincoln" by Norman once and that was in the underground lab while Rhino was being created. Harry could not have overheard that.
* Norman Osborn just so happens to have a secret chamber, which we never saw the inside of. Where's Harry keeping the glider and equipment... not under his bed. For that matter, stealing one or two vials of Globulin Green, I can buy... but we've seen Harry drink from too many.
* Norman's knowing smirk at the end of "Reaction" about unmasking the Goblin before it's too late.
* Peter tipped his hand, told the Goblin he figured out who he was. The Goblin knew Spidey would be coming to the Osborn residence.
* Harry in "Goblin mode" didn't admit to anything except taking the drug. To be the son Norman always wanted. A straight A student and a star athlete.
* Norman is thrown twenty feet up a wall by Harry and is uninjured.
* And it was Norman himself who rationalized it all at the end (a very rehearsed sounding explanation). Then offered to take he fall.

No, Harry was set up. By his own father.

Spectacular episode.

 

[Movie06]

I knew Harry was the Green Goblin from the get go.

 

[ROBOTRON]

"The Uncertainty Principle"
Body of text

Great points, GregX. Food for thought. It seemed pretty clear Harry was GG, but after your post, now I'm thinking otherwise.

 

[Gokou Ruri]

So ends the Green Goblin arc.

I agree. I'm still not convinced it's Harry, I'm still holding to the fact it's all one huge scheme by Norman to save himself. I guess we won't find out until next season, though, or whenever the Goblin comes back.

Liz and MJ oogling Peter was pretty funny, especially Liz's "You can web me up anytime, Petey" line

 

[R-Taco]

Hey Greg, you made one mistake:

* The Green Goblin and Norman Osborn both had the same safety key for Otto's experiment.

Otto left the key on the panel when he took it out, and the Goblin just picked it up and put it in.

 

[creepers keeper]

does MJ know Peter's secret?

 

[GregX]

Hey Greg, you made one mistake:

* The Green Goblin and Norman Osborn both had the same safety key for Otto's experiment.

Otto left the key on the panel when he took it out, and the Goblin just picked it up and put it in.

Which Norman used minutes later.

 

[lumpmoose]

Great points, GregX. Food for thought. It seemed pretty clear Harry was GG, but after your post, now I'm thinking otherwise.

Ditto. I thought it was all straight-forward, but I shouldn't have doubted Weisman and his beloved 'layers'.

 

[R-Taco]

Which Norman used minutes later.

Oh, I misread. I thought you said Otto and the Goblin, not Norman.

When I finished the episode, I had no questions about the Golbin's identity. But after reading some of the stuff in this discussion, I'm not so sure. I'll have to re-watch this one with the mindset that Norman is the Goblin, that the Goblin in the lab break-in was the Chameleon under the employ of Norman, and that Norman dressed up an unconscious Harry in the Goblin suit just before Spidey arrived.

 

[lumpmoose]

and that Norman dressed up an unconscious Harry in the Goblin suit just before Spidey arrived.

And broke his leg? Yeesh

 

[GregX]

Oh, I misread. I thought you said Otto and the Goblin, not Norman.

When I finished the episode, I had no questions about the Golbin's identity. But after reading some of the stuff in this discussion, I'm not so sure. I'll have to re-watch this one with the mindset that Norman is the Goblin, that the Goblin in the lab break-in was the Chameleon under the employ of Norman, and that Norman dressed up an unconscious Harry in the Goblin suit just before Spidey arrived.

Actually, I think the Norman Osborn we saw at OsCorp may have been the Chameleon. The security guard did seem surprised that he used the front door.

 

[Captain Highwind]

I laughed when Peter jumped down in front of Gwen. He's been getting extra careless lately, and I'm wondering if the gas residue from the pumpkin bombs is starting to affect his spider-sense. (Although it may be too early for that unless Norman has really studied how his powers work).

...If that's the case, I'm wondering if Pete taking his mask off for that moment at the OsCorp building will have any consequence.

 

[Reg]

I was so happy when Rand raised his voice at Sally. I so hope he dumps her.